Useless front brakes

Hi all

I have a '93 164 Cloverleaf 24v and, as with my last 164, i find the braking no where near up to the rest of the car!

Does anybody know if a set of Brembo 4 pots from either a 166 or a GTA (147/156) will fit the 164 struts? I am pretty sure that the disc's are the same.

The car is running 18" wheels so i can't see any problems with clearance etc. Any ideas?

I know i could make a plate for the fixings, just wondering if someones has any knowledge about lug holes etc.

Thanks all and MERRY XMAS

Stock 156 discs apparently are the same. Don't know about GTA discs however.

Are you still running the totally stock setup?

I'm still saving up the $$$ for my brake upgrade, which is only going to be a very mild slotted/crossdrilled DBA front disc, stock rear disc & EBC greenstuff pads all around. Changing your fluid to something fresh & upspec may also give a bit of improvement if it hasn't been changed in a while.

Do something soonish if you think it's below par. Going fast is easy, slowing down is not...

..does anyone reckon braided brake lines would make much differernce?

btw, any pics of the cloverleaf on the 18"s..?

Originally Posted by mick164

..does anyone reckon braided brake lines would make much differernce?

btw, any pics of the cloverleaf on the 18"s..?

Yes, s/s lines nearly always make an improvement; they greatly improve the ability to regulate brake pressure by pedal feel rather than by how quickly the car is slowing. Many track day people say fast road pads like ferrodo 2500, good fluid and stainless steel lines are the only upgrades they need.

Even if you decide to upgrade the disks, callipers etc, you will use the same brake lines so there is no disadvantage in trying that first.

I recommend you by the brake line parts and assemble them yourself, just make very sure you get the hose properly secured; there are good instructions on the web somewhere, or just ask the shop. Most motor race car prep shops sell the parts a reasonalble prices.

Best wishes,

Stevo

Thanks all some far

I have been preparing rally cars for a while with my brother, who is restoring a 164 'Leaf . I would agree that s/s hoses are a good start and would agree that they are easy to make. Talk to rally design for the parts they are quite cheap.

I am running the stock set up at present, however i know the calipers are not that good, they are up to standard operation but they never were that good to me even when i drove a new one all those years ago!!

If anyone has a set of the Brembo's from either car, some measurements would be fab. I am sure everyone would be interested to know if they fit?

I will get some pictures on very soon.

Thanks

Thought I'd already posted this, but seems to have disappeared. There are various brake upgrade bits here

Hi all

I have just got my hands on a complete set of 147 GTA calipers and disc's for a good price. I will let you all know how easy/difficult the conversion is and post some pictures of the various stages.

MMMhhh bright red with Alfa Romeo on them! Should not only stop on its nose but also look great behind my Graphite grey wheels!!

Taking some pictures of the acr today and will posty them tonight

To the garage. . . . . . . .

Moynesey

I know it's 2 years since you posted that, but do you know if they were 305 or 330 GTA discs/calipers? And how did the fitting go?

If he got them for a good price I would say 305 - Alfa were carrying out the recall uprades to 330 around this time so loads of old 305 sets would be available.

Moynesey

Have you got any piccies of those wheels ??

BTW Your PM box is full..

Originally Posted by moynesey

Hi all

I have just got my hands on a complete set of 147 GTA calipers and disc's for a good price. I will let you all know how easy/difficult the conversion is and post some pictures of the various stages.

MMMhhh bright red with Alfa Romeo on them! Should not only stop on its nose but also look great behind my Graphite grey wheels!!

Taking some pictures of the acr today and will posty them tonight

To the garage. . . . . . . .

Moynesey

Originally Posted by moynesey

Hi all

I have a '93 164 Cloverleaf 24v and, as with my last 164, i find the braking no where near up to the rest of the car!

Does anybody know if a set of Brembo 4 pots from either a 166 or a GTA (147/156) will fit the 164 struts? I am pretty sure that the disc's are the same.

The car is running 18" wheels so i can't see any problems with clearance etc. Any ideas?

I know i could make a plate for the fixings, just wondering if someones has any knowledge about lug holes etc.

Thanks all and MERRY XMAS

Here is what I would do before spending a fortune on a brake kit. The 24V's came with a much better brake system than the older cars.
I would either skim the rotors and use a good pad to break them in. Stainless steel is a great option and works well. Use ATE GOLD/Super blue, they are the same. That should take care of some of the heat issues.
Make sure the caliper piston is moving in and out smoothly, lubricate it with brake fluid. Seals are good and not torn.
Lubricate the caliper pins.

Pads, use a ceramic pad if you can find one. The smoother/finer the material on the pad surface the better the pad.
I see no need to upgrade to a larger caliper. I think these cars stop very well, it is all a matter of maintenance and high quality components.

I run the complete 24V booster/MC, calipers, rotors, carriers and all on my 12V QV and the braking has never been better. All new parts.

Bleed system properly, break in pads and rotors slowly for about 200miles before getting on it and I am sure your braking will be much much better.

Jason

Originally Posted by AlfissimoInternational

Here is what I would do before spending a fortune on a brake kit. The 24V's came with a much better brake system than the older cars.
I would either skim the rotors and use a good pad to break them in. Stainless steel is a great option and works well. Use ATE GOLD/Super blue, they are the same. That should take care of some of the heat issues.
Make sure the caliper piston is moving in and out smoothly, lubricate it with brake fluid. Seals are good and not torn.
Lubricate the caliper pins.

Pads, use a ceramic pad if you can find one. The smoother/finer the material on the pad surface the better the pad.
I see no need to upgrade to a larger caliper. I think these cars stop very well, it is all a matter of maintenance and high quality components.

I run the complete 24V booster/MC, calipers, rotors, carriers and all on my 12V QV and the braking has never been better. All new parts.

Bleed system properly, break in pads and rotors slowly for about 200miles before getting on it and I am sure your braking will be much much better.

Jason

Jason,

Just found this board and am glad you're on it also. You're my 164 Guro. Any recommendations on pads for my 24V 164Q now that I put on the "big rugs" and can't get the ABS to engage on dry pavement with a panic stop from 60 MPH (clutch in). This tells me that the tires have a lot more traction than the brakes can provide.

Tom

Originally Posted by peglegtom

Jason,

Just found this board and am glad you're on it also. You're my 164 Guro. Any recommendations on pads for my 24V 164Q now that I put on the "big rugs" and can't get the ABS to engage on dry pavement with a panic stop from 60 MPH (clutch in). This tells me that the tires have a lot more traction than the brakes can provide.

Tom

I like Rotex, AXXIS ceramic, ATE, Ferodo. Stay away from EBC. Junk!

Rotex are great, stop on a dime, no black dust.

They clamp great in cold and hot situations. It is a semi metallic pad but it has a mixture of many metals and ceramic to take the heat well. Great thing about the 24V is the thicker rotors. That takes and removes the heat much better than the older models with a 5 mm thinner rotor.

I know the tires you have are top of the line. Michelin PS2's. They are going to stop the car like mad. Remember that if the ABS is not engaging with the new tire package, that is a pretty good thing. Means that you don't need it. There is no slippage read by the abs sensors, therefore no need to engage it. Your stopping distance has most likely been reduced by a 20 ft. +/- (6m)

Welcome here too Tom.

Jason

Originally Posted by AlfissimoInternational

I like Rotex, AXXIS ceramic, ATE, Ferodo. Stay away from EBC. Junk!

Rotex are great, stop on a dime, no black dust.

They clamp great in cold and hot situations. It is a semi metallic pad but it has a mixture of many metals and ceramic to take the heat well. Great thing about the 24V is the thicker rotors. That takes and removes the heat much better than the older models with a 5 mm thinner rotor.

I know the tires you have are top of the line. Michelin PS2's. They are going to stop the car like mad. Remember that if the ABS is not engaging with the new tire package, that is a pretty good thing. Means that you don't need it. There is no slippage read by the abs sensors, therefore no need to engage it. Your stopping distance has most likely been reduced by a 20 ft. +/- (6m)

Welcome here too Tom.

Jason

All I was saying is that now the limiting factor to maximum braking performance is the brakes and not the tires (or tyres on this British forum?) BTW, my SHO is the same way. The ABS will not engage on dry pavement. But as far as I know, no big brakes (rotors or calipers) are readily available for 164's. So that would leave the pads and possibly lesser items such as SS hoses.

As an aside, the lug nuts you sent with the Ronal's work great on my SHO, and they were getting tacky on that car. So now I have a set of great looking lug nuts on the SHO.