164 Alignment Settings

[Alfaomegatron]

Seen a couple of messages on 164 related threads and they seem to be heading towards the question of how best to set up the suspension geometry on the 164 s.

So for reference, what are people currently running and for those that have recently had wheel alignment dialed in, what settings were selected by the workshops employed? How did the handling change with these settings?

To get started:

Alfa 164 Technical Service Bulletin 21.94.01
Information: Alignment Specification for 164
Models: 1991 thru 1995 all 164 models
Date: 10/14/94

The alignment specifications for all model year 164's have been revised and simplified.

1991-1995 Alfa Romeo 164 ALL

Front Camber -1.1 degrees to -2.4 degrees
Front Caster +1.0 degrees to +2.6 degrees
Front Total Toe 0mm to -2mm

Rear Camber +0.1 degrees to -1.8 degrees
Rear Total Toe +4mm to +6mm

This TSB superceeded all previous publications including specifications found in service manuals.

[Avocet]

Can't be much help here. I'm afraid. I've never measured camber on mine. I'd be amazed if the fronts were anywhere near -1 degree, never mind - 2.4, but tht's based on nothing more scientific than just "looking at it"!

I run front toe at between 0.5 and 1mm total toe-in. It doesn't turn-in that nicely, but at least I can afford to keep it in tyres! (Just for curiosity, I've actually got the spare on the front passenger side at present. This is a 22 year old car and the spare wheel is like new - never been fitted! Needless to say, it hasn't got much grip)!

Caster settings seem very low too? I've had cars in the past with 5+ degrees of caster - one with 11 degrees!

I've probably got too much rear camber because the springs have sagged (soon to be rectified!)

I've never run anything like 4-6mm rear total toe - can't even believe that's a real figure!!! SURELY nobody sets a car up like that???? I got my dad a DIY tracking gauge thingee for Christmas, so when I do my suspension rebuild, I might borrow it and see what I've got. In the past, just using string to track the front wheels, the rears haven't looked to have had much more than about 0.5mm per side.

[TomX19]

Mine had -0°46 (n/s) and -0°31 (o/s) toe-in on the rear and was shredding the back tyres. It's now 0°24 (n/s) and 0°25 (o/s). Front is -2°15 (n/s) and -1°53 (o/s).

No idea what any of this is in millimetres, as my report from the Hunter alignment machine is all in degrees. My cambers and casters are within the limits you posted.

Not only that but I've got a -0°01 thrust angle!!

[mick164]

..my '97 TB was set at 0 toe up front the last time and it was very nice. No idea about the other settings, but plenty of toe-in at the rear would be normal alright. (my car is on 225/45 17s by the way.. )

[Alfaomegatron]

Hmmmm

The Tech bulletin's calibration in mm is clearly causing confusion not least with us owners, as most Alignment shops are setting up and recording in angles of degrees and minutes.

Called in at Ancaster Alfa Romeo locally and they confirmed that the Tech Service Bulletin would have been followed and prescribed when they engaged any third parties to set up the cars suspension after work or on delivery.
Headed across to Sanspeed who are a respected tuner/motorsport workshop for their thoughts on the question of in particular the Rear Total Toe. Looking at the TSB they commented on how wide all the parameters were but would not be drawn on the Rear Total Toe.
As I was getting nowhere, called up Elite Direct who transformed the handling on my Mk1 Golf last year. They supplied the following values which they would recommend and are from the "Hunter" Db.

Front Camber -1 degree 19"
Rear Camber -1 degree 15"
Front Total Toe -0 degree 09"
Rear Total Toe -0 degree 45"

These correspond with TomX19's new Rear Total Toe setting and confirm Mick164's almost parallel Front Total Toe setting.

Whilst Tom is clearly very pleased with his thrust angle has this been achieved by setting the Front Total Toe in
at -4 degrees 18". Tom how stable does the car feel when you turn in on a fast bend?

[Avocet]

If it helps any, on a standard 15" 164 wheel, 15 minutes (0 degrees 15' or 0.25 degrees) of total toe-in per side means the front edges of the wheel rims are 3.58mm closer together than the rear edges of the rims, or put another way, the leading edge of each front wheel is just under 1mm closer to the centreline of the car than if the wheels were set parallel.

30 minutes of toe (0 degrees 30' or 0.5 degrees) of toe-in per side, means the front edges of the wheel rims are 7.16mm closer together than the rear edges of the rims, or 1.8mm closer to the centreline of the car than if the wheels were set parallel.