Buying a 166

[niallmoran]

Hi guys

Just looking for a spot of advice on buying an alfa 166 - what things should i be looking out for on these beasties? I'm looking out for a cheap(ish) 2.0 TS and i've seen a couple come up on ebay but i'm not really sure what i should be looking out for eg cam belt change interval etc.

Cheers
Niall

Originally Posted by niallmoran

Hi guys

Just looking for a spot of advice on buying an alfa 166 - what things should i be looking out for on these beasties? I'm looking out for a cheap(ish) 2.0 TS and i've seen a couple come up on ebay but i'm not really sure what i should be looking out for eg cam belt change interval etc.

Cheers
Niall

Hello Niall,
You have probably heard of CP Garage Services,If not contact Euan Colbron he is always happy to give out advice.Cheers Pat

[Mike M]

Originally Posted by pat

Hello Niall,
You have probably heard of CP Garage Services,If not contact Euan Colbron he is always happy to give out advice.Cheers Pat

My advice on buying any car but specifically an Alfa is this:

Has the car been well looked after/serviced? Evidence of detailed servicing and repairs and basically someone not skimping minor problems shows the car has been treated as it should. Make sure there is proper documented evidence of oil/filter changes and all the sort of stuff you would expect from a well loved car.

Check tires properly, look for uneven wear to both the inner and outer edge of the tyres (a properly aligned Alfa with good suspension bushes etc should not wear unevenly).

Not a great deal to worry about on the TS engine as it is pretty much bullet proof but check for rattle on the top end as the cam variator is known to be a weak spot (it will probably sound a bit like a diesel if it is broken).

I am pretty sure the 166 cambelt interval is 72k miles (check this as I may be wrong, see below).

If there is even the slightest hint of rust on a 166 then it may well have been involved in a prang and not repaired properly.

If you buy from a non trade source, you can ask lots of questions because the majority of Alfa owners tend to be somewhat fanatical about the cars, if buying from trade, assume they know nothing and be very careful.

If you see a car you like but have doubts, walk away.

The following info is from another sire regarding recalls done, I can't vouch for accuracy and they may well only concern V6 models:

"30-4-2001: Problem of loss of hydraulic power assistance to steering. All RHD 1,900 166s imported to UK by April 2001 recalled to have oil cooler and refill system replaced. September 2002: TSB issued to change timing belts and tensioners at 36,000 miles rather than 72,000 miles."

Good Luck

[niallmoran]

Cheers guys - i'll keep all this in mind as i hunt....probably best to stay clear of "bargains" on ebay i'd imagine.

I've used CP garage services before when i had my wee fiat cinquecento...always drooled at the lovely big 166 poster they had on the back wall. Great guys and very helpful.

Whats a ball park figure to get the timing belt done in the TS engine - i seem to remember it needs more than just the belt changed?

Cheers!
Niall

[Martin Jacques]

Niall,

I have heard much anecdotal evidence that the TS cambelt really needs changing earlier than 72k, more like 36k. There are a number of cases on this forum of the TS cambelt failing prior to 72k, and it is far from certain that Alfa would pay up on a FSH car with a belt failed before 72k.

Again anecdotally, it appears that the V6s have less of a reliability concern over belts - although 72k is a long time. I let mine get to 72k before doing the belts, but I did feel a bit like I was playing roulette towards the end.

Have fun searching for the 166s. Don't discount the V6s though, as the cliff face depreciation means that they are not much more expensive these days. My 3.0 got better mpg (average 29-30) than many of the TS owners report too, so don't necessarily be put off by that.

My advice on things to look out for would be:-
- FSH, an absolute must. Not necessarily main dealer though.
- Is it due a big service soon (60k on the V6) or a very big service (72k V6). If so, budget accordingly.
- Do look at tyre wear. Mine wore the inside edge of the fronts, and outside edge of the rears despite being well within tracking spec. I had to rotate the tyres front to back every 5k miles. Mine had the 17" wheels though, maybe that affects this.
- If you are not fussed about leather, look for a cloth trim car. They depreciate even harder.
- If you do drive a V6 manual, don't be fooled by the stiff clutch. It takes quite a strong left leg, and I am told they are all like that.
- If it needs rear shocks, budget £700 to £800 for this (seriously )

If I were doing less miles these days, I'd be shopping for a cloth trim 3.0 Super that has had the cambelt and rear shocks done fairly recently

Great, great cars. Enjoy.

Martin.

[Loafer]

I would take Pat's advice.

I didn't get mine checked out before, and it was a bit scary when it went in for it's first service with me, as they are either good 'uns or bad 'uns with nothing in between.

Thankfully mine is a good 'un...!

Regards,

Loafer

[niallmoran]

Cheers guys - all great stuff

If your interested, here is the one on ebay that i'm watching:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=4510901559

I think the reserve was about 2800 last time it was listed but it didn't reach it and it does look a bargain. Also, its fairly close to home which is a bonus

Any thoughts on this one?

Cheers
Niall

[Mike M]

Originally Posted by niallmoran

Cheers guys - all great stuff

If your interested, here is the one on ebay that i'm watching:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=4510901559

I think the reserve was about 2800 last time it was listed but it didn't reach it and it does look a bargain. Also, its fairly close to home which is a bonus

Any thoughts on this one?

Cheers
Niall

I would question hard about why only 3 service stamps when the car has done 106,000 miles, I would expect something more like 8-12 stamps plus some receipts for warranty work done for minor problems. Would certainly be due for a cambelt service and I would suggest setting aside £300-400 to have it done plus any other niggly bits. If service history is missing it may be possible to find out where it was originally purchased and to phone the dealer and see if they have any history on their computer system etc.

High mileage on newer cars is not something to be worried about as long as they have been maintained well, as one Porsche website states "it's like aircraft, they get serviced on the number of takeoff's and landings not the number of miles they do"

[niallmoran]

Good point there about only 3 service stamps - hadn't really thought of that. Ii was thinking that it was probably due a cam belt change if it was done at 55k or whatever. Is the cam belt tricky on these beasties or is it a doable DIY job? Any special tools/equipment/methods needed?

What would you guys say a car like that would be worth - without being too biased

Cheers!
Niall

Originally Posted by niallmoran

Good point there about only 3 service stamps - hadn't really thought of that. Ii was thinking that it was probably due a cam belt change if it was done at 55k or whatever. Is the cam belt tricky on these beasties or is it a doable DIY job? Any special tools/equipment/methods needed?

What would you guys say a car like that would be worth - without being too biased

Cheers!
Niall

Hi Niall ,
It is possible to do a cambelt change your self ,I have just done 24v myself and a head removall if your brave enough! The tensioner pulley can be tricky but either myself or Euan will help. Euan will lend out the camlocks if you buy some bits of him although I am only assuming but he very kindly lent them to me. I assume the v6 166 is the one you are talking about ,I think the parts came to about £150 belt plus tensioner and two idlers.Cheers Pat

[niallmoran]

I was more likely to go for the 2.0 TS as i do about 1500 miles a month commuting but it sounds like the V6 might not be as scary as i thought it would be petrol wise....

I'll keep an eye on the one on ebay and see if i can get a bargain, if not i'll keep hunting

[HowardA]

looks a fine car.

I would budget for 72k service, as it sounds like a patchy history.
Clutch & rear shocks, given the mileage & T-reg.

Inside looks like a detailed clean is needed but nothing else.

Without a CD, the 'premium sound system' will not be fitted - you won't get rear parcel shelf speakers inside the grills (you can check this from inside the boot) - but the bog standard system is excellent. See other threads for how to fit CD/MP3 functions.

Barter for a warranty.

Check ALL the electrics (folding mirrors,windows,seats, petrol flap, boot release etc.)

What's the deal with the red keys? I have the click out key (VW etc style), so am not certain how many keys you should have, but probably a dark red one as well is necessary for re-programming new keys etc.

At £2k it is a bargain.

[Martin Jacques]

If it has done 106k on a T-plate, it is almost certainly a company leased car. Likely to have had all the servicing done, just not stamped in the book. Personally, I'd ring the seller and find out who the owner(s) have been - I'd be worried if a private owner has done many miles in it with no service stamps.

Conversely, if the owner was Lex, or Autolease, or Fleetlease etc, then 15 minutes on the phone will net you a service history printout from their computers.

As Howard said, I'd plan for a 72k service + potentially clutch and shocks. That lot will be £1,500 from Alfa, best part of £1,000 from an independent.

Lovely looking car, but if it were me, I'd be looking for proof that some servicing/clutch/shocks etc have been done fairly recently. £2,000 sounds about right to me with no more service history, bit more if you know you can avoid some bills.

Martin.

[niallmoran]

I've emailed the chap to see if he has any more info on previous owner and service history - especially bigger items. I'll see what he says. They're not able to offer a warranty but it will be "checked" in their workshop....don't suppose that means much

At 100k miles plus is there not a pretty good chance the clutch will have been replaced already? Or do they last pretty well? And what sort of mileage do you get from the shocks? I read in another post that they are about 800 quid to get fitted , although most of that is labour costs to do with stripping back the inside of the car.

I'm probably more wary of this car now than i was before....can't really afford to buy it for £2k+ and then budget for another £1k in the near future. But all this advice has been most welcome!

Maybe i should just wait for a nice one to come along in a private sale? Although i do like that colour....metalic red is my favourite (sounding like a girl here!)

[niallmoran]

Turns out it was a company car so i suppose it could be that the full service history is missing but it has been serviced more than records show.

Do alfa keep a central record of servicing details or is it only kept at the dealers? The last service was a "full major dealer service" at 86k - what is the service interval for these, 12k?

The chap has said that its still way below reserve at £2k but intends to sell tonight at whatever price it reaches....fingers crossed for £2k then!

[Mike M]

Originally Posted by niallmoran

Turns out it was a company car so i suppose it could be that the full service history is missing but it has been serviced more than records show.

Do alfa keep a central record of servicing details or is it only kept at the dealers? The last service was a "full major dealer service" at 86k - what is the service interval for these, 12k?

The chap has said that its still way below reserve at £2k but intends to sell tonight at whatever price it reaches....fingers crossed for £2k then!

It's not uncommon for ex company cars to have little or no service history. Alfa do not keep a central database of service records (if only!!). From looking at the V5 you might be able to track down where the work was done however so not all is lost, and anyway if you buy it after seeing it and it feels right then you got a bargain.

[niallmoran]

The auction ended with me as high bidder at £2k but reserve not met - will wait and see if the chap really wants to sell the car for that.....

Would that be as much of a bargain as i think it would?

[niallmoran]

The chap has agreed to sell it for £2k so it looks like i could be an alfa 166 owner shortly

I'm sure i'll start hounding you guys with lots of technical questions when it all goes horribly wrong

[Green Cloverleaf]

Congratulations, and best of luck - I hope she's a good 'un!

[Green Cloverleaf]

....oh, and don't forget to post some piccies when you take delivery

[badgers_nadgers]

let us know what she's like.

[niallmoran]

I've arranged to pick the new beastie up on wednesday so you guys can expect a flood of questions and problems on wednesday

I'll soon be able to change my profile and not look like such an interloper....