1994 164LS starting problem

[blackfxgt]

Well my 1994 164LS developed a problem by stalling out on the highway and never restarting after that. I've checked the following Timing belt (Good no slipage) Cam and crank sensor both seem to work fine. All engine grounds and connectors fine. Fuses seem fine none are blown. There is power to the injectors and fuel is okay. The problem I found was there is no spark at all. Both ignition modules are good and I even replaced for the hell of it with brand new ones but didn't fix anything. I'm also getting a mystery code 1221. That code I believe is for the AFM. Would the AFM have anything to do with spark though I'm wondering? Also with slipped timing belt would the belts be still nice and tight?
I've checked all grounds and it makes me believe there might be a problem with the CPU. Can anyone help or shed some light what else to check?

[OLD ALF]

You seem to have covered most things but take a look at the ECU, easilly located and removed in the passenger footwell..disconnect battery.One scew removes the console trim.Three bolts secure the ECU housing.
The multiplug and ecu pins get corroded by water or coolant seeping through.
A good clean of the pins solves many a problem.
Perhaps check function of ECU relay first, sited at centre front of engine compartment.the one with the red stripe alongside the fuel pump relay.
Air leaks in the hose between AFM and plenum chamber could be the problem but need to remove hose to thoroughly examine the part.Maybe the code means incorrect air flow.

You sound kowledgable but to the uneducated Ecu controls the spark .but only after getting the OK from Crankshaft sensor ,then sets the starting sequence via its relay.

[Lexio]

Does the car turn over, but just not start?

Have you checked the relays? There is a bank of 4 or 5 (been a while since I owned a 164) in the centre of the engine bay infront of the engine/radiator (nearest you when you open the bonnet). They are under a black plastic cover. I can't remebe what they all do, but one does the fuel pump and the other does the electrics for the ignition/coils. If either of these has broken your car won't start. They may have fuses on the top of them too, so check these also.

I had a 91 TS (8V) so these relays may be in differnt locations, but you will still have them.

[Smaky]

If the car starts, runs and then cuts out when it warms up but will start again when cold will be the crank sensor.

[tifosi27]

Hiya

Sorry I don't know what an LS is, I guess from the cam belt comment it's not a 2.0TS but a V6 of some sort.

For a 3.0V6 24V, Error Code 1-2-2-1 = Air flow meter faulty (probably)

There is a list of codes here:
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...codes-24v.html (Alfa 164 Fault Codes (24v))

You do sound like you know what you're doing. If this IS for your car, I would look at anything to do with the air flow from the airfilter right to the throttle body, check for blocked airflow at the airfilter or cracks in the AFM/throttle body pipe, look for free movement in the AFM flap itself, you can clean this with proprietary cleaners but obviously don't damage the internals, check the electrical connectors to the AFM and any other airflow components.

If you can get the engine to run, grab the AFM and push it up and down real hard, visibly bending the corrugated plastic air pipe. Any cracks will change in size and the engine revs will change as a result. Also pull off the top of the airfilter cover and see if that makes any difference to the revs or indeed the starting. It might let air in if there's a filter or intake blockage.

Check the integrity of those two pipes that run back to the plenum from the AFM pipe too.

It can be an erroneous error code, that does happen sometimes. If the airflow system is all good then I would agree that the ECU should be looked at and cleaning the connectors is always a good starting point as already mentioned earlier in this thread and at the same time the ECU relay operation.

Keep us posted with the results. Good luck!

[mick164]

..when my 164 died in similar circumstances the culpret turned out to be a bad connection in the ignition key barrel.

more recently a blown heated rear window fuse prevented the car from starting, which sounds wierd, but you never know. i didn't think to check it for ages cos it's in the boot...

good luck sorting it out anyhow

[OLD ALF]

Does the car have an immobiliser .?
if yes ,we are in a different ball park and more options

[QVHK]

Originally Posted by mick164

..when my 164 died in similar circumstances the culpret turned out to be a bad connection in the ignition key barrel.

My QV24 refused to start once also because of melted connections inside the key barrel. symptoms were: got cabin lights, but no panel lighting, no headlights and air-con, starter did not turn.

[blackfxgt]

Well here is some update. There is no voltage coming from the ECU to the ignition modules on any of the three wires. Crank sensor is good and is the wiring. Cam sensor is good as well. Ignition switch is good as well so it looks the CPU is dead. I will update as soon as I get a replacement ECU. Can someone verify if the ECU outputs any signal from the pins going to the modules. In the book they are marked as module power so I'm guessing 12V should be present at those pins?

[blackfxgt]

Originally Posted by OLD FASHIONED ALF

Does the car have an immobiliser .?
if yes ,we are in a different ball park and more options

Yes it does from the factory. Someone suggested that might be the problem and told me to try the following. The yellow/ black wire is held high by the alarm to inhibit the ECU.
There's a well hidden plug below and forward of the radio recess that can be disconnected to get things back to normal. Need to take the side panel off on left to get at it, it's forward and up. I will try it and report back with the findings.

[tifosi27]

Hi mate

What's the ECU number and is your ignition fitted with keycode or not? (red key or black key? "CODE" lights up on the instrument binnacle when you insert the ignition key?)

Originally Posted by blackfxgt

Well here is some update. There is no voltage coming from the ECU to the ignition modules on any of the three wires. Crank sensor is good and is the wiring. Cam sensor is good as well. Ignition switch is good as well so it looks the CPU is dead. I will update as soon as I get a replacement ECU. Can someone verify if the ECU outputs any signal from the pins going to the modules. In the book they are marked as module power so I'm guessing 12V should be present at those pins?

[blackfxgt]

No keycode (black key) No lights on instrument panel. All is normal upon cranking just no spark. There is juice to the coils just no signal to the ignition modules from the ecu. The ecu number I can't seem to remmember off hand

[OLD ALF]

have you examined and tested ecu relay and fuses at front of engine compartment ,the one with the red stripe.?
Have you examined ecu for signs on corrosion ?
Can you hear fuel pump priming itself when you turn on ignition.?

[blackfxgt]

All relays and fuses are good. Plenty of fuel just no spark at all

[QVHK]

It could be just connection problems. After cleaning my engine bay once, the car refused to start. Starter did not turn; I smelled fuel but it simply refused to fire up. The car was subsequently towed to the workshop which checked all wirings and connectors. Here is a picture of the culprit. Hope this helps.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...torfailure.jpg