1994 164LS starting problem - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
  Home Forums AO Club Member Gallery Classifieds Trade Directory  

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 164 & 166

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (Post Link)  
Old 05-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

1994 164LS starting problem

Well my 1994 164LS developed a problem by stalling out on the highway and never restarting after that. I've checked the following Timing belt (Good no slipage) Cam and crank sensor both seem to work fine. All engine grounds and connectors fine. Fuses seem fine none are blown. There is power to the injectors and fuel is okay. The problem I found was there is no spark at all. Both ignition modules are good and I even replaced for the hell of it with brand new ones but didn't fix anything. I'm also getting a mystery code 1221. That code I believe is for the AFM. Would the AFM have anything to do with spark though I'm wondering? Also with slipped timing belt would the belts be still nice and tight?
I've checked all grounds and it makes me believe there might be a problem with the CPU. Can anyone help or shed some light what else to check?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (Post Link)  
Old 07-09-09
OLD ALF's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 393

Member car:

164 ts 164 3Lauto

You seem to have covered most things but take a look at the ECU, easilly located and removed in the passenger footwell..disconnect battery.One scew removes the console trim.Three bolts secure the ECU housing.
The multiplug and ecu pins get corroded by water or coolant seeping through.
A good clean of the pins solves many a problem.
Perhaps check function of ECU relay first, sited at centre front of engine compartment.the one with the red stripe alongside the fuel pump relay.
Air leaks in the hose between AFM and plenum chamber could be the problem but need to remove hose to thoroughly examine the part.Maybe the code means incorrect air flow.

You sound kowledgable but to the uneducated Ecu controls the spark .but only after getting the OK from Crankshaft sensor ,then sets the starting sequence via its relay.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (Post Link)  
Old 07-09-09
Lexio's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Loogabarooga
Posts: 90

Member car:

166 & Giulietta 116

Does the car turn over, but just not start?

Have you checked the relays? There is a bank of 4 or 5 (been a while since I owned a 164) in the centre of the engine bay infront of the engine/radiator (nearest you when you open the bonnet). They are under a black plastic cover. I can't remebe what they all do, but one does the fuel pump and the other does the electrics for the ignition/coils. If either of these has broken your car won't start. They may have fuses on the top of them too, so check these also.

I had a 91 TS (8V) so these relays may be in differnt locations, but you will still have them.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (Post Link)  
Old 07-09-09
Status: Banned for not following the site rules
Unregistered
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wiltshire
Posts: 9,721
Images: 6

Member car:

146TS+Ti,156 Sele x2 + V6

If the car starts, runs and then cuts out when it warms up but will start again when cold will be the crank sensor.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (Post Link)  
Old 08-09-09
tifosi27's Avatar
Status: depressed coz I sold my S3 Spider
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: South Lanarkshire
Posts: 283
Images: 51

Member car:

24v164QV 24v164 S3Spider

164 3.0 24v Error Code 1221

Hiya

Sorry I don't know what an LS is, I guess from the cam belt comment it's not a 2.0TS but a V6 of some sort.

For a 3.0V6 24V, Error Code 1-2-2-1 = Air flow meter faulty (probably)

There is a list of codes here:
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...codes-24v.html (Alfa 164 Fault Codes (24v))

You do sound like you know what you're doing. If this IS for your car, I would look at anything to do with the air flow from the airfilter right to the throttle body, check for blocked airflow at the airfilter or cracks in the AFM/throttle body pipe, look for free movement in the AFM flap itself, you can clean this with proprietary cleaners but obviously don't damage the internals, check the electrical connectors to the AFM and any other airflow components.

If you can get the engine to run, grab the AFM and push it up and down real hard, visibly bending the corrugated plastic air pipe. Any cracks will change in size and the engine revs will change as a result. Also pull off the top of the airfilter cover and see if that makes any difference to the revs or indeed the starting. It might let air in if there's a filter or intake blockage.

Check the integrity of those two pipes that run back to the plenum from the AFM pipe too.

It can be an erroneous error code, that does happen sometimes. If the airflow system is all good then I would agree that the ECU should be looked at and cleaning the connectors is always a good starting point as already mentioned earlier in this thread and at the same time the ECU relay operation.

Keep us posted with the results. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (Post Link)  
Old 08-09-09
mick164's Avatar
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland
County: Dublin
Posts: 1,134
Images: 8

Member car:

164TB, 166 3.0, 156 1.6

..when my 164 died in similar circumstances the culpret turned out to be a bad connection in the ignition key barrel.

more recently a blown heated rear window fuse prevented the car from starting, which sounds wierd, but you never know. i didn't think to check it for ages cos it's in the boot...

good luck sorting it out anyhow
Reply With Quote
  #7 (Post Link)  
Old 09-09-09
OLD ALF's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 393

Member car:

164 ts 164 3Lauto

Does the car have an immobiliser .?
if yes ,we are in a different ball park and more options
Reply With Quote
  #8 (Post Link)  
Old 19-09-09
QVHK's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hong Kong
County: -
Posts: 56
Images: 3

Member car:

164QV24; Mercedes 300CE

Originally Posted by mick164 View Post
..when my 164 died in similar circumstances the culpret turned out to be a bad connection in the ignition key barrel.
My QV24 refused to start once also because of melted connections inside the key barrel. symptoms were: got cabin lights, but no panel lighting, no headlights and air-con, starter did not turn.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (Post Link)  
Old 21-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

Well here is some update. There is no voltage coming from the ECU to the ignition modules on any of the three wires. Crank sensor is good and is the wiring. Cam sensor is good as well. Ignition switch is good as well so it looks the CPU is dead. I will update as soon as I get a replacement ECU. Can someone verify if the ECU outputs any signal from the pins going to the modules. In the book they are marked as module power so I'm guessing 12V should be present at those pins?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (Post Link)  
Old 21-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

Originally Posted by OLD FASHIONED ALF View Post
Does the car have an immobiliser .?
if yes ,we are in a different ball park and more options
Yes it does from the factory. Someone suggested that might be the problem and told me to try the following. The yellow/ black wire is held high by the alarm to inhibit the ECU.
There's a well hidden plug below and forward of the radio recess that can be disconnected to get things back to normal. Need to take the side panel off on left to get at it, it's forward and up. I will try it and report back with the findings.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (Post Link)  
Old 22-09-09
tifosi27's Avatar
Status: depressed coz I sold my S3 Spider
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: South Lanarkshire
Posts: 283
Images: 51

Member car:

24v164QV 24v164 S3Spider

Hi mate

What's the ECU number and is your ignition fitted with keycode or not? (red key or black key? "CODE" lights up on the instrument binnacle when you insert the ignition key?)

Originally Posted by blackfxgt View Post
Well here is some update. There is no voltage coming from the ECU to the ignition modules on any of the three wires. Crank sensor is good and is the wiring. Cam sensor is good as well. Ignition switch is good as well so it looks the CPU is dead. I will update as soon as I get a replacement ECU. Can someone verify if the ECU outputs any signal from the pins going to the modules. In the book they are marked as module power so I'm guessing 12V should be present at those pins?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (Post Link)  
Old 24-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

No keycode (black key) No lights on instrument panel. All is normal upon cranking just no spark. There is juice to the coils just no signal to the ignition modules from the ecu. The ecu number I can't seem to remmember off hand
Reply With Quote
  #13 (Post Link)  
Old 24-09-09
OLD ALF's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 393

Member car:

164 ts 164 3Lauto

have you examined and tested ecu relay and fuses at front of engine compartment ,the one with the red stripe.?
Have you examined ecu for signs on corrosion ?
Can you hear fuel pump priming itself when you turn on ignition.?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (Post Link)  
Old 25-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

All relays and fuses are good. Plenty of fuel just no spark at all
Reply With Quote
  #15 (Post Link)  
Old 26-09-09
QVHK's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hong Kong
County: -
Posts: 56
Images: 3

Member car:

164QV24; Mercedes 300CE

It could be just connection problems. After cleaning my engine bay once, the car refused to start. Starter did not turn; I smelled fuel but it simply refused to fire up. The car was subsequently towed to the workshop which checked all wirings and connectors. Here is a picture of the culprit. Hope this helps.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...torfailure.jpg
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 164 & 166

Tags
164ls, 1994, problem, starting

Thread Tools


Recently 'Read'
No History to show

Useful Links
Lost Password?
AO Merchandise
FAQs
Register

External Links
Alfa Romeo 156...
2009 Alfa Romeo...
2011 Alfa Romeo...
Alfa Romeo GT...
L@@K~JUST...

Alfa Romeo

Recent Image

Project Halo Uk -...

View JabawokJayUK's images

Search

Forums

Classifieds
   

Gallery

Social Groups
   

Members
   


Did you know..?
Did you know..?
Clicking on a members username within a forum post displays extra options.


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:05.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87