1994 164LS starting problem - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
  Home Forums AO Club Member Gallery Classifieds Trade Directory  

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 164 & 166

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (Post Link)  
Old 05-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

1994 164LS starting problem

Well my 1994 164LS developed a problem by stalling out on the highway and never restarting after that. I've checked the following Timing belt (Good no slipage) Cam and crank sensor both seem to work fine. All engine grounds and connectors fine. Fuses seem fine none are blown. There is power to the injectors and fuel is okay. The problem I found was there is no spark at all. Both ignition modules are good and I even replaced for the hell of it with brand new ones but didn't fix anything. I'm also getting a mystery code 1221. That code I believe is for the AFM. Would the AFM have anything to do with spark though I'm wondering? Also with slipped timing belt would the belts be still nice and tight?
I've checked all grounds and it makes me believe there might be a problem with the CPU. Can anyone help or shed some light what else to check?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (Post Link)  
Old 07-09-09
OLD ALF's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 393

Member car:

164 ts 164 3Lauto

You seem to have covered most things but take a look at the ECU, easilly located and removed in the passenger footwell..disconnect battery.One scew removes the console trim.Three bolts secure the ECU housing.
The multiplug and ecu pins get corroded by water or coolant seeping through.
A good clean of the pins solves many a problem.
Perhaps check function of ECU relay first, sited at centre front of engine compartment.the one with the red stripe alongside the fuel pump relay.
Air leaks in the hose between AFM and plenum chamber could be the problem but need to remove hose to thoroughly examine the part.Maybe the code means incorrect air flow.

You sound kowledgable but to the uneducated Ecu controls the spark .but only after getting the OK from Crankshaft sensor ,then sets the starting sequence via its relay.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (Post Link)  
Old 07-09-09
Lexio's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Loogabarooga
Posts: 90

Member car:

166 & Giulietta 116

Does the car turn over, but just not start?

Have you checked the relays? There is a bank of 4 or 5 (been a while since I owned a 164) in the centre of the engine bay infront of the engine/radiator (nearest you when you open the bonnet). They are under a black plastic cover. I can't remebe what they all do, but one does the fuel pump and the other does the electrics for the ignition/coils. If either of these has broken your car won't start. They may have fuses on the top of them too, so check these also.

I had a 91 TS (8V) so these relays may be in differnt locations, but you will still have them.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (Post Link)  
Old 07-09-09
Status: Banned for not following the site rules
Unregistered
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wiltshire
Posts: 9,721
Images: 6

Member car:

146TS+Ti,156 Sele x2 + V6

If the car starts, runs and then cuts out when it warms up but will start again when cold will be the crank sensor.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (Post Link)  
Old 08-09-09
tifosi27's Avatar
Status: depressed coz I sold my S3 Spider
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: South Lanarkshire
Posts: 283
Images: 51

Member car:

24v164QV 24v164 S3Spider

164 3.0 24v Error Code 1221

Hiya

Sorry I don't know what an LS is, I guess from the cam belt comment it's not a 2.0TS but a V6 of some sort.

For a 3.0V6 24V, Error Code 1-2-2-1 = Air flow meter faulty (probably)

There is a list of codes here:
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...codes-24v.html (Alfa 164 Fault Codes (24v))

You do sound like you know what you're doing. If this IS for your car, I would look at anything to do with the air flow from the airfilter right to the throttle body, check for blocked airflow at the airfilter or cracks in the AFM/throttle body pipe, look for free movement in the AFM flap itself, you can clean this with proprietary cleaners but obviously don't damage the internals, check the electrical connectors to the AFM and any other airflow components.

If you can get the engine to run, grab the AFM and push it up and down real hard, visibly bending the corrugated plastic air pipe. Any cracks will change in size and the engine revs will change as a result. Also pull off the top of the airfilter cover and see if that makes any difference to the revs or indeed the starting. It might let air in if there's a filter or intake blockage.

Check the integrity of those two pipes that run back to the plenum from the AFM pipe too.

It can be an erroneous error code, that does happen sometimes. If the airflow system is all good then I would agree that the ECU should be looked at and cleaning the connectors is always a good starting point as already mentioned earlier in this thread and at the same time the ECU relay operation.

Keep us posted with the results. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (Post Link)  
Old 08-09-09
mick164's Avatar
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ireland
County: Dublin
Posts: 1,126
Images: 8

Member car:

164TB, 166 3.0, 156 1.6

..when my 164 died in similar circumstances the culpret turned out to be a bad connection in the ignition key barrel.

more recently a blown heated rear window fuse prevented the car from starting, which sounds wierd, but you never know. i didn't think to check it for ages cos it's in the boot...

good luck sorting it out anyhow
Reply With Quote
  #7 (Post Link)  
Old 09-09-09
OLD ALF's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 393

Member car:

164 ts 164 3Lauto

Does the car have an immobiliser .?
if yes ,we are in a different ball park and more options
Reply With Quote
  #8 (Post Link)  
Old 19-09-09
QVHK's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hong Kong
County: -
Posts: 56
Images: 3

Member car:

164QV24; Mercedes 300CE

Originally Posted by mick164 View Post
..when my 164 died in similar circumstances the culpret turned out to be a bad connection in the ignition key barrel.
My QV24 refused to start once also because of melted connections inside the key barrel. symptoms were: got cabin lights, but no panel lighting, no headlights and air-con, starter did not turn.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (Post Link)  
Old 21-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

Well here is some update. There is no voltage coming from the ECU to the ignition modules on any of the three wires. Crank sensor is good and is the wiring. Cam sensor is good as well. Ignition switch is good as well so it looks the CPU is dead. I will update as soon as I get a replacement ECU. Can someone verify if the ECU outputs any signal from the pins going to the modules. In the book they are marked as module power so I'm guessing 12V should be present at those pins?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (Post Link)  
Old 21-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

Originally Posted by OLD FASHIONED ALF View Post
Does the car have an immobiliser .?
if yes ,we are in a different ball park and more options
Yes it does from the factory. Someone suggested that might be the problem and told me to try the following. The yellow/ black wire is held high by the alarm to inhibit the ECU.
There's a well hidden plug below and forward of the radio recess that can be disconnected to get things back to normal. Need to take the side panel off on left to get at it, it's forward and up. I will try it and report back with the findings.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (Post Link)  
Old 22-09-09
tifosi27's Avatar
Status: depressed coz I sold my S3 Spider
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: South Lanarkshire
Posts: 283
Images: 51

Member car:

24v164QV 24v164 S3Spider

Hi mate

What's the ECU number and is your ignition fitted with keycode or not? (red key or black key? "CODE" lights up on the instrument binnacle when you insert the ignition key?)

Originally Posted by blackfxgt View Post
Well here is some update. There is no voltage coming from the ECU to the ignition modules on any of the three wires. Crank sensor is good and is the wiring. Cam sensor is good as well. Ignition switch is good as well so it looks the CPU is dead. I will update as soon as I get a replacement ECU. Can someone verify if the ECU outputs any signal from the pins going to the modules. In the book they are marked as module power so I'm guessing 12V should be present at those pins?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (Post Link)  
Old 24-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

No keycode (black key) No lights on instrument panel. All is normal upon cranking just no spark. There is juice to the coils just no signal to the ignition modules from the ecu. The ecu number I can't seem to remmember off hand
Reply With Quote
  #13 (Post Link)  
Old 24-09-09
OLD ALF's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: -
Posts: 393

Member car:

164 ts 164 3Lauto

have you examined and tested ecu relay and fuses at front of engine compartment ,the one with the red stripe.?
Have you examined ecu for signs on corrosion ?
Can you hear fuel pump priming itself when you turn on ignition.?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (Post Link)  
Old 25-09-09
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United States
County: Ohio
Posts: 6

Member car:

164 LS

All relays and fuses are good. Plenty of fuel just no spark at all
Reply With Quote
  #15 (Post Link)  
Old 26-09-09
QVHK's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hong Kong
County: -
Posts: 56
Images: 3

Member car:

164QV24; Mercedes 300CE

It could be just connection problems. After cleaning my engine bay once, the car refused to start. Starter did not turn; I smelled fuel but it simply refused to fire up. The car was subsequently towed to the workshop which checked all wirings and connectors. Here is a picture of the culprit. Hope this helps.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...torfailure.jpg
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 164 & 166

Tags
164ls, 1994, problem, starting

Thread Tools


Recently 'Read'
No History to show

Useful Links
Lost Password?
AO Merchandise
FAQs
Register

External Links
Alfa Romeo Mito...
Alfa Romeo Spider...
Alfa romeo 147 t...
Alfa Romeo MiTo...
2004 ALFA ROMEO 156...

Alfa Romeo

Recent Image

Alfa 159

View paul.o's images

Search

Forums

Classifieds
   

Gallery

Social Groups
   

Members
   


Did you know..?
Did you know..?
Within your User Control Panel, you can change the way AO works:
For example, to change the number of posts per page, go to Edit Options and scroll down to 'Thread Display Options'. In the section 'Number of Posts to Show Per Page' select a desired amount.


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:37.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733