164 recirculation motor

Hi again....


Anyone got one of these?

What a coincidence, this is exactly something I worked on yesterday!

What's precisely the problem with yours ? Mine started with blinking recirc light occasionaly and before I found time to look into it, I heard loud clicking from jumping teeth inside of it. I started removing this motor, but couldn't manage to get to the uper screw.Luckily while the motor was loosened, I think I made it jump the clicking tooth, sprayed the pivot with WD-40 and now it works ok, hopefully till I get a proper tool to get to the upper screw.

Anyway, I"ve read somewhere that inside the plastic shield there is simply a popular 12v motor which can be found in many toys and it's easy to find a replacement. Have you tried to look inside? maybe it is just rusted.

E.T.

Originally Posted by E.T.

What a coincidence, this is exactly something I worked on yesterday!

What's precisely the problem with yours ? Mine started with blinking recirc light occasionaly and before I found time to look into it, I heard loud clicking from jumping teeth inside of it. I started removing this motor, but couldn't manage to get to the uper screw.Luckily while the motor was loosened, I think I made it jump the clicking tooth, sprayed the pivot with WD-40 and now it works ok, hopefully till I get a proper tool to get to the upper screw.

Anyway, I"ve read somewhere that inside the plastic shield there is simply a popular 12v motor which can be found in many toys and it's easy to find a replacement. Have you tried to look inside? maybe it is just rusted.

E.T.

Thanks for the info.


The recirc. light will blink, the climate control system is designed so that in extreme differentials between inside and outside temperatures, the door is closed until temp. is closer to what you've set it to in the cabin. Then the recirc. door will open a little, then close again.... then open a little longer, close again... and so on. This is because it's not a good idea to continually exclude fresh air from outside, and it mixes a little fresh air in to prevent the air becoming stale. Hence the blinking light.

Once the cabin temp. is close to your selected temp., it should remain open (light off). If the CC senses a big difference in temperature, it will start intermittently closing the door again...

Unfortunately for me, the motor itself (inside the gearbox) has burnt out, a small ring in the armature has come loose, shorting against the windings... lots of acrid smoke and sparks.
It looks like any old motor will work, but one needs to consider the RPM of the motor itself, number of teeth on the gear, and of course, the fittings on the contacts (the white plastic end, opposite the gear -- those spade terminals need to fit inside the connectors in the black plastic part).

I've got someone contacting Bosch on the off-chance it's available as a replacement, but not holding my breath...



Edit... Just noticed yours is a '94, it might not be the same as the '97 which I have. In mine, the climate control does as I explained above, don't know if earlier models worked the same. Apologies if this contradicts your information.

Hi Ronald
I am stripping a 164 and may well have such a motor. I will look next time I'm at the car - but where exactly is it on the car?? Below the windscreen I presume??

Originally Posted by Alfasixnut

Hi Ronald
I am stripping a 164 and may well have such a motor. I will look next time I'm at the car - but where exactly is it on the car?? Below the windscreen I presume??

Yes, in the extreme left-hand side (viewed from the front of the car) in the space under the cover, located directly under the keys in the photo. Three screws hold it in place ...


What year is the 164? I may need some other bits!

Hi, I did just what you want to do on my 1994 super. I dismantled the box and extracted the old motor, and then fitted a 3V toy motor with a 10 ohm resistor in series with it. I had to make up some extra external wiring, etc. No problem. The motor works faster and the door opens and shuts more quickly than normal, but it has functioned perfectly for several years now. It was a good fix.

Best of luck with yours.

Alex.

94 Super Black.
94 QV red.

Originally Posted by Alex Binnie

Hi, I did just what you want to do on my 1994 super. I dismantled the box and extracted the old motor, and then fitted a 3V toy motor with a 10 ohm resistor in series with it. I had to make up some extra external wiring, etc. No problem. The motor works faster and the door opens and shuts more quickly than normal, but it has functioned perfectly for several years now. It was a good fix.

Best of luck with yours.

Alex.

94 Super Black.
94 QV red.

Thanks, any details? What was the source of the motor, what additional electronics did you need? Any assistance would be appreciated, I'm not too good with electrical stuff....


... and the part from Bosch is around £60 (to be fair, that IS for the entire assembly)!

Hi Ronald
The 164 is a K reg and I will be getting parts off this week - what else might you want? I've got front wings, rear bumper, bootlid - less lock, bonnet etc etc.

Originally Posted by Ronald

Edit... Just noticed yours is a '94, it might not be the same as the '97 which I have. In mine, the climate control does as I explained above, don't know if earlier models worked the same. Apologies if this contradicts your information.

Starting from '94 or maybe even '93 facelift all 164's got the same climate control panel and work on the same logic as '97. The blinking I mentioned was qiucker than every second and looked like indicating some fault, and when it first occured I noticed the flap was partially opened, but looks like it is supposed to be this way from your description. Anyway, I will have to manage this issue asap since the motor started clicking again this morning. The good thing is that it rotates evidently, just wondering whether I'll fix the gearbox.

For what it's worth, I fixed my (previous) 164's recirculation door motor with a replacement motor from a Lancia Thema.

The Thema's climate control system has three motors: temperature, distribution drum, and recirculate door - all three motors are very similar to the recirculate door motor used on the 164. I have no idea why the 164 uses stepper motors for the other two functions. The non-stepper motors used in the Thema are very much more reliable. The rest of the heating/air conditioning system is very similar (the Saab design).

The motor is made by Buhler (with an umlaut on the u), who, oddly enough, used to make the 12v motors for LEGO trains (don't ask how I happen to know this )

There's a relatively large number of Themas in NZ - more than there are 164s - but this may not be the same for other countries (the Thema being non-existent in the USA, for example).

-Alex

Thanks for the feedback, folks!

(@ alexGS -- the motor itself in mine is stamped "Johnson" on the casing at the gear end, and the white plastic end with the brushes has "J.E.I. H.K" and a logo embossed... I'm guessing Bosch had various suppliers of the component parts)

Originally Posted by Alfasixnut

Hi Ronald
The 164 is a K reg and I will be getting parts off this week - what else might you want? I've got front wings, rear bumper, bootlid - less lock, bonnet etc etc.

Are the fog lights in the lip of the spoiler (older style) or higher up in the bumper itself? I'm missing the surround on one of mine.

What's the centre console (running between front seats) like? Might need a photo if there's a difference between K and R reg...

Have located motor but its a pain to remove - but should have it off soon.
Fog lights and surrounds gone I'm afraid - but still have centre console and can get a photo soon??

Originally Posted by Alfasixnut

Have located motor but its a pain to remove - but should have it off soon.
Fog lights and surrounds gone I'm afraid - but still have centre console and can get a photo soon??

Off is far easier than on, trust me... Trying not to drop the rearmost of the three screws while holding a screwdriver in the same fingers is, well, an achievement, to say the least...

How much for the assembly? And is the screen wash reservoir available? Um, what else.... hmmmm...

Hi Ronald
Motor out, still on the heater matrix block! Also washer bottle available with motorised pumps, centre consol also? (see pics) please PM for price etc

A big thank you to Alfasixnut for all your help!