HID Conversion Kit for Late European 164's - Legal !

Good Evening Chaps,

After a few thoughts and thinkering around I finally managed to find out that a 164 Super or the Late Edition 164's can be fitted with aftermarket HID Kits and make them street legal. The down side is that you have to choose to either loose your High Beam or Make a non street legal HID for it too, however since the High Beam isn't used that much, it could be worth a shot. Here's what i found;

The 164 Super here in Malta at the Introduction of the 166, it was offered to have purchase your 164 with Xenon Hedlamps. The reason was that stock was still here and they wanted to get the 166 selling. Now all I know is that the projection headlamp on the 164 is similar to the 166, however it wasn't developed for both hi or lo beams.

I wanted to have some fun and play around so I fitted a 6000K HID Kit on the 164, made a little customisation for the hole, drilled only a tiny hole for the wires to go through, took me more than 20 mins that's for sure more like 3 hours !

So I finally got the headlamps ready and turned them on. I maked the original projection of the halogen bulb on a wall using a pencil and ruler (don't tell anyone but the wall i used was my neighbours, rubbed the things off when I finished :P ) and then I did the same thing with the HID installed. The beam aligned !! I checked the back of the headlamp and I found a switch (white) and it has 3 positions LHD, RHD and something else I don't recall, hovever its only visible if you take the cap off the projection lens bulb. Now mine is RHD and was already on the Notch but since there is a LHD setting I am guessing it would work for LHD Cars too.

I got to my friend's who has a headlamp alignment kit for MOT purpouses and it was correct i.e. I could pass our version of the MOT named VRT in Malta ! So I am quite happy about it at the moment.

Now for the High Beam I went an extra mile, and got another HID Kit for it same temp, and still H1. Bad News, the Light emmitted wasn't as before, not bad, but not erm.... legal. A few adjustments and its legal however with two HID's I'll probalbly blind anyone who comes towards me if they are on. But then in my case I'd blame the Government for not putting adequate lighting in some areas in Malta, not even 1 lamp post or a sign. In some places if you lit a candle you'd be polluting the area as its so dark.

Anyhow I wanted you to know about this for anyone interested in the HID's. Now in Malta we're known to bend rules so I can't say that the beam was 100% correct on my friend's machine probably a good margine of error pre-set !! But from my pencil marks and what I saw the light emmitted was quite good, and no one has flashed me yet so... hehe (If someone does, I'll flash him with 4 HID's that will show him or her heheh )

Oh almost forgot, there is an issue with the 164's side lamps. When you turn the coloumn to position 1 (Side Lamps) the HID Lamps flicker for a fews secs then turn off. Now I know that on Halogen, the projector lens used to dim the H1 bulb, however this is affecting the HID as it can't be dim ie; it needs 12V not 6 ! So if you use HID's you're only gonna use the physical Side Lamp Bulb and no more dim lens. Now for this I need your help. I have to eliminate the "Dim" power supply from the Headlamp as its going to the ballast now and can cause damage in time. Correct me if I am wrong but if I can recall corectly 2 wires are stuck to the +ve of the halogen in the Procector Lens? Do you know from where I can eliminate the "Dim" input for the side lights ? I think its from one of the wires but not certain. Need to check it out tomorrow. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks & Regards,

Keith

What did you do about fitting a self-levelling conversion?

My 164 has a knob on the Dash that controls the Headlamp Aim, so I can increase or decrease the angle from inside i belive its 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 according to the baggage weight of the car.

Other than that I didn't do a self levelling conversion. I assumed that the car will always weigh the same with no passangers at the back but I didn't do anything else. I think that if you have the Aim Control you can adjust it without having the need of a self-levelling feature.

As I said here in Malta the MOT alignment Kits are not 100% they have been tampered with like everyhing else in this country, however using a 25m distance infront of a wall gave me the same results of that of a halogen bulb. Now if there are more stringent rules in other EU countries I don't have a clue but to me and what I've seen so far the results are quite good. Better illumination without having other drivers flash their high beam at you.

What made me do this was an idea. I got a 166 Xenon Headlamp and checked its lens. The lens when compared to the 164 is almost identical if not identical. So what I did I reversed the theory and worked back to the 164.

I took some precautions though, got a 6000K Kit rather than a 5000K as the 5000K produces more light and If I installed it wrong, the light would be too bright. So the 6000K is slightly less bright and softer on the eyes. Till now all seems fine. If I get a ticket out of all this or being fined I'll let you know but according to a Police Officer and a friend of mine it should be ok.

Note that the HID Kit installed was on the Projector Lens of the 164 and not the High Beam. I Installed the High beam just for the fun of it. The lens is the Key to everything !

Originally Posted by keithhm

My 164 has a knob on the Dash that controls the Headlamp Aim, so I can increase or decrease the angle from inside i belive its 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 according to the baggage weight of the car.

Other than that I didn't do a self levelling conversion. I assumed that the car will always weigh the same with no passangers at the back but I didn't do anything else. I think that if you have the Aim Control you can adjust it without having the need of a self-levelling feature.

As I said here in Malta the MOT alignment Kits are not 100% they have been tampered with like everyhing else in this country, however using a 25m distance infront of a wall gave me the same results of that of a halogen bulb. Now if there are more stringent rules in other EU countries I don't have a clue but to me and what I've seen so far the results are quite good. Better illumination without having other drivers flash their high beam at you.

What made me do this was an idea. I got a 166 Xenon Headlamp and checked its lens. The lens when compared to the 164 is almost identical if not identical. So what I did I reversed the theory and worked back to the 164.

I took some precautions though, got a 6000K Kit rather than a 5000K as the 5000K produces more light and If I installed it wrong, the light would be too bright. So the 6000K is slightly less bright and softer on the eyes. Till now all seems fine. If I get a ticket out of all this or being fined I'll let you know but according to a Police Officer and a friend of mine it should be ok.

Note that the HID Kit installed was on the Projector Lens of the 164 and not the High Beam. I Installed the High beam just for the fun of it. The lens is the Key to everything !

First off they are illegal and do not work properly anyway.

Second, most OEM HID capsules are 4500K, this is not how BRIGHT they are, this is a kelvin temp. This temp is more Yellow/White.
6000 KELVIN is BLUISH/PURPLE, which is not good for night seeing at all. 5500K is day light ~
BTW- Lumens are the brightness of the light source.
HID is typically around 3500 Lumens.
H1 bulb (halogen) around 2800 Lumens

Yellow/White is what you want. But besides that the idea of putting HID into 164 headlamps is not right anyway you look at it, 4500K or 8000K, it does not work.


Halogen based reflector units used in the 164 Projection beam headlamp is just that, a halogen based lamp reflector.
So you may have 3500 lumens in your halogen based reflectors but they are not aligned properly and put more of the light right in front of you where then you eyes will think there is more light when in-fact more light does not mean BETTER!!! Less lumens and properly aligned with the proper reflector, high quality bulb/Reflector will produce a better beam pattern and lighting than a HID kit any day of the week. At the 75m range the halogen will rule over a HID kit which will not make it 25m.
Notice all the orange scattered light? That is the result of the wrong light source in the wrong reflector. Watch the scattered light disappear when you put the H1 bulb back in.

No way the results where the same with this kit and the normal halogen. No way. Not possible.
Here read this article:
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

In my opinion these kits are unsafe, useless and only for looks. They are dangerous to yourself and oncoming cars.
There is no real distance lighting to these kits.

My suggestion is to replace it with a better halogen bulb, makes a big difference.

I have a AUTO EXPRESS video on this if you want it? AUTO EXPRESS is well known as being very good with tests like this.

YouTube - Illegal HID Convesion Kits Explained

I just do not believe in tampering with such a crucial part of driving, seeing and plain safety for yourself and others on the road. I want to bash in kids headlamps that have these on our roads here.
Unsafe and really, we all know the 164 never came with these lights. You want better lighting, add a better bulb.

Thanks for your info, i knew all that as I researched every Item there was on illegal HID Kits. I know that lumens is the amount of light that a bulb or source can produce. I studied 4 years Electric & Electronic Engineering, I think I might know a thing or two about light.

If you notice in all the videos, all the headlamps are without a projection lens. And Auto Express used a 8000K bulb hence blue hue.

I did say that the high beam on the 164 can't be legal as as you said the light scatters, however the projection lens doesn't. If you compare the lumens of a H1 Exteeme bulb (The Blue Coated Ones) and compare to a 6000K HID you'd be talking about a few hundreds of lumens barely noticable. I did one bulb and left the other to check too. I did this as an experiment to see what would be the outcome and I believe it didn't go so bad.

No offence to anyone, nor implying that others should do what I did but I did Manage to achieve results. Also in the auto express video was the comparison of the light with and without HID, the beam was scattered but on the 164 it doesn't ! The first prototype of the 166 was based on the 164 and infact quite similar. The lens is of the same type and size, even if you compare headlamps of a Series I you'll see that they are the same. manufactured by Bosch.

By no intention did I want to stir a panic or cause one, I just wanted to share my experiment's results. I agree with you on the Hi beam once again, I did it just to see how it looks.

Should this thread be an offence to anyone please, inform the moderator and remove it, by all means. I also said that Malta's VRT testing is tampered with so you could be right in some ways but as far as beam scatter and visibility, its just as the same as my H1 Exreeme Bulbs.

I appologize for any misinterpretation or anything similar. I again emphasize that this was a test an that I am not trying to persuade anyone in doing what I did.

I once again ask for the moderator to remove this thread if it offended or is creating problems with anyone.

Sincerely,

Keith

Originally Posted by keithhm

If you notice in all the videos, all the headlamps are without a projection lens. And Auto Express used a 8000K bulb hence blue hue.

I did say that the high beam on the 164 can't be legal as as you said the light scatters, however the projection lens doesn't.

I think Keith has a point here.
Quite possibly the reason for the projection lens is to allow the use of other light sources and still achieve accurate beam shaping.

It says a lot that the 166 Xenon lights appear to have the same projection lens as the 166 halogen lights. I'd be interested to hear Jason's comment, as I believe he has played with the projection lenses before.

BTW, high beam hardly gets used where I drive - there's always too much other traffic on the two-way roads - so I'd be quite keen for an dipped-beam-only HID conversion on my (projector-lamp-equipped) Mk2 Punto. The dipped-beam cutoff on this is very, very sharp and even has coloured blue and orange fringes as a result of the not-so-wonderful quality of the optics!

The Punto has the level adjuster motors but I'd like to know if they are supposed to be self-adjusting (for HID) or manual adjustment via a dial.

Two advantages I can see in HID light are a) the power usage is about half (a fuel saving? In the US, HP once claimed a one-mpg saving for converting taillights to LEDs rather than 21W bulbs!), and b) the colour illuminates the road surface better.

Our regulations are also quite clear in that it is not allowed to fit an HID 'bulb' into a reflector designed for a halogen bulb. Of course, you could read that to mean that it IS OK if the reflector were to be designed for either bulb - if this is possible.

-Alex

Originally Posted by keithhm

Thanks for your info, i knew all that as I researched every Item there was on illegal HID Kits. I know that lumens is the amount of light that a bulb or source can produce. I studied 4 years Electric & Electronic Engineering, I think I might know a thing or two about light.

If you notice in all the videos, all the headlamps are without a projection lens. And Auto Express used a 8000K bulb hence blue hue.

First off projection units or parabolic units(you should know the terms correct?) does not make a difference. They are all STILL HALOGEN BASED REFLECTORS. PERIOD! A HID capsule will not work in either one properly. It will give the illusion of a good beam pattern but if you actually know anything about "AUTOMOTIVE" lighting you will know this is not possible.

I did say that the high beam on the 164 can't be legal as as you said the light scatters, however the projection lens doesn't. If you compare the lumens of a H1 Exteeme bulb (The Blue Coated Ones) and compare to a 6000K HID you'd be talking about a few hundreds of lumens barely noticable. I did one bulb and left the other to check too. I did this as an experiment to see what would be the outcome and I believe it didn't go so bad.

Actually not what I was saying at all. I am not comparing a blue coated bulb, or referring to high beams or a 6000K capsule. I said that HID capsules in a halogen based reflector, projection or parabolic cannot be done correctly. You need to read the article, not watch the video. The article is done by an automotive lighting expert who works with man agencies and lighting manuf's. Trust me he knows his stuff. If you decide after reading it and reading it well that you still want to use the HID in a halogen based lamp, then I have nothing more to say.

No offence to anyone, nor implying that others should do what I did but I did Manage to achieve results. Also in the auto express video was the comparison of the light with and without HID, the beam was scattered but on the 164 it doesn't !

First off no one should do this. Second there are no results. The results are wrong and have been proven many times not only by AUTO express but by government agencies (European and NA). The scattered light that I am referring to is in the MAIN beam. NOT the HIGH. I have seen this on 164 headlamps before and there is no way that there is no glare, or scattered light from this setup. There is 100% scattered light because the WRONG light source in the Wrong reflector housing produces scattered light and by NO MEANS can created a correct beam pattern. 2 wrongs do not = A Right!!!!
I will say this once and only once, the only way to have a HID headlamp in a halogen based headlamp is to REMOVE the Projection unit in the lamp and replace it with a TRUE HID projection unit from another vehicle and use the correct based capsule, ballast and have the proper wiring including a relay on both to take the power.
I cannot post pictures but if I could you will see a true HID capsule is NOTHING LIKE A H1 Bulb.

The first prototype of the 166 was based on the 164 and infact quite similar.

Really? So now you work for Alfa R&D? Sure they make "LOOK" similar but does not mean a thing. an HID is very very different in design to a Halogen. There is a ton more research and development that goes into them. This is why they are very expensive. I know that sounds far fetched but very true. The reflector alone from an HID is far more advanced than a Halogen based. It takes the engineers a long time to get the beam pattern correct and to put the mass amount of light the HID puts out in the right spot so as not to OVER illuminate the front area of the car. They must properly put the light where it is needed, way in front and out to the sides as well. Too much in front and your PUPILS enlarge and your distance seeing decreases, Too much to the sides or far out in front may leave a black hole in the middle. So a simple kit made up by some guy in his garage, making a base for a a capsule to fit a H1 harness is not by any means the proper way of doing things. You can argue all day long about the light you have and how good it is. I have heard this a million times. Plain fact is you are not experienced enough in AUTOMOTIVE lighting to know the difference. You see more light, therefore it MUST be better.

The lens is of the same type and size, even if you compare headlamps of a Series I you'll see that they are the same. manufactured by Bosch.

Does not matter. It could be the same looking 100% but if 1 is HID and 1 is halogen, guess what...THEY ARE NOT THE SAME BY LIGHT YEARS!!!
By no intention did I want to stir a panic or cause one, I just wanted to share my experiment's results. I agree with you on the Hi beam once again, I did it just to see how it looks.
IF THIS WAS ONLY AN EXPERIMENT, FINE. BUT I WILL TELL YOU IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE. If you want HID's then buy HID projection unit in the same size from a vehicle that came with HID's (HID SPECIFIC) and replace them somehow, properly in the 164 headlamp unit. Otherwise a kit will not produce proper beam pattern, is dangerous to all and will fail at anytime anyway due to improper mounting, improper wiring, improper usage. Bare in mind as well HID headlamps have a suspension system in them to take some of the road shock out so that the capsule will not fail. Although your country probably will not enforce this or even have the ability to understand what you have done does not mean it should be done. I cannot stand when other drivers have done this. It really ruins the driving experience at night, makes it hard for other drivers to see which in turn can cause an accident, not only that you have reduced your night vision by 3/4 using this kit. You have completely lost your distance vision and have enlarged your pupils due to, again... the light being improperly focused!

Should this thread be an offence to anyone please, inform the moderator and remove it, by all means. I also said that Malta's VRT testing is tampered with so you could be right in some ways but as far as beam scatter and visibility, its just as the same as my H1 Exreeme Bulbs.

I do not think this is offending anyone but a good learning experience. This set up is not correct at all. Use a GOOD H1 bulb made by a good manufactuer like OSRAM, PHILIPS, NARVA...whatever. Stay away from BLUE coated bulbs. HID KITS that replace a bulb with a capsule and include a ballast (these are illegal and most companies have been shut down, fined and have to refund all their customers).
I prefer the proper bulb for the proper reflector which in turn = a good beam patter without a doubt. (sure some reflectors projection or Parabolic are not designed well but this BOSCH projection unit in the 164 is very well designed using a high quality H1 bulb and that the reflector and unit are clean inside and out(seals are good. No moisture leaks or dust leaks)
I appologize for any misinterpretation or anything similar. I again emphasize that this was a test an that I am not trying to persuade anyone in doing what I did.

I once again ask for the moderator to remove this thread if it offended or is creating problems with anyone.

Sincerely,

Keith

I think I have made my point. Research on the internet will yield a slew of misguided information on this subject. Very misguided info. Do you think if this was a proper kit to install car manufacturers would not be on the bandwagon to make money off these kits for installation on cars without HID's? Or Osram or Philips, or Narva or whom ever doing the same? No. Reason, does not work...PERIOD!

Thanks for listening. I do have automotive lighting experience and have worked in the automotive field for many many years.
Take it for what it is worth.
Oh BTW we tested this on a 164 as well. It was very very bad. Very bad. Another customer did it as well and removed them after a month due to not being able to see properly and being flashed by oncoming cars.
So if you have any sense, you will not do this. I could go on but if you cannot see it (LOL) with the article and what I have written here then again I have nothing more to say as I have been down this road with people who wanted or did this type of "KIT"!!

Thanks for your insight,

I don't work for Alfa Romeo SpA, I wish I did but I don't. However I know someone who has worked within the Fiat Group for 15 years, My Father. I've been to the plants but never to the museum. Now my dad works with the company that provides Automotive Paints for Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Ferrari (Basically the FIAT Group) and Mercedes Benz.

Recognize the photo, is it a 164 or 166? Its both! That was the starting ground of the 166, I just scanned it from a book on Alfa Romeo's History. If you don't want a lecture on how the 164 or any other Alfa Romeo was developed, don't mock me.

Look this should be a discussion forum and not a debate, I posted what I found when I did my checks. I am not a physicist and I am not expected to be treated as one.

I respect your opinions and the opinions of others, I ONLY wanted to share my findings. Isn't this forum supposed to do just that! Go on Ford, Rover, or VW Group Forums hell they help eachother trying to find a way to go around the inefficiencies of aftermarket HID and try together to use them and still abide to the law.

I end this thread with just one point, look at the Image of a Series I 166. Guess what SGR.55401 is the headlamp frame, its the same frame on both Xenons and Halogen. The codes for the entire headlamp are different due to the ballasts and electronics on the HID but if I know something in production it all comes down to money. Why design 2 Headlamps when you can design 1 that takes both !! They use the principles on chassis, hell the 164's floor pan is shared with 3 other cars. It all comes down to money.

I can't believe that a simple exercise I did which I am sure that many of Alfa Romeo Owners already did but don't care to write about it did all this. I am asking the Moderator to Remove this thread completely, and will send a formal mail to do just that.

Originally Posted by keithhm

Thanks for your insight,

I don't work for Alfa Romeo SpA, I wish I did but I don't. However I know someone who has worked within the Fiat Group for 15 years, My Father. I've been to the plants but never to the museum. Now my dad works with the company that provides Automotive Paints for Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Ferrari (Basically the FIAT Group) and Mercedes Benz.

First off I am not trying cause a battle here. But your Fathers experience is not your own.

Recognize the photo, is it a 164 or 166? Its both! That was the starting ground of the 166, I just scanned it from a book on Alfa Romeo's History. If you don't want a lecture on how the 164 or any other Alfa Romeo was developed, don't mock me.

To be honest I don't care about the picture 164 or 166 or both. Headlights and headlight technology between HID and halogen are what this post is about, not whether or no the 166 has anything to do with the 164. Mock you? What? I know the history. I know the 164 and the 166 and how they where developed. But the engineering behind Gas Discharge lamps and Halogen lamps are a whole different story that I think your not getting at all.

Look this should be a discussion forum and not a debate, I posted what I found when I did my checks. I am not a physicist and I am not expected to be treated as one.

Is that not what we are discussing? I am replying to what you are posting which is Wrong!

I respect your opinions and the opinions of others, I ONLY wanted to share my findings. Isn't this forum supposed to do just that! Go on Ford, Rover, or VW Group Forums hell they help eachother trying to find a way to go around the inefficiencies of aftermarket HID and try together to use them and still abide to the law.

There not opinions, this is a fact. Try registering your car in Europe, it will not pass. I guarantee it. Not only that you will sometime or another get pulled over and fined for this. I understand you sharing your findings which have no validation in the real world as your not able to give a valid result with no automotive lighting knowledge or the proper equipment like a photometer. You posted on a public forum and if you cannot handle my response, I guess thats your problem not mine. I am clearly responding to your post about retro fit kits and saying they are LEGAL when they are not legal at all. So in-fact I should say something as not to get this idea into others who may not realize it is illegal. Not for only it not being illegal but as mentioned dangerous!


I end this thread with just one point, look at the Image of a Series I 166. Guess what SGR.55401 is the headlamp frame, its the same frame on both Xenons and Halogen. The codes for the entire headlamp are different due to the ballasts and electronics on the HID but if I know something in production it all comes down to money.


Wrong again, sorry!
The code on the glass is not for the BALLAST it is for the type of REFLECTOR!!!! What the heck does the frame have to do with anything. We are talking about reflectors which I can guarantee are not the same. 100% guarantee it.
HCR for example is a halogen based reflector
HCR is a -Low/high (dip/main) beam headlamp, halogen
HR -High (main) beam headlamp or driving lamp, halogen
DC -Low (dip) beam headlamp, gas discharge (HID Xenon)
DR -High (main) beam headlamp or driving lamp, gas discharge (HID Xenon)
DCR -Low/high (dip/main) beam headlamp, gas discharge (HID Xenon)

Why design 2 Headlamps when you can design 1 that takes both !!

Look, I am sorry but with comments like this I clearly can see you do not have the proper knowledge of automotive lighting and clearly cannot converse properly to make a valid point.
Did you read the article? No you did not or did not understand the article or blocked out the information because you think your right. Why in the world and how in the world can the design a headlamp to take both halogen and HID? It is not POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!! They use completely different light sources with completely different designs. You also cannot fit a halogen bulb in a HID reflector and make that work properly either.

They use the principles on chassis, hell the 164's floor pan is shared with 3 other cars. It all comes down to money.

Does not have anything to do with the lighting or reflector used.The information is not valid to the post and does not make any point to your argument, in-fact I can tell more and more you have do not have this knowledge. I am sorry to point this out but you are talking too far out of your knowledge area.

I can't believe that a simple exercise I did which I am sure that many of Alfa Romeo Owners already did but don't care to write about it did all this. I am asking the Moderator to Remove this thread completely, and will send a formal mail to do just that.

Why are you asking for it to be removed? It is a good thread that shows that this kind of retro fit kit is useless and does not work. I have proved this here and many time before. Like I said here and in Europe almost all the vendors that sold these kits have been closed down, fined and had to take all the units back from who they sold to and refund them. If they did not they where fined more money. Why you ask? Because it is Illegal! Why is it illegal? Because 1 technology does not work with another that is far more advanced than the other.


I hope you realize that what you have done is not going to work. I pray you don't run into something at night because of the now no long distance lighting and major black holes in the beam pattern.

I say do it right. Either replace the whole reflector unit (located in the housing) with a DCR(code for HID reflector) in your existing housing which can be done. This is at least done right. But again you still won't pass regristration in any european country for example due to the fact that your out LENS with the code has a HC or HCR code and a HID light? Does not work. That is the reason for the codes as well. They are not there for the heck of it. Again HID does not work in a halogen reflector no matter how hard you look at it.

Good luck, I am done here.

I applaud you Keith for giving it a try - Interesting stuff. Nice to see the 164/166 development pic there also.

I think thread should stay - Don't be put off, I am sure our american enthusiast did not mean disrespect, maybe just the way it came accross!?

Originally Posted by Dougie166

I applaud you Keith for giving it a try - Interesting stuff. Nice to see the 164/166 development pic there also.

I think thread should stay - Don't be put off, I am sure our american enthusiast did not mean disrespect, maybe just the way it came accross!?

No disrespect at all, just stating facts in the best and clearest way possible to get the point across.
I will leave it at that.
Clearly I am "American" but I can tell you that I have a very good background in Automotive lighting whether in "AMERICA" or Europe and rest of the world. Worldwide, HID capsules will not work in any halogen based lamp.

If you feel you do not want to believe science, engineering and so forth then this post does need to end.
As I mentioned we tested these kits on a 164 here with European spec headlamps and they where far more awful than a low quality H1 bulb. No comparison. I could see 100 times better with the halogen bulb being correct, correctly aligned in the correct reflector as it came from the factory.

Ciao

Slightly off topic, well very off topic....but does anyone think the photo of the hybrid 164/166 styliing exercise actually looks better than the 166 in its first phase, cos I do. Thats how the 164 facelift should have looked IMHO..bit late now..hey ho.

Now stop arguing boys. Its been an excellent exchange of views, made from the heart as well as the head, which is as it should be. I for one have learnt something, for which I thank you both Jason and Keith. Malta has had to put up with far worse than a 164 with possibly dazzly headlights. I think the Maltese folk will survive the experience.

AlfaLincs

Dont know about 164, but i have never seen a HID not working on any projector lens.
Eu regulations are clear - you need to have projector lens, self leveling system and headlight washers. Then you can make it legal. Dont know what kind of kit they sell there in usa, in EU hid works but it is true it is mostly illigal becose no one bothers whit self leveling system an washers and hence it can be dangerus for upcoming traffic. But it is higly dangerus on non projector lens...

I am getting HID for my 166 soon becose it is very dangerus to drive with out xenon at night. Any 166 owner will tell you that. However police can give you a ticket for 800 EUR in my country for any tehnical malfunction on a car they find, but it is worth it becose my safty is the most important.

only my thoughts on this and what is going on in EU.

P.s. i had a 164qv too. Still miss it...

Originally Posted by Vesoljc

Dont know about 164, but i have never seen a HID not working on any projector lens.
Eu regulations are clear - you need to have projector lens, self leveling system and headlight washers. Then you can make it legal. Dont know what kind of kit they sell there in usa, in EU hid works but it is true it is mostly illigal becose no one bothers whit self leveling system an washers and hence it can be dangerus for upcoming traffic. But it is higly dangerus on non projector lens...

I am getting HID for my 166 soon becose it is very dangerus to drive with out xenon at night. Any 166 owner will tell you that. However police can give you a ticket for 800 EUR in my country for any tehnical malfunction on a car they find, but it is worth it becose my safty is the most important.

only my thoughts on this and what is going on in EU.

P.s. i had a 164qv too. Still miss it...

Has nothing to to with USA, The kits that replace a HALOGEN bulb with an HID capsule are not legal nor will ever be correct.

If you replace your 166 headlamps with 166 xenon headlamps that you purchased from Alfa romeo or a parts car (usually $1800-2800 USD), then yes with headlamp washers, self leveling it will be legal unless your country does not allow any changes to lamps.

Putting a cheap retro-fit kit ($150-300 USD range)into your existing halogen lamps is illegal and will produce too much glare for you and other drivers as well as not producing a proper beam pattern. You will not pass your countries inspections for lighting.

We are not talking about proper ways of changing lamps of halogen for HID (xenon) upgrade. Retro fit kits are illegal in the US and Europe.

The only way to do it properly if the vehicle like the 164 NEVER came with xenon lamps is to replace the entire projection unit with one that is suited for a xenon capsule. Otherwise it is not going to work.

Like I said since the 166 did come with the xenon option you can purchase the complete set of xenon lamps with ballast and install them on your vehicle and be safe and legal.
Most Xenon headlamps complete cost anywhere from $1800-2800 USD (Used can run a good $800-1200 USD) a cheap xenon retor fit kit can run $150-300 USD and are all over e-bay and other sites that promise a xenon kit that will be legal, safe and so on with GREAT pictures to prove it. Bare in mind Photo's of lights cannot be a true indication of the true light produced. They can market these kits all they want to make you believe it is correct, safe and provides more light, but they are wrong, they just want to make money on a crap product that is illegal even in the USA

I hope that clears this up. Please, I understand I live in the US but my points have no boundries. Xenon in halogen reflector(projection or parabolic) do not work, and halogen in a Xenon reflector do not work.
Xenon only works in xenon. Only 1 type of base capsule used.
Haolgen works only with halogen based on what type, H1, H2, H3, H4, HB4, 9007....etc....
Xenon capsules are on specified with a D2R or D2S numbering system. One with a shield for a parabolic (open style ) Lens and one with no shield for a Projection lens (enclosed).
There is no such thing as a H1, H2, H3 Xenon capsule (H stands for Halogen people!!!)

Anything with a D stands for DISCHARGE! (High Intensity Discharge- or HID) Xenon is the GAS used and is ignited in the capsule with a ARCH system.

I think there is way too much confusion on lighting. Please read the article. It will clear up all your confusion.

Ciao!