why do we suffer from inside tyre wear?

I gather from comments posted that the 166 goes through tyres at an astonishing rate.... especially at the front

This weekend one of my front tyres burst because the inside was worn straight through... while the outside and middle of the tread shows about 7mm..

Why is this? It cant just be tracking can it?


And what is the cure.....?

Can't be sure with the 166, but the 147 is not a scrubber. In fact the tyres all around seem to wear very even. Normally what you describe would indicate the tracking, toe-in/out needs adjusting, but camber could be another consideration, and bush play/wear? Castor would normally give you an indication on the steering wheel . Think those latter two, camber, castor, are pre-set on a 166, as are most models?:

I guess on either lowered car or worn bushes and suspension. And of course bad tracking(aligment) can cause this. I have it to on my car. I had bad wishbones on last year, and my front tires became rubbish because of to much camber on the front. Now with new wishbones and new suspension it is much better.

Originally Posted by alfaholik

This weekend one of my front tyres burst because the inside was worn straight through... while the outside and middle of the tread shows about 7mm..

Not nornal at all - Wrong tyre pressures, Worn bush(es), broken spring(s) or misalligned traking or a combination of all.

Tyre wear has been fairly even on both my 166's - My 156's wore slightly on the inner edge but not to your extreme!

I agree that's extreme. Generally, running toe-out makes tyres wear on their inside edges - especially when coupled with negative camber. I've no experience of the 166, but the 164 and 156 are both supposed to run a smidgin of toe-out. I would therefore expect the most wear to be on the inside but as a general indication, by the time mine are at the legal limit on the inside, they are only a millimetre or so off it on the outside.

In order of importance:

1. check tyre pressures.
2. check tracking (best take it to two or three places that offer "free" alignment checks and make sure they all say it's out by the same amount. I've found worrying differences between several large national retail tyre outlets and am not at all convinced that the staff can use the tracking gauges properly! Most front wheel drive cars seem to toe IN, so they might be a bit confused by the Alfa!
3. Check the big squidgy bush at the back of the lower wishbone. If that's soggy, it could cause toe-out.
4. Check the track rod ends.

Yours does seem like an extreme example, but I've seen noticeably more tyre wear on the inner edges of the front tyres on the majority of 166s I've looked at. The first 166 I had looked completely legal from the outside but the fronts were worn to the canvas at the extreme inner edge.

I put it down to:

1) the negative camber, that gives us the sharp turn in we love;
2) the fact that the 166 is a heavy car for a front wheel driver; and
3) how hard you drive... while the negative camber helps on turn in, I'm guessing that under heavy straight line acceleration you're putting more load through the inner edges of the tyres.

Found a good article on suspension design here: Caster, Camber, Toe

Hi All,

Problem sorted, I took it to my regular tyre chap and fitted 2 new goodyear eagles... (only £65 each which I thought was good).

He also re-did the tracking which was absolutley miles out!!!

He even had the book featuring the 166 and its toe out requitrements.

I'll check wear pattern in 1000 miles or so and see what happens... many thanks for all the advice..

how much did he charge for the tracking? i want to get this checked on mine..... is ther a way of checking tracking yourself? (i mean with limited tools)

Hi Pigfarmer,

£20 for tracking..

Good result then.:

Originally Posted by Pigfarmer

how much did he charge for the tracking? i want to get this checked on mine..... is ther a way of checking tracking yourself? (i mean with limited tools)

There is, but it's fiddly and time consuming.

Get the car on lever ground, having come to a stop whilst moving forwards (i.e. don't reverse it on to the lever patch). The front wheels need to be pointing straight ahead.

Set up 4 axle stands, paint tins or similar, one at each corner of the car. Run a length of cotton (or similar) down each side of the car paralell to the centreline of the car and to each other. Have them at approximately wheel centre height and an inch or so away from the tyre sidewalls. This is the really messy bit. I have two lengths of light steel tube with a groove in each end exactly the same distance apart. I put one in front of the front bumper and paralell to it and one behind the rear bumper, paralell to it. Each end rests on a pair of axle stands. That ensure that at least the two lines of cotton are paralell to each other. To get them paralell to the car centreline, measure from the centre of each wheel to the cotton on each side and keep shuffling the bars sideways until the distance from the cotton to each wheel centre is the same on each side. NOTE that if the car has a different track front and rear, the front and rear wheel centre at each end of the car won't be the same distance from the cotton. That's OK as long as the distance from front left centre to cotton is the same as the distance from front right centre to cotton (and the rears are also the same as each other).

You now have two lines paralell to the centreline of the car and paralell to the car's longitudinal centreline.

BE WARNED, IT TAKES AGES!!!!

Now measure from the leading edge of the front wheel rim to the coton and from the trailing edge of the front wheel rim to the cotton. The difference in the two distances is the "toe". If it is toeing OUT, the front edge of the rim will be closer to the cotton than the rear edge. Repeat for the other side. They might well be different - that just means the wheels weren't perfectly straight ahead. Depending on how the setting is quoted, you'll get the total toe setting by subtracting one pair from the other pair of readings (if that makes any sense!) In other words, suppose the right hand wheel is toeing OUT 3mm and the left hand wheel is toeing IN 1mm, the total toe is 2mm toe OUT.

You need to be extremely careful not to move the cotton when taking the measurements. They really need to be within 0.5mm!

It is a REALLY tedious job and very fiddly. I normally just cash out my £20!!!

Originally Posted by JeremyG

I put it down to:

1) the negative camber, that gives us the sharp turn in we love;
2) the fact that the 166 is a heavy car for a front wheel driver; and
3) how hard you drive... while the negative camber helps on turn in, I'm guessing that under heavy straight line acceleration you're putting more load through the inner edges of the tyres.

Found a good article on suspension design here: Caster, Camber, Toe

I think it's more the toe-out that tends to give the sharp turn-in, to be honest.

Worn tyres , most probably tracking [steering geometry], never bushes or suspension..ANd tracking on a 166 is tricky and not all tyre shops can do it..I had to go to different places to get it done properly.

Same on mine, getting it checked the same time as the belts and service !!! Lots of money !

Worn track rod ends will make the inside edges of the tyres wear out.
Due to the forward motion of the car trying to push the front edge of the wheels apart whilst moving forwards.

Originally Posted by alfaholik

I gather from comments posted that the 166 goes through tyres at an astonishing rate.... especially at the front

This weekend one of my front tyres burst because the inside was worn straight through... while the outside and middle of the tread shows about 7mm..

Why is this? It cant just be tracking can it?


And what is the cure.....?

Alignment is always the case. These cars are very very precise. Just like the 164 is. You need a shop that knows what the heck they are doing.
Remember to take it to a shop that is clean, ask them when the last time they had their machine was calibrated! Make sure they have the proper spec's for the 166.
You should be ok after that. If not then possibly worn control arm bushing.
JAson

Jason

I have a lot of inside wear on my '56 159. The AA engineer spotted it in his report when I bought her. He said it might just be the way Alfa set them up (Wheel geometry) in the factory, but after only 7000 miles, it'll cost me more in tyres than diesel each year. Bah!

My 166's front tyres were also ridiculously worn on the inside edge. And funnily enough, I had Goodyear Eagles fitted as replacements, as well.

Inside edge wear in my opinion comes solely from toe-out. My 164, due to aged suspension, has 3 degrees negative camber on its front wheels and it doesn't seem to affect the tyre wear.

I had a wheel alignment done to the correct spec. but it still feels 'odd' to me, nowhere near as stable as my 164. I suggest that the 166 wheel alignment specs are WRONG and the 1.8mm toe-out each side is not required - I reckon they should be set parallel. But then, compared with Alfa Romeo, what would I know?

-Alex

1.8mm PER SIDE?!?!?!?!?!

Surely that's "total" toe out?!

I know nothing about 166s but it sounds like an awful lot to me! My 164 manual specifies 1mm total toe-out unladen and a maximum of 2mm when laden!

I agree with you that toe-out makes more difference to inside tyre wear than anything else though.

Originally Posted by Avocet

1.8mm PER SIDE?!?!?!?!?!

Surely that's "total" toe out?!

I know nothing about 166s but it sounds like an awful lot to me! My 164 manual specifies 1mm total toe-out unladen and a maximum of 2mm when laden!

I agree with you that toe-out makes more difference to inside tyre wear than anything else though.

Yes - it was the 'official' figure PER SIDE
Like you I was rather surprised, and I prefer the steering feel of my old 164. I suggest to anyone getting their 166 aligned to perhaps go for a little less toe-out if they're at all concerned about tyre wear.

-Alex

Just had mine back from the dealer (159). I took it in becaust the steering wandered a bit at speed and I have wear on the inside rim, none of the conventional tyre people wanted to touch it i.e. Kwikfit etc. They told me to take it to Alfa as it may be a recall issue. Turned out the the wheels were a little "toe out" and they re-aligned them for me. Drives fine now. He he!!

Originally Posted by Telfordsteve

Just had mine back from the dealer (159). I took it in becaust the steering wandered a bit at speed and I have wear on the inside rim, none of the conventional tyre people wanted to touch it i.e. Kwikfit etc. They told me to take it to Alfa as it may be a recall issue. Turned out the the wheels were a little "toe out" and they re-aligned them for me. Drives fine now. He he!!

So - did they set them parallel - i.e. zero toe-out?
Then again, if it's a 159, that might be totally different

-Alex

Hi Alex, Not really sure. I have to go back there anywayso I'll ask and get back yo you.
Steve.