2.0 JTDm Remap booked - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 7Likes
  • 1 Post By mikeyw
  • 1 Post By symon
  • 1 Post By dc
  • 2 Post By symon
  • 1 Post By Larry92
  • 1 Post By Cyclone Sports
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 23 Old 07-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 122

Member car:

159 2.0 JTDm Ti

2.0 JTDm Remap booked

I have Celtic Tuning doing a remap on my 2.0 2011 Ti in August. 295 all in. When I bought the car, I thought it was the 170bhp, but after googling my engine code and other stuff, I find it's the 136 bhp, which explains why it's so slow. As far as I'm aware, it has the C635 gearbox.

Celtic Tuning's map will take it to apparently 215 bhp and 352 lb/ft. This is exactly the same as stated on their 170bhp 2.0 remap's.

Is there any risk I should be aware of with regards to reliability of it afterwards?
B_Tank88 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
dc
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
dc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,056

Member car:

Brera 2.2 JTS

I've used Celtic Tuning twice in the past and their remaps are top notch. I had a remap on a 1.9 GTD some time ago and the clutch was starting to slip when I sold it about a year later. Putting all that extra power through the drive train has got to have some sort of effect. Still, well worth it though...
dc is offline  
Status: Fully armed and operational tractor
AO Member
 
AlfaJoe92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hertfordshire
Posts: 648
Garage

Member car:

159 1.9 JTDm

Maybe get them to do a conservative remap to 170?

Atleast that way you won't be shortening the life of your components, do you really want to shell out 300 for a remap when in 6 months to a year you're going to then need a new clutch and possibly gearbox?
AlfaJoe92 is offline  
 
Status: On Alfa number 15
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 34,182
Images: 13
From what I gather the C635 box should be fine as long as you treat it with a bit of sympathy and have good quality clean oil inside it.

I am planning on getting my Giulietta done, and the gearbox was one of my concerns.

It is certainly a better box than the M32 in the 1.9, and plenty of those have been remapped.
symon is offline  
Status: Married with TI
AO Silver Member
 
mikeyw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,431
Had an angel remap for 6years and no clutch issues whatsover on my 1.9....maybe i should have paid more..
mikeyw is offline  
Status: Fully armed and operational tractor
AO Member
 
AlfaJoe92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hertfordshire
Posts: 648
Garage

Member car:

159 1.9 JTDm

Sounds good, what did you get yours remapped to? No other issues regarding the map?
AlfaJoe92 is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 23 Old 11-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 122

Member car:

159 2.0 JTDm Ti

Quote:
Originally Posted by symon View Post
From what I gather the C635 box should be fine as long as you treat it with a bit of sympathy and have good quality clean oil inside it.

I am planning on getting my Giulietta done, and the gearbox was one of my concerns.

It is certainly a better box than the M32 in the 1.9, and plenty of those have been remapped.
This is what I'm planning on, I'll keep in mind that there will be extra strain on the transmission so I'll be smooth with it.
B_Tank88 is offline  
Status: On Alfa number 15
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 34,182
Images: 13
I think they can handle the torque ok (same as the M32) but due to the design lubrication is a bit marginal on some of the bearings..

I have some Fuchs Sintofluid FE 75W ready to go in mine as it seems to recommended.
symon is offline  
Status: Married with TI
AO Silver Member
 
mikeyw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaJoe92 View Post
Sounds good, what did you get yours remapped to? No other issues regarding the map?
It's so long ago i can't remember the quoted figs but i believe around 175bhp.

Only issue is that it's a bit smokey on ignition but after that it's fine.
AlfaJoe92 likes this.
mikeyw is offline  
(Post Link) post #10 of 23 Old 22-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 122

Member car:

159 2.0 JTDm Ti

Right so the remap is done and I've been driving it for 5 days. Mine is a 2.0 JTDm, and I believe it is the 136bhp.

Technician arrived in plenty of time at my workplace and got started promptly, I left the keys with him and it was done about 1.5 hours later. I went for a drive in it after it was done and it didn't really feel any different. I made it clear before the work was started that I don't want any of the side effects such as smoking, clutch slip, etc or I will request it changed back. So the extra power is definitely there. Delivery is still very smooth generally, although on 1st and 2nd a bit of a kick when turbo comes in. It's not a big kick in the teeth, but it's there. 1st and 2nd gear seem unrestricted now, and there is more power for the length of the rev range in 3rd with good pull. Technician said only 0.1bar extra boost on the map. Looking at it on paper, my improvement is 136bhp to 215bhp. It doesn't seem like 80 bhp of a power gain, but then maybe that's what 215bhp feels like I'm not sure.

I'd glad I haven't witnessed any side effects yet, the car never smoked at all before, and it still doesn't. EGR is not blanked but it's deleted from ECU. Apart from the pull you can't tell it's been mapped, and that's what I wanted.

Giving it a few more days, I'm really glad the extra power is there. For 295 I'm very happy with what I got. Wouldn't have paid any more though considering the difference.

Providing the condition of the car sticks, I'd highly recommend Celtic Tuning on the 2.0 diesels.
B_Tank88 is offline  
Status: On Alfa number 15
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 34,182
Images: 13
If your car has gone from 136 to 215bhp it should feel massively different.
FiremanAxe likes this.
symon is offline  
dc
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
dc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,056

Member car:

Brera 2.2 JTS

Doesn't sound right. If you've got 215bhp you should be hanging on for dear life when you boot it. I had my diesel GT done a few years back and it went from 150bhp to 210bhp (or that was the claimed figure) and it transfored the car. I couldn't believe the difference.

I've used Celtic Tuning twice now and they have been very good. Have you tried really booting the car to see the difference. In gentle driving you probably aren't going to notice the extra power..
FiremanAxe likes this.
dc is offline  
Status: Fully armed and operational tractor
AO Member
 
AlfaJoe92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hertfordshire
Posts: 648
Garage

Member car:

159 1.9 JTDm

I'd love to get a map done, from 150 to 190 to keep it on the safe side, but the figures of over 1,000 for a new clutch and 2500 for a gearbox rebuild give me the shudders. If you're only booting it 1-3 times a week, is it really going to affect the components if for the rest of your time you are driving as per before, aka normal driving?

I gave it some boot yesterday chasing a Subaru, flooring it I was close to him, but wouldn't have been able to take him - it was in the wet though ;p. For 150 brake it's not bad.

2007 159 1.9 JTDM - Argento with Full Black Leather
Wheels: 18" Multi-spoke in Dark Anthracite
Chassis Mods: Powerflexed front-lower wishbones
Engine Mods: DPF/EGR Delete/De-Swirled
Exhaust: Wizard Dual Backboxes Conversion
Lighting Mods: 6500K HID's & Fogs, Osram LED Conversion, Tri-Halo Conversion
Aesthetics: De-Chromed Grille, Brera Nose, EZ Lip, Biscione plate badge & Decals
Future Mods/ Fixes: Ti Skirts, Eibach & Blisteins
AlfaJoe92 is offline  
Status: Why is the rum gone?
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater Manchester
Posts: 655

Member car:

159 2.0JTDm SW

I agree,

I had my 1.9 mapped from 150 to 180+ (IIRC) and that made a huge difference.
I've also had my current 2.0JTDm mapped from 170 to 210 and once again the difference is more than just a little bit noticeable.
(no smoke or any side effects, just lots and lots more power)

It shouldn't make a lot of difference in 1st gear,(and maybe second) the std power is more than enough to get the traction control working if you want quick get away so no point increasing the power in the lower gears.

Take it for a spin on the motorway (or a fast dual carriageway) it should pull like a train in 3rd and up, if you don't notice a difference I'd ask for them to check it (do it again)

I haven't used Celtic for either of my remaps, but I have read good things about them on here, if your not happy (or even sure you can tell the difference) talk to them, I'm sure they will do what they can.

Axe
FiremanAxe is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
OldSmokey159's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
County: -kent
Posts: 234
If you were making 215bhp you would know. Something isn't right.
OldSmokey159 is offline  
(Post Link) post #16 of 23 Old 23-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 122

Member car:

159 2.0 JTDm Ti

Don't get me wrong the difference is there. It definitely isn't hanging on for dear life. If anything 1st and 2nd are more transformed than anything. Not broken traction yet. 3rd onwards there is definitely more consistent power I just don't know if it's 215bhp. Maybe it is I don't know 😂

I boot it on most my journeys but to keep component stress minimal I only floor it on 2nd or 3rd gear over 2k rpm.

Maybe I'm used to the power sitting in other people's cars I don't know. Was in an M4 the other day. Obviously I'm not comparing it to mine, but THAT'S hanging on for dear life.

I am happy with the result it's worth what I paid and no side effects was the priority, so don't get me wrong, not complaining just feeding back.

How much does a dyno run cost?





Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
B_Tank88 is offline  
Status: Why is the rum gone?
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater Manchester
Posts: 655

Member car:

159 2.0JTDm SW

If your happy with it thats great and you have got your moneys worth.

:-)

If your car was the low power 136BHP model and you aren't amazed by the increase (holding on for dear life) then you haven't got 215BHP now, probably closer to 170BHP.

But lets not take anything away from the remap, If your happy then thats all that matters.

Don't bother with a rolling road, that will just cost you money and probably disappoint you, (Real world figures are generally much less than people expect, I used to have a Mini that was a real rocket ship, I used to chase 3 series BMWs down the motorway (back when classic minis were common) it produced 60+ BHP at the flywheel (just over 40 at the wheels) which sounded rubbish way back then, but I scared the crap out of a lot of much 'faster' cars)

Good to hear that your happy with it.

:-)

Axe
FiremanAxe is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
nogrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
County: -
Posts: 161
Not sure the claimed 352lb/ft is going to stand up to scrutiny, this is similar to a 4.7 V8 Maserati. Maybe it should be Nm. This would put the remap near to a 2.4 stock which is not the fastest of cars.
nogrip is offline  
Status: On Alfa number 15
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 34,182
Images: 13
Maybe they gave it an economy map along with the EGR delete?

You will get more power slightly, but as the name suggestst is it meant to increase fuel economy.

I have had turbo petrol cars chipped before now, adding around 40bhp (220 to 260bhp on my Fiat coupe), and you certainly know about that increase. You increase is supposed to be twice that, from a lower starting figure.

Is the 136bhp engine the same as the 170?

I am wondering if it isn't the same as on the 140 and 170bhp Giulietta, where the 140bhp version has a restictive intake and smaller turbo. In that case you won't gain as much power and torque.
AlfaJoe92 and Larry92 like this.

You will never be cool driving a Vauxhall, especially if it catches fire.
symon is offline  
(Post Link) post #20 of 23 Old 25-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 122

Member car:

159 2.0 JTDm Ti

Quote:
Originally Posted by symon View Post
Maybe they gave it an economy map along with the EGR delete?

You will get more power slightly, but as the name suggestst is it meant to increase fuel economy.

I have had turbo petrol cars chipped before now, adding around 40bhp (220 to 260bhp on my Fiat coupe), and you certainly know about that increase. You increase is supposed to be twice that, from a lower starting figure.

Is the 136bhp engine the same as the 170?

I am wondering if it isn't the same as on the 140 and 170bhp Giulietta, where the 140bhp version has a restictive intake and smaller turbo. In that case you won't gain as much power and torque.
I asked him after the drive if it was the 215bhp map and he said yes.

The problem is I don't know what 215bhp feels like. I know what 300 and 400+ feel like, but not 215bhp. 2nd gear foot down does launch you a lot better, but doesn't break traction or nothing like that. Maybe it's because I'm on Acceleras

Once again, you can feel it, 1st and 2nd are transformed. I just can't gauge if it's 80bhp more. Let me iterate again though after driving it more, I'm happy with the boost I got and for the price I'm not complaining.
B_Tank88 is offline  
dc
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
dc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,056

Member car:

Brera 2.2 JTS

I guess that if you are used to 400bhp then half that is going to feel a bit underpowered..
dc is offline  
Status: -
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ross-on-Wye
County: Herefordshire
Posts: 247
It does sound like something is off......I had my old merc ML remapped buy a guy who came round to my house for 200 quid and did for me blah blah....and maybe there was an improvement - I don't know....I guess maybe slightly but nothing that made you go wow.

However, when I had my 159 remapped by Autolusso, jebers do you notice the difference....not just grunt, but how low in the rev band the grunt comes on song. If you aren't wowed by your map given its meant to have added almost 90odd hp and I'd guess the same inlb/ft torque then something doesn't quite add up.

I don't want to do guys popping to your house a disservice necessarily, but anybody can get something crappy from somewhere and stick it on with a laptop.....

I'd certainly consider getting it verified and then kicking up a stink if you aren't within 10/15% of quoted gains.....
symon likes this.

'08 159 Lusso 2.4JTDm Q-Tronic Sportwagon

Last edited by Larry92; 28-08-16 at 20:48.
Larry92 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Cyclone Sports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Whitstable
County: Kent
Posts: 10
Wink

Our advice has always been to have sensible remaps in stages. It is not the power hike itself that causes the problems but how you use it. For example we often see cars literally fall apart on a track day and the driver looks all surprised saying that they have had none of the problems previously when driving on the road. A power hike will not just show up any transmission frailties but also brakes, cooling, tyres etc. It will of course cost more but will probably save in repair costs. Reputable tuning companies will also recognise the common sense of this approach and offer healthy discounts for your second or even third return visit.
AlfaJoe92 likes this.
Cyclone Sports is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 159, Brera & 946 Spider

Tags
booked , jtdm , remap

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome