159 2.4 JTDM Phase Sensor Fault - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 13 Old 23-05-16 Thread Starter
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Unhappy 159 2.4 JTDM Phase Sensor Fault

I have the above vehicle which suffered poor starting, which got progressively worse.I have the car in my local garage who have always looked after the vehicle. They hooked it up to their diagnostic equipment and the fault code P0340 was reported (Phase Sensor). They fitted a new phase sensor, I collected the car and it started and ran fine for approx 3 starting attempts. Then poor starting returned. 5 different sensors fitted, new battery fitted, ECU sent off for testing NO FAULT FOUND, wiring check carried our ok, crankshaft sensor disconnected (IMMEDIATE NEW FAULT CODE) and it would not start at all. When the vehicle actually starts it runs fine, and sometimes starts OK, and then won't, always returns the same fault code running out of ideas, Help, please, thank you.
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Out of interest Mark, did you have any luck finding a solution to this?
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(Post Link) post #3 of 13 Old 21-09-16 Thread Starter
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Unhappy Phase sensor fault

Thanks for asking, sadly no further forward, this remains a complete mystery......no response to my post other than yours!
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I just noticed your post when checking to see if someone had similar problems to one I am looking at right now, it has similar starting issues but a different fault code to yours.

Have you tried the basics, compression test, check fuel injectors are being commanded to fire by the ECU, done a leak-back test on the fuel injectors, checked on diagnostics that the ECU can see an output from the rpm sensor (crank sensor)?

Last edited by Pud237; 21-09-16 at 15:48.
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(Post Link) post #5 of 13 Old 22-09-16 Thread Starter
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Yes to most your questions, good output from both sensors, injectors all fine, spill line test ok, this video off youtube demonstrates very similar symptoms to my car. The difference being my car behaves like this hot or cold, but not on every occasion! What fault code is your car throwing up?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCurtoys View Post
Yes to most your questions, good output from both sensors, injectors all fine, spill line test ok, this video off youtube demonstrates very similar symptoms to my car. The difference being my car behaves like this hot or cold, but not on every occasion! What fault code is your car throwing up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JniHNn4e7Vs
P0016 cam/crank out of sync. Its not, the cam/crank timing is perfect. Woodruff keys on the pulleys are OK, cam sensor has been swapped for a known good one. Wiring checks out. Even checked the inlet cam (which isn't ECU monitored anyway) with a mirror. Strange thing is that the code will not clear once the engine has stopped cranking. Even if ignition is turned on and off. I've never known a P0016 code not to clear before, they always clear and re-appear again on cranking if the timing is incorrect. But the car is a bit of a mess, it came into us with a seriously bodged wiring loom.

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Wink

Crikey...good luck with that, bodged wiring loom....
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(Post Link) post #8 of 13 Old 26-11-16 Thread Starter
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P0016 cam/crank out of sync. Its not, the cam/crank timing is perfect. Woodruff keys on the pulleys are OK, cam sensor has been swapped for a known good one. Wiring checks out. Even checked the inlet cam (which isn't ECU monitored anyway) with a mirror. Strange thing is that the code will not clear once the engine has stopped cranking. Even if ignition is turned on and off. I've never known a P0016 code not to clear before, they always clear and re-appear again on cranking if the timing is incorrect. But the car is a bit of a mess, it came into us with a seriously bodged wiring loom.
I was on the point of giving up and selling the car through an auction, I did a final trawl of the web, and came out with "swirl flap problems" on an independent ***** specialist website, "Autolusso". I telephoned them, and felt the fellow I spoke to knew what he was talking about, and took the car to them. The problem turned out to be as a consequence of the timing belt having been fitted incorrectly "using tipex marks", and not the special tool a specified by ***** Romeo. Autolusso, cured the problem, and also persuaded me to do an EGR valve delete, and swirl flap delete (although there was no fault with the swirl flaps at the time). I am delighted to report that the car is now driving better than at any time since I owned it, coupled with an improvement of between 5 - 8 MPG.

Last edited by MarkCurtoys; 29-11-16 at 13:04.
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I've seen people get phase sensor diagnostic results on GM Alloytec V6s and presume it's a sensor fault. Invariably chain stretch is the issue (which predicates the same problem you experienced of incorrect cam timing). Hence my initial thought on reading Post #1 was "Timing's out"... Glad it's sorted for you!
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Use camshaft-tool to lock camshaft (mount it & rotate engine by hand until tool "clicks" & has locked camshaft)

Use a uMeter dial in cyl1“s glowplug-hole to put pison at TDC

Mount cambelt & tighten it up as specified.

(be sure you dont move crankshaft wile mounting cambelt)

remove camshaft-tool & umeter dial

rotate engine twice by hand (On crankshaft)


Use camshaft-tool to lock camshaft

Loosen camwheel/its bolt just enough so camwheel can move a bit

Use camshaft-tool to lock camshaft as described earlier

Use a uMeter dial in cyl1“s glowplug-hole to put pison at TDC (Very accurate this time)

Secure camwheel“s bolt

remove umeter & camtool

"Test-spin" the engine by rotating it at least two times by hand..If any lockup occours..You scr*** up & start over.

Remove everything, put car together again & hey, if you did remember to replace the waterpump, you are a true Alfistimech & car starts on first try...At least on cambelts :-D

I think most doesnt know about loosing of cambolt & after 2 revolutions, the equalization of belttension has moved the timing a bit, so needed...

All obove offcourse on own risk etc.. :-)
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Where did you get that procedure from?

Normally the crankshaft is locked when fitting the belt & setting the tension by use of the crankshatt locking tool, which also functions by keeping cyl 1 at TDC. This is in addition to the camshaft locking tool.

Tension is applied with the camshaft sprocket loose, so the side of the belt from the camshaft over the idler back down to the crankshaft is also tensioned (the fuel pump pulley and waterpump pulley are not timed and move freely). Tension is set to maximum, the locking tools removed, engine rotated a few times, then locking tools re-installed and tension set to the pointer.
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The locktool i have, bought for the 2.4, does ot fit...Probably a cheap cpoy of a copy...Never seen crankshaft move anyway, but when my cambelt broke (it ate a jumped generator-belt) i had to find a way of timing it & have used umeter-dial ever since :-)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCurtoys View Post
I was on the point of giving up and selling the car through an auction, I did a final trawl of the web, and came out with "swirl flat problems" on an independent ***** specialist website, "Autolusso". I telephoned them, and felt the fellow I spoke to knew what he was talking about, and took the car to them. The problem turned out to be as a consequence of the timing belt having been fitted incorrectly "using tipex marks", and not the special tool a specified by ***** Romeo. Autolusso, cured the problem, and also persuaded me to do an EGR valve delete, and swirl flap delete (although there was no fault with the swirl flaps at the time). I am delighted to report that the car is now driving better than at any time since I owned it, coupled with an improvement of between 5 - 8 MPG.
Pleased to hear it

We do lots of these and they run beautifully once they are done properly

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