Swirl flaps How To and MAF clean How To anywhere? 159 1.9 - Page 9 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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I didn't use Mr Muscle on the compressor side, just the carbon covered cast-iron bits and VNT components. My entire inlet manifold alloy part and EGR bracket are blackened by it.

You mean the 3 studs that secure the HP pump? They just unscrew from the alloy bracket, normal RH thread so counterclockwise, using either a stud extractor or two nuts locked together then spanner on the lower one. I had to remove the lower front one when dismantling, else I'd never have managed to get the inlet manifold off. I removed all the studs that held the manifold onto the head, at the same time, which was easy with a stud extractor once I'd removed the plastic plenum chamber part of the manifold.

You'll probably find you need to transfer across some of the studs from your old head to the reconditioned one, as AL just include a random selection. My old ones were in better condition so I transferred the lot.

I've used a stud extractor more on this job than on every other vehicle I've owned put together. Mine is years old but identical to this.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/pro5...extractor-set/

Last edited by halftone; 31-01-16 at 11:17.
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Super thread chaps. Hope you both get it sorted.


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I got a confession, I cut off one of the studs to get the manifold off at the beginning of the project. That's why I enquired at the dealers for replacement. I'm now thinking how will I remove the remains of the stud and put a replacement in. I cut it just where the thread ends so there is no thread to grab onto now. But there is alittle of the stud sticking out.

Before anyone points out, it was a silly move I know. Slap my wrists.
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Would vice grips be strong or grippy enough to get the remains of the stud out?
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One question I have is: what exactly is the tightening torque and procedure for head bolts? (Not sequence - that is shown).

Elearn is hopelessly terse, saying only '62 68 90 90 90' in the procedure section, using an Alfa protractor tool that I guess must have a preset torque value. I only have a torque wrench and protractor attachment.

In the Settings section there is this (see 2nd pic), which I can understand as perhaps how to do it without the tool. EG tighten to 2.0 on the first pass, 4.5 on the second, then plus 90deg on the 3rd, 4th, 5th passes.

And even if that's right, what bleedin' units of torque are they using? 2.0 what? Newton meters? Kg meters? 100g /10cm (a Suzuki favourite)? I'd expect probably N m but can't see it stated anywhere....

I really don't want to guess this stuff and get it wrong.
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Originally Posted by Resolution View Post
Would vice grips be strong or grippy enough to get the remains of the stud out?
Mole grips might well work. Specially newish ones with sharp jaws and a solid grip. Get all grease off the stud first with brake cleaner. There's no tension holding it tight, and unlikely to be any corrosion in that location. 90% chance it will come out easily.

If it doesn't, try some heat from a propane torch, then try when hot.

If it still resists, you can file/grind flats on the stud that you can get a small spanner on, or a better purchase for Mole grips. But beware breaking off the stud remains, that is a world of pain involving drilling and Eezi-outs. Better, buy/borrow a MIG welder and weld a nut onto the remains and unwind it whilst still hot.
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Head bolts tightening torques from Auto data are
1. 32-38Nm
2. 62-68Nm
3. +90 degrees
4. +90 degrees
5. +90 degrees
It also says that the bolts can be used 4 times.

With the broken stud, if it doesnt come out with mole grips then I wouldnt use an eziout, its only an m8 stud so the ezi out is liable to break which will then be a real pain to get out, just drill a small hole centrally and then the correct size to then run a tap into it.
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Thanks for the tips chaps.

THB, I asked Ned before I touched it and how to get the inlet manifold past it, but I'm not sure if there was a misunderstanding. He told me to remove the whole alloy bracket, and when I couldn't figure that out I thought, stuff it, hacksaw came out. But as I say, their must of been a misunderstanding as removing the studs is such an easy job. Just didn't have the know how at the time.
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Even though all there has been from any outsides following this thread is comments of support, there may be some sceptics out there who think why on earth do DIYers take on such large scale jobs if they have do know all the necessary knowledge to start with.
I bought this car nearly a year ago as a second vehicle after the unfortunate events of my wife having an accident writing off one of our previous cars. I did (what I thought at the time) enough research on this amazing forum to commit to a purchase of a vehicle I fell in love with when they first released it many years ago. I travelled 300miles across the UK to buy it, private sale, obviously in cash.
Not long after buying this vehicle, we got the awful news that I was to be made redundant from 13yrs of service with the company I worked for due to closure of the branch I worked.
My redundancy pay, paid for the failure of the crap M32 gearbox to be repaired. Anything left after that paid for 4 replacement suspension coils and brakes (discs & pads) all round. Unfortunately due to my long service for my ex employer and my particular skill set I have specialised myself in, I am still struggling to find employment amongst other minor factors. This is why my only option is to work on this craply designed engine myself. Through good sources, if this was left to a garage, if they knew the fault, it would be a 1600+. A DIY repair is about a third of that taking into account fluids and engine cleaners etc.
I need to hold off proceedings for a week due to finances unfortunately. But I am not giving up Living on one income with three kids, 2 cars, mortgage and whatever else for a long period is not recommended.

We need two cars, but does anyone what to buy a cheap broken Alfa

2009 Alfa 159 Ti 1.9 JTDM (red)

● M32 gearbox rebuild (within 1000miles of purchase, replaced bearings and clutch)
● Eibach pro spring replacement (all round) due to 2 failures (front and rear drivers side)
● BREMBO discs and pads all around replaced (courtesy of alfasportiva)

Wish I bought a 2.4.
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Good on you for getting on with it, and its not the ideal time of year for doing a big job on the drive but there is plenty of good advice from experienced people on here, just out of interest where in the uk are you and halftone?
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I'm in Swansea, and I wish I had a drive, even though it's a nice enough semi detached. It's a street job I'm afraid.
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It would be nice to always get someone to repair and maintain our cars but some of us just do not have the money to do that. I buy older cars and maintain them myself largely out of necessity. Re sceptics about you taking on a job you do not have the necessary knowledge for, well, I always take the view that I may not know everything about the job when I take it on but I will know all I need to know when it is finished -there is a lot of info available on here and elsewhere. Personally I think you should be applauded for having the b4lls to take this on rather than throw in the towel. Thanks to your efforts (and others) this thread has been very informative. Hope I'll not have to refer to it again though
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JON156VELOCE View Post
Head bolts tightening torques from Auto data are
1. 32-38Nm
2. 62-68Nm
3. +90 degrees
4. +90 degrees
5. +90 degrees
It also says that the bolts can be used 4 times.
Excellent, thanks for that - specs that make sense, at last.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halftone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JON156VELOCE View Post
Head bolts tightening torques from Auto data are
1. 32-38Nm
2. 62-68Nm
3. +90 degrees
4. +90 degrees
5. +90 degrees
It also says that the bolts can be used 4 times.
Excellent, thanks for that - specs that make sense, at last.
Can this be explained any other way to someone whos got no experience with with torques. It's the 1 to 5 I don't understand as the are 10 head bolts.
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You first tighten all 10 bolts in the correct order to 32-38, then repeat again for the 10 bolts in the correct order tightening to 62-68, then once all 10 done start again at the first one and tighten all 10 in order 90 degrees each, then repeat it twice more tightening all 10 bolts 90 degrees each time in order.
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There are two aspects to this. Head bolts have to be tightened in the correct sequence, and also progressively, so that the stresses in the head bed it down completely flat.

The (numbered) tightening sequence is shown in the first eLearn image I posted at http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/14293193-post205.html (Swirl flaps How To and MAF clean How To anywhere? 159 1.9)

As you can see, the central bolts are tightened first, and then the others are tightened in a diagonal pattern, spreading out from the centre of the head. This minimises stresses that might distort the head and cause it not to seal properly. For the same reason you can't just torque each one to the final tightness in one go, you do it progressively.

The progression is given by the figures jon156veloce gave

What this means is
- first you follow the tightening sequence (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) with your torque wrench set to 35Nm
- next you go through the same sequence "" with " " " " " 65Nm
- next you go through the same sequence, tightening each bolt by 90 degrees of wrench movement
- then you do the same again
- then you do it a final time
and that is job done.

So each bolt has been tightened to 65Nm then tightened a further 270 degrees, in stages, and in the right order. Which is f-word tight, and explains why they took a 600mm breaker bar to undo. I'll be using it for those 90deg swings, my torque wrench is not long enough to get controlled leverage.

This diagonal, progressive tightening is good practice for most components that have multiple attachment points, especially those made of aluminium. Start with inner fastenings and work outwards diagonally. The inlet and exhaust manifolds on our cars especially. How tight is difficult and very much a matter of experience where there simply isn't room to use a torque wrench. Try and remember how tight they were when you undid them, and use a little less force as they're not now stuck by corrosion. I don't think any of the bolts and studs we've encountered are high tensile steel like head bolts, just normal mild steel. Use a short ratchet handle (5-6") and you won't find it as easy to overtighten/strip threads as using an 8 or 9" spanner and gorilla force. The aim is to stretch the bolt into its elastic region just enough to maintain tension that stops it coming undone. Beyond the elastic range the metal breaks.

When putting studs into components, they should only just be screwed home, not tightened against the end of the hole or thread. Tension on the stud that keeps it in place, is supplied by the nut eventually used to secure the part.

If you ever take a cylinder head off again, nb you should also undo them progressively and diagonally, starting with the outer bolts and working in. How much, it's not critical, but try and keep tightness similar and go through the diagonal sequence 2-3 times until they're loose. One of the purposes of skimming the head surface is to eliminate any lack of flatness arising from distortion, so don't worry if you didn't do that with your old head.

Meanwhile I discovered my nice clean turbo VNT vanes were still a bit sticky as I put the thing back together, due to a small amount of rust on the housing that I've now removed. I'll post some pics later.
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Thanks again chaps. Great simplification of the head bolt procedure. It's what I thought but as iv never touched something like this I want to be 100% knowledgeable when I come to do the work.

Manifold turbine and turbo
The whole thing is cleaned now. I have replicated images from before it was clean to show the difference. Other images will follow of the parts iv not shown in the next few days.
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Pics
1. As dismantled. No oil, not much carbon, no fragments of swirl flap. But the variable vane was sticking at about half-open.
2. I put it together again loosely, and the vanes now opened fully and scraped these marks in the rust. Some pitting in the WO position.
3. Internal surfaces cleaned up c/o abrasive paper.
4. Vanes replaced and operate smoothly and correctly now the turbo has been reassembled.

I've no real idea why the rust, but of course it wouldn't be dealt by cleaning with a caustic turbo cleaner product without dismantling the turbo.

EDIT actually by the time I shot #1 I had let the carbon dissolve in Mr Muscle and washed it out, it wasn't this clean to start with.
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Last edited by halftone; 02-02-16 at 00:01.
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Complete service and overhaul on turbo manifold turbine complete.

Before and after, also inners before complete assembly.

If anyone who isn't up to speed with the thread is thinking why on earth the turbo is off when this is a swirl flap thread. If (when) your swirl flaps break off the spindles they are attached to, they will fall into the cylinder head where the valves jump up and down. They might get stuck in there, but they are more likely to fall past the valve into the combustion chamber where the Pistons go up and down. This acts like a hammer bashing the small steel flaps and you will get heavy damage in there. In some cases the flaps will damage the the bottom end of the engine which is biggest job it could be. The flaps will break up into pieces most likely and go out the exhaust valves in the head and out the exhaust manifold. Next thing they can damage is the exhaust turbine which in inside the exhaust manifold (red part pictured below). The blades/impeller inside can get damage with other implementations that write off the whole turbine/turbo. If your lucky the small remains of the flaps will pass through this part and get caught inside the catalyse.


Key point, do not let it get to this stage, it's a big job regardless of what state the swirl flaps are. Get them removed ASAP.
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Last edited by Resolution; 02-02-16 at 16:50.
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Incidentally, if anyone wants a brand new Magneti Marelli plastic-plenum inlet manifold pt. no 55202680 for CF4 1.9 16v JTDM Alfa, I have one to sell.

It's never been fitted. It is complete with a new actuator, new gasket and new MAP sensor.

Like this: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=s...476&sku=185647

I bought it before starting all this, thinking that new parts would be a solution to swirl flap failure.

I since changed my mind, and have re-used my old manifold after removing the flaps and blanking the holes, as seen earlier in this thread.

I can't recommend anyone buys it to retain swirl flaps, but if you need to de-flap and get your car back on the road ASAP here's a manifold that can be de-flapped ahead of time, and fitted without having to clean carbon from a choked old manifold.

Price: 50 + postage, which for most of UK mainland will be 10. This is less than the cost of the new MAP sensor by itself (53).
If you want me to de-flap the manifold and tap and blank the spindle holes with Loctited bolts, I'll do that for an extra 25.

PM me or email me tonysleep-at-halftone.co.uk if interested.
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Nice price. Get it on eBay and make a few more quid on it.

Thread lock on reassembly. Is this a necessity and where does it need used? I believe there is permanent and semi permanent stuff. Which do I use? Also regarding copper grease, should this be used anywhere, if so where?

I used permanent type threadlock on the swirl flaps spindle holes where I have blanked them.
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I paid the same for it. It was sold by a guy who'd bought it then had his car written off before it could be fitted. Just taking up space now.

Generally no, thread lock isn't required. It's generally reserved for fixings that are subject to vibration and movement, where it's insurance against bolts coming undone, fixings inside gearboxes etc. Think of it as chemical Nyloc. A properly torqued fastener should not normally come undone anyway. Usually workshop manuals should tell you the specific locations threadlock is needed, and what type, and you shouldn't need it anywhere else.

Permanent is good on the blanking bolts in your manifold, you never want them to come out ever again.

I have a longstanding love of copper grease, I tend to use it almost everywhere, and especially on exhaust and suspension threads, and steel-into-aluminium situations where corrosion is a big issue. I hate stripped oil drain plugs and spark plugs, it need never happen. You only need a very little to prevent seizure, the thinnest of wipes, not great dollops of the stuff. It's not a lubricant, you don't use it as grease but just a means to deliver a film of copper between the metals.

I have half a mind to take out the Alfa's subframe bolts one by one and Copaslip them and put them back, just because they are so notorious for seizing, and a right pain when they do. Maybe in the spring...

Pro technicians almost never use it, as it slows down productivity, and if a bolt seizes in a few years time it's unlikely to be their problem. I have tended to keep vehicles a very long time, and it has made an amazing difference to ease of maintenance to actually be able to undo things in 10 or 20 years time without heads snapping off and threads stripping. My 1988 Suzuki motorcycle is a pleasure to work on rather than a nightmare, because of copper grease!

You probably shouldn't use it on head bolts, though - just slightly oiled - because of the critical torque settings.
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Top tips once more from a seasoned pro, thank you.

Iv an aerosol copper grease, so I will use that. Bought it when replacing all the suspension coils and can see it's good stuff. Debatable if the spray is any good compared to a tube/tin. I'm sure the latter is better.
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I'm sure the aerosol stuff is fine, just more expensive than a pot of the stuff. 9 times out of 10 when I point an aerosol at something, I miss. I'm about half way through my third 500ml tin in 30 years, it goes a long way. I put a hole in the lid so I could park a piece of coathanger wire in it that I use like a small trowel to dab a bit on bolts or inside nuts and threaded holes. An old toothbrush helps spread it around on bolt shafts that might seize, eg motorcycle mfrs are very fond of putting long, heavy steel bolts right through the frame and alloy engine castings where they will weld themselves in place forever. It's all very old school/brown overall, and OCD.

Thinking about it, I have used it on head bolts at least twice, with no ill effects, but some will say you shouldn't.
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Iv cleaned he bodies of the 4 fuel injectors. Is there anything I need to lookout for or be careful touching. I can't see where the fuel actually comes out. I expected to see a small hole on the tip of the injector
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