Swirl flaps How To and MAF clean How To anywhere? 159 1.9 - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #76 of 410 Old 19-01-16 Thread Starter
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For anyone who's wondering what the hell this is all about. The picture below will show.

#1 the part that holds 4 swirl flap, these are the holes that have a pin inside, but attached to the pins should b a flap

#2 bottom view of the plastic cover where the cogs/bearings that control the mechanism are enclosed

#3 plastic cover removed shows the four plastic tooth cogs and once master cog

#4 master cog close up which attaches to the motor.

#5 worn plastic connector bar removed

#6 worn teeth on spindle cog, like a flat spot. All four like this as well as the connector bar.

My kids toys are made of better materials! Thats a big problem with this manifold. And secondly the large carbon build up these engines get due to the EGR valve.

Warning if you have this engine, get the swirl flaps checked and taken out. Get the EGR blanked off and a remap to have it deleted.
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I'm not sure the recon head is a necessity, just a precaution. I will look into it tomorrow.
Stripping, cleaning out all the carbon and filth, checking valves/guides/springs, skimming advisable so have to take it somewhere and then collect it days later, regrinding valves, reassembling it... nah, Ned's 200+VAT is a steal to avoid all that, even if the existing one is undamaged. Even if it means I have to take the bus for a bit longer.

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My biggest worry n least knowledge is with the timing of engine, setting it and what to do. Auxiliary belts iv replace on other cars before but nothing with cam belts. Last couple of cars iv had used a cam chain so didn't have anything to worry about.
I'm more used to chains on DOHC motorcycles, and they're much worse than this, trying to wriggle cams through tricky slots in chainwheels whilst keeping everything aligned. Really this is a doddle, use the timing tools (about 25 on eBay) and just check everything twice then check again. This is pretty clear and helpful: How to Replace timing belt on Alfa Romeo 156 1.9 JTD 16V 2002-2005

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All the parts iv taken off I have cleaned and they are ready for going back on. But iv been thinking of a spray painting some parts to make them easier to keep, obviously with be right heat proof paint.
I have an intriguing satin black finish on my inlet manifold and EGR block now, which I cleaned with the (very effective) Oven Cleaner that comes in an orange carton with a large zipseal plastic bag to put the bits in. It did an ace job of dissolving the carbon, but the black seems to have plated out on the aluminium by some bizarre process, and won't come off with brake cleaner or anything else, even using Scotchbrite. It's not etched the alloy, just dyed it black, like anodising. Possibly I shouldn't have left it soaking overnight ;-)
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(Post Link) post #78 of 410 Old 20-01-16 Thread Starter
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Progress today...cleared all the electrics and removed fuel rod and all connecting components, all cam cover bolts off and any other odds and ends i could move outta the way. Came to a stop as I am stumped with how to get the fuel injectors off, or even if I have to remove them. I didnt want to play with them incase i did some damage. I will start a new thread asking this question to catch a wider auidence but if anyone could add it here I would be most grateful.

I also got the loan of a USB inspection camera, came with an array of attachments, lights on end etc. But the swirl air tract still too tight to poke it into. I got it in about 2/3 of the way. Nevermind, heads coming off anyway.

Another reason for stopping is that im waiting on an ALFA ROMEO 1.9 DIESEL TIMING BELT LOCKING TOOL KIT which i should get tomorrow.

I tapped the holes in the air intake manifold where the swirl valves used to be ready for some bolts to be locked into place as a replacement. A previous post from another member quoted a 8.5mm hole to be drilled for a M10 thread to be added. The original hole doesnt requirer drilling unless its worn. A M6 tap will give a good thread. I messed two of my tap attempts up so used a 6mm drill bit, made all holes slightly bigger and used a M7 tap and it work a treat. Ready for the bolts now.

2009 Alfa 159 Ti 1.9 JTDM (red)

● M32 gearbox rebuild (within 1000miles of purchase, replaced bearings and clutch)
● Eibach pro spring replacement (all round) due to 2 failures (front and rear drivers side)
● BREMBO discs and pads all around replaced (courtesy of alfasportiva)

Wish I bought a 2.4.
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Dont tell me, theres a tool to remove them? Can anyone confirm this please. Do I need to remove them or will they come off with the cam cover when i remove it?
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I just watched this video, i know its not a 159, but serious!!! How on earth am i going to do this job and get the top end of the engine apart. Can it be done without the tools anyway at all?
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A mechanic friend of a relative who knows how bad these engines are, has said the fuel injectors will come with cam cover when I lift it. Can anyone confirm this?
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I took my injectors out today.

NB IMPORTANT! scribe or write the cylinder number on each injector body before removing them. They must go back in the same cylinders as each is coded to the ECU.

Undo the single nut that secures the clamp. Don't try to remove the clamp separately, it and the injector come out together.

There is of course a fabulously expensive special tool that nobody has, but with any luck you won't need it. Spray some Plusgas at the base of the injector where it enters the head. Let it sit for a while. Then pull and wiggle the injector at the same time. The clamp doesn't allow much movement, but keep at it and it should eventually lift out. If not, spray more Plusgas and let it sit longer.

Mine came out very easily, but the previous owner had them professionally cleaned last year.

I got stuck on the bracket for the head steady. 2 vertical hex bolts, easy, 1 horizontal ribe bolt, no poxy room for my ribe socket. Which I had to dismantle into two parts, and will try again tomorrow with a 10mm ring on the ribe bit, as it was getting dark.

Then I adjourned to the shed with a cup of tea and drilled, tapped and blanked the spindle holes in the inlet manifold.

The spindle holes turned out to be just 5.42mm dia when I measured them (find a drill that just fits, then measure the drill). Yours may be larger, mine weren't worn. I drilled them out to 7.1mm (odd size, but a 9/32" HSS bit was all I had , and then tapped them M8 x 1.25mm. Almost any bolt would work, but I had some mushroom-headed stainless M8 bolts in two lengths, 10mm (too short) and 20mm (too long), left over from a futile tidying attempt on my wife's motorcycle. The heads fit just perfectly over the mouldings that the pinions had sat in. I cut the long ones down to 15mm, deburred them, threadlocked them and tightened them up. Different bolts might need to be longer or shorter, depending on where they sit. Precision engineering it is not. Drill, tap, hacksaw, file. Job done.
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Quote:
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I just watched this video, i know its not a 159, but serious!!! How on earth am i going to do this job and get the top end of the engine apart. Can it be done without the tools anyway at all?
Yes! Unless you are really, really unlucky and the injectors are seized, corroded and carboned in place, they'll come out by hand with no tools at all except Plusgas and patience. There are other creative methods for recalcitrant ones (methods vary - search the forum). That scaffold job is the last ditch, expert kit possessed by the Bosch injector guy with a van that you call out and pay if all else fails.

The bloke is obviously a complete pedant on an hourly fee, taking the common rail to bits like that.
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A mechanic friend of a relative who knows how bad these engines are, has said the fuel injectors will come with cam cover when I lift it. Can anyone confirm this?
I think they will, but you may struggle to lift the cam cover off if the injectors are stuck in place since they are seated in the head. Carbon on the nozzle in the head is what is likely to make them difficult to remove.

[EDIT: I mean: if it's difficult to remove one, removing four at a time along with the cam cover is probably not going to be easier]
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Last edited by halftone; 20-01-16 at 20:40.
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Don't try and lift the cam cover until the injectors are out. The cam covers also sometimes seize onto the injector clamp studs so they need a lot of working back and forth to get them up.

I found with the injectors, use two pry bars, one above the fuel pipe connection, one below, so you are in effect twisting the injector back and forth within the limits of the clamps movement. As you work it back and forth it will free up more and more. Lots of plusgas, keep at it, eventually the twisting movement will allow them to lift.

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Any luck with the injectors yet, Resolution?

The good news: I now have all the timing stuff and cambox off. Cams, rockers, lifters and everything look to be in very good nick. I'll clean everything, especially oilways and lifters in view of the occasional lifter rattle that started all this, before reassembly. Unless of course it was swirl flap shrapnel battering the piston ;-/

The bad news: I am now stuck at the Ribe cylinder head bolts. They are larger than I have a bit for. M14 I think - at least they are 14mm across the widest part of the Ribe socket. Can anyone confirm the size please? I'll need to buy one, 1/2" drive for the torque wrench.

The only other problem I have at present is the monstrous high pressure pump support bracket. I think there are attachment bolts underneath that are sods to get at with, but I can't make out whether they just fix the bracket to the head, or tie it to the block as well. Does this bracket have to come off before the head can be removed, or can the head be removed with it still attached?

One last thing: are the head bolts the single-use 'stretch' type, or can they be re-used? I see Elearn refers (incomprehensibly) to setting the torque by angular displacement which usually means stretch-once-then-throw-away type. Bet they aren't cheap, if so

Last edited by halftone; 21-01-16 at 18:26.
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Today's effort see's the cam cover off.

Obviously worked the injectors out in the end, that alone took most of the day. Not the most pleasant job. Thanks for everyone's input, couldn't have done that one with out your help. Iv cleaned them up abit now they are out, but can anyone assist with any special treatment I should give them. I numbered them before I removed them also so covered my ass there as recommended. Can the body of them be rubbed with a fine sand paper or wire wool to clean them up or is it best to just leave them.

Weather was misty wet today, not the best when the cars out in the elements. Had to cut the job short even though I can see the home stretch.

Next stage will be getting the exhaust manifold off and the turbo. Need the turbo completely out as it doesn't look too heathy, covered in oil. Does anyone know if getting these parts off require access from under the car or can all the nuts be reached from up top?
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guys can you give me some info how to remove the oil separator? i undid top two bolts but seems something is holding it in place in bottom and i cant access it,there is a hole on the bottom beside the pipe but doesn't feel like nut or bolt as the separator is bit wobbling with top bolts undone
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There is a bottom bolt, down to the left as you look down at it. Seeing/feeling where it is is the tricky bit, once you know where to aim the spanner it's OK. As with the hole in the bracket above it on the same side, the hole is slotted so you should be able to wriggle the bracket and separator off to the right. Only that RH bolt needs to come right out - in theory anyway. I ended up taking all 3 out completely. How the hell it's ever going back is a problem I am leaving for later.
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You need to get under the front of the car to remove the lower heat shield over the turbo, disconnect the oil feed pipe, and disconnect the exhaust. Elearn says to remove the whole section of exhaust from turbo back to the joint with the mid section. I'm at the same point as you, haven't done that yet, but hope to just disconnect the front clamp (3 bolts). I suspect the lower exhaust manifold nuts will also be easier to get at from under the car.
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Please disconnect your battery before proceeding further. It's really worrying me :-)

Scotchbrite/plastic pan scourer stolen from the kitchen + carb/brake cleaner should be fine for cleaning the injector bodies. There are interesting YouTube videos using a battery power supply, switch and can of carb cleaner for cleaning out the insides and nozzles. The copper washers will need replacing. Unless someone tells me not to, I'll be smearing a thin film of copper grease on the injector bodies before they go back.

I thought you'd have a bit more space in the engine bay of a 159, it being a bigger car than my 147. It looks as cramped as mine - perhaps a little more room at the back, but less at the front.

It was sunny here (W.London) today, and a bit warmer. Tomorrow is torrential rain, but I'm stuck at the head bolts anyway.
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which from these pics is that bolt mate?
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guys can you give me some info how to remove the oil separator? i undid top two bolts but seems something is holding it in place in bottom and i cant access it,there is a hole on the bottom beside the pipe but doesn't feel like nut or bolt as the separator is bit wobbling with top bolts undone
Best tip I can give is to used you phone if the features are there. Iv used my phone on the video setting and switched the camera light/torch on and watched the screen as I manoeuvre the phone one handed into the tight areas with a small ratchet in the other hand. Abit like keyhole surgery. Such difficult layout to work on anything this engine. Good luck
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Hard to tell from those picture mate, sorry. Defo not the top one though.

Nice cleaning tip halftone. Cheers. I'll sort disconnecting the battery. Sorry my bad

Thought you weren't going to work on it in the cold weather. January wasn't your thing.
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I didn't wipe any oil away from the head yet, but I could see what I thought was a torx bolt swimming in the black stuff. I only have one big torx for my socket set. It's to fit the size they use for seatbelts. I can guarantee it won't fit the way things are going. I'll Have a quick look tomorrow.
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Resolution: The head bolts are definitely Ribe, not Torx, on my engine. They'll be tight, not an instance where it may be possible to get away with a Torx bit.

Yeah, I was wussing out on the weather, but it's been dry and not too cold with 2 fleeces and 2 pairs of socks and 2 pairs of trousers, and some thin gripper gloves with disposable neoprene ones over them, and a beanie hat. However I draw the line at rain and laying in puddles in the gutter, and I won't start working on the car until the ice has all gone from the bodywork. That gives me about 3-4hrs before it gets too dark

Alfafrv: See the pic from eLearn. Bolt points have red arrows. Image is back to front, ie the side you're looking at is against the engine. Knowing where they are may help. Welcome to the Headbangers Club.

NB!!!
I was in too much of a hurry with the picture I uploaded last night and put one of the red arrows in the wrong place. NOW AMENDED. It's the lowest attachment point that you're stuck on. In my car that turned out to be an open slot in the bracket like the hole above it.
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(Post Link) post #97 of 410 Old 22-01-16 Thread Starter
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Did I say torx, oops. Meant the female version.

We sound like two muppets fixing our Alfas. We need to add that clothing list to the intinary. Sounds just like wot I wore
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Torx and Ribe are not the same, and each come in male and female versions. Ribe has square splines. Torx has scalloped splines. Some people will try and get away with using a Torx bit in a Ribe fastener, but Ribe are usually used in high torque applications and that is asking for trouble. A mangled head on a cylinder head bolt would be a set fire to it and walk away scenario...

Pretty sure it is M14 Ribe that's needed here. The cheapest 1/2" drive strong Ribe bits I can find, that I can get quickly.
Laser 7 piece Ribe Bit Set

34.99-10% discount online, click and collect. Maybe tomorrow, but I am now overspent c/o Alfa Romeo, and skint for a few days.
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I was just in Halfords and seen those. I'm gonna try and find one single rather than a set. Too much money for just one application and never to be used again.

Are you 100% on the size? Can anyone confirm head bolt ribe size?

All stopped until we get the tool I guess. I must admit, I wasn't clued up with the different between torx and ribe bits.

Iv been pricing parts for reassembly all over the place to get the best price. If I could of got away with not replacing the head bolts I would have, but everyone screaming, replace them, so I'm not gonna argue. Also, I popped into a fiat dealership near me and they were the cheapest out of everywhere iv found, 45. But he did say they wouldn't know how long they would take to come as they not in stock and he would not know if they in UK or Italy until he put the order through. I don't know if that bad customer service or not.
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I'm struggling with the head gasket set and where to by it from. These sets have so many gaskets and I'm being told there are different sets so I'm confused. Also being told head gasket is sold as a separate item. Difficult as you can't see what your buying.

Main dealer was a rip off.

Also, any advice on coolant would b great. Stuff that drained out was a pinky colour.
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