Brera 3.2 JTS Q4 SV 48,000 miles Timing Chain - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 44Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
I think if the oil pump was the problem Sizewell GM would of just changed it. The problem seems to be the oil & how easy it can get contaminated even there own creation Dexos hasn't helped stop it happening. GM have tryed several chains over the years but they still seem to stretch. These V6 engines were all well tested & in the US & OZ, it was also developed by an international team of engineers including input from Ricardo PLC, there's lots of them in different versions from 2.8 upwards. Some are made in Japan, Mexico, Canada, OZ & the USA. (Our 3.2 was made in OZ) over it's production run which is still current & no doubt all sharing the same oil pump too. They make something like a 1,000 engines a day so why this chain still fails without neglect is beyond them.

Last edited by IAMBRERA; 10-11-15 at 13:39.
IAMBRERA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...645RvD6cS4KukQ

Note the engine has piston cooled oil-jet for the VVT system that could also get clogged
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMBRERA View Post
I think if the oil pump was the problem Sizewell GM would of just changed it. The problem seems to be the oil & how easy it can get contaminated even there own creation Dexos hasn't helped stop it happening. GM have tryed several chains over the years but they still seem to stretch. These V6 engines were all well tested & in the US & OZ, it was also developed by an international team of engineers including input from Ricardo PLC, there's lots of them in different versions from 2.8 upwards. Some are made in Japan, Mexico, Canada, OZ & the USA. (Our 3.2 was made in OZ) over it's production run which is still current & no doubt all sharing the same oil pump too. They make something like a 1,000 engines a day so why this chain still fails without neglect is beyond them.
What history I have; with the old twin-cam Berlina's, etc, etc, when wear occurred on the chains, it generally seemed to be even across the sprocket i.e., top and bottom. The pictures shown earlier; with so much apparent chain stretch, seemed almost as if there was an extra link. Also, wear seen was on both sides of the "Trough"; mid point, of the tooth, implying, the pin was not fully sitting in the "Trough". It was also said there was little wear on the tensioners, despite the apparent stretch. For me, the only explanation is, the chain and sprocket do not match. Vis a Vis, there is some variation in the length of the links. That would result in the tensioning load sitting on the "slopes of the tooth and not fully in the channel of the tooth. Is there any chance, that a variation, minuscule; and it need only be minuscule, in chain link length/sprocket - lost for the right term at the moment - tooth contour - for want of a better word, could result from different manufacturers of these items; different machining tolerances? Those pictures imply to me, the chain and the sprocket are not matched. The chain is rotating in one direction and therefore, simplistically, predominantly wear should be on the driven face, and not on both. I could be barking up the wrong tree, but I would, even though it seems extreme, go as far as not to trust just replacing the chain, but also the sprocket, from the same supplier. I know that is an extra expense, but it is not unusual in industry; the Aerospace industry for instance, to have matched components.
Is it also possible, we essentially have two problems: Chain/Sprocket match and Oil starvation.
On the former, I will check with the guys who did my engine where the various components came from.
With regard to the latter, the observation about switching off the engine when sat in traffic jams is pertinent, given Alfa state, the oil pressure, derived from the crank mounted oil pump, varies with RPM from 3 to 6 Bar. This is on a new engine.
In high pressure Oil and gas systems, to minimize risk to personnel, with regard to instrumentation, "Snubbers" are used, to reduce the pressure by "X" times - one does not want a 200 Bar line bursting in an instrument when someone is calibrating it. All oil, water and gas lines have an effective pressure reduction, even without the element of clogging due to sludge is taken into account. There is a formula somewhere. And the length of the line/gallery adds to the pressure attenuation. Plus wear on journals and bearings, ultimately reduce this pressure further.
Knowing this, I was just pondering whether a supplementary oil pump, operating in tandem would help sustain the "Tick - over", "Low RPM Driving".Pressure. It always makes me laugh when supposed experts and celebrity car programs quote "The engine is so torque-y, one can accelerate from 30 mph to 140 mph is top gear! Think of those poor journals, grinding together because, mechanical pumps aren't very good at low RPM. That's why manufacturers give us a gear box. And some people can get a quarter of a million miles out of an engine and others; hypothetically speaking five thousand.
Anyway, I'm a retired engineer, I'm bored, I need a project and my Q4 seems like a good one. It can be done, I'm sure of that. It's just a question of how best to achieve it. I need first of all to take some pressure measurements at key points in the system. The more I read about this engine, the more I respect it.
Kind Regards
sizewell is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
no grip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Garage
Quote:
That seems incredible. Are the two chains identical, same manufacturer? There has to be something wrong
The chains are the same part number but not sure what the tolerances are. I'd imagine they are pretty tight because when re-assembled the tensioner was barely extended out of it's housing. Ironically GM changed the secondary chains to the Morse type around 2008 which is what I found most strange as this is the type that had stretched on my earlier engine?
no grip is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Quote:
Originally Posted by no grip View Post
The chains are the same part number but not sure what the tolerances are. I'd imagine they are pretty tight because when re-assembled the tensioner was barely extended out of it's housing. Ironically GM changed the secondary chains to the Morse type around 2008 which is what I found most strange as this is the type that had stretched on my earlier engine?
I'm sorry, it still doesn't seem right. A 2 - 3 mm. stretch is actually a smaller error over all, namely because the distance from bottom secondary sprocket to the camshaft, is very much shorter than the whole length of the secondary simplex chain, and that is the region where the error would occur. Likewise, the distance between the crank sprocket; TDC reference and the upper idler, from which the secondary chain for the camshaft is driven, is less than the total length of the bottom duplex chain. Logically speaking, the error would not amount to the 2 -3mm figure suggested, although the chain may well have stretched this amount over it's entire length!. Whereas Nylon tensioner/guide faces, wearing and being constantly pressed against the chain as they wear, will generate much greater timing errors, given these guides/ tensioners, have curved faces towards the chain. This wear could very well be exacerbated by lack of proper lubrication, which in turn could be a function of oil pressure/sludge build up.
It doesn't sound logical either, for a chain to stretch by that amount. Essentially driving tension causing "stretch" and the consequences of that tension, not to be reflected in guide/tensioner wear? The marks on the sprockets also suggest, the chain is not fully "Home" in the tooth, and; I'm only trying to be logical, the difference in apparent lengths, would lend itself to this. Really, if you haven't changed the sprocket, that chain seems to be wrong to me.
I think, fundamentally this is a good engine. But given how universal it is, the bench mark reference may well have been lost, if not diluted If all the chains do not come from the same source, the likely hood of variation increases. And just because it is Stamped GM, doesn't mean it is. Chains and sprockets, should be matched as a tenet of Quality Control. We know where the problems lie, so it cannot be anything other than these two issues.
Kind Regards,

Last edited by sizewell; 11-11-15 at 18:05. Reason: Information in initial quote
sizewell is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Quote:
Originally Posted by sizewell View Post
That seems incredible. Are the two chains identical, same manufacturer? There has to be something wrong. To me that doesn't seem possible, Particularly if you say their was no appreciable stretch on the uppers, which are simplex and one has the high pressure direct injection pump? I am stunned, never seen that before, unless the're not the same animals. That must have floored you when you saw it.
Kind Regards
Quote:
Originally Posted by no grip View Post
The chains are the same part number but not sure what the tolerances are. I'd imagine they are pretty tight because when re-assembled the tensioner was barely extended out of it's housing. Ironically GM changed the secondary chains to the Morse type around 2008 which is what I found most strange as this is the type that had stretched on my earlier engine?
Sorry no grip, but I just had come back to you on this. I think you have just answered your own question -

[quote] "I'd imagine they are pretty tight because when re-assembled the tensioner was barely extended out of it's housing."
That implies the chain is not fully home into the teeth of the sprockets, therefore effectively creating a greater circumference for which the chain has to travel around. A greater circumference would mean it was tighter and thus the tensioners pushed further into the housing. The chain and the sprocket do not match, no question of that.The links are too long. Manufacture tolerances are out.
Sorry; But Kind Regards anyway.
sizewell is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
Crankshaft Position Sensors and Reluctor Ring information needed


I did read that the P0016 -P0017 codes can be caused by the Reluctor for the Crankshaft Sensor pressed on the Crankshaft may have moved.

The link above explains more on how the reluctor works
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: a good shot of nitrous will sort that!
AO Silver Member
 
jbsmith1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
What an excellent thread, I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through all the info and links.

Its very interesting to see the pictures of worn sprockets and chain wear marks on the guides and stretching links from wear/poor lubrication, and seeing that it could be a combination of manufacturing tolerances, oil pressure, tensioner galleries gumming up...this thread has kept me awake thinking!

Sorry to the OP over your purchase, I'm afraid I can't help there, but I have had some thoughts that may help extend future "timing chain and associated component" rebuild intervals.

I have seen the pictures of the results of worn chains/sprockets/guides, and I suppose the question is, is this normal wear and tear for this engine, or is this premature wear?

My theory is its the tensioners oil supply, could this be too low at idle, could the idle on these cars just be too low to maintain enough pressure for it the maintain chain tension? Slack chains at idle that go through a "whipping" effect as revs rise and tension is applied again (as there's is lag as oil pressure rises), this would accelerate wear. l've noticed the chain marks on many pictures on the guides, could this be the opposite effect with cold oil at startup over tensioning the chains until the oil is up to temperature...not sure about this bit but may spark a thought for someone...

Considering the oil pressure and temperature could be contributing to premature wear on a cold engine at start up has pushed me towards looking at what could be done.

There is a company called Accusump Canton Racing Products - Engine Accessories they do oil pressure accumilators, this would help prevent oil pressure fluctuation, and help maintain oil pressure at idle.
For the oil temperature on startup, there are many types of block heaters, like this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Pre...item51b930df85 it could simply be on a timer to come on before a daily commute to pre-warm the oil and the whole engine which isn't a bad thing with winter here.

I'm sure adding the above equipment would help, but I don't know how much.

If I could afford to run one of these engines I'd put a block heater/accusump on, but then everbody knows I'm a serial tinkerer and can't leave anything alone!
jbsmith1 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
I did also read that the oil pressure relief valve jet can get clogged with sludge inside the oil pump sticking the impeller which is very small.
Some Saab dealers did use 0W-40 instead of 5W-40 because it flows better from cold. I think oil choice is very important in this engine
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/...leave-it-alone

Some interesting information on the oil pressure valve & how oil can affect the flow
jbsmith1 likes this.
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Well Happy Pressure Variation on 3.2 tensioner system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMBRERA View Post
I did also read that the oil pressure relief valve jet can get clogged with sludge inside the oil pump sticking the impeller which is very small.
Some Saab dealers did use 0W-40 instead of 5W-40 because it flows better from cold. I think oil choice is very important in this engine
I think SAAB have got it right. The Pressure relief valve of the oil pump is directly after the outlet rotor/impeller. I don't think the pressure release valve suffers from sludging as it simply recirculates the over-pressure oil back into the pump directly. The galleries from the oil pump are wide and the oil filter and oil cooler, larger still. It is only when one gets to the secondary galleries, that the take-offs to the crank, cam shafts and the hydraulic tappets does the diameter reduce. This includes the Timing chain sensors. The pressure range from the oil pump is said to be 3 - 6 Bar, just under 45 to just under 90 PSI. From this one concludes, the oil pressure release valve is set to operate at 6 Bar. Because the oil-ways/galleries are narrower, then by laws of hydraulics, they suffer a pressure reduction. If one adds to this, an element of pressure reduction due to a) the length of the gallery and b) the resistance the oil has to flow (Inertia), then the pressure is lowered even further. At low revs/tick over, it probably does not sustain the pressure on the tensioners and the system has to rely upon the internal springs. If one floors the throttle from tick over, there is a delay between the increased crankshaft rotation, and thus increased tension between sprockets and the application of maximum hydraulic pressure by the tensioner, via the oil ways. The thicker the oil, the greater the delay. To sustain pressure on the timing chains, and it should be constant, throughout the rev range from tick over to max RPM, either it needs to have higher pressure at tick and lower viscosity oil. This can be achieved by supplementing low rev oil pressure with an electric pump. Or check valves in the system, to delay the fall off of pressure in these tensioners. Anyone got a tensioner, old or new I can play about with to see if this is possible to fit a check valve to?
Variation in oil pressure is an Achilles heel for this engine, with particular regard to the tensioner system. however, the least problematic solution seems to be a supplementary pump, which I am currently investigating.
This however, is an entirely different issue to that of suspected timing chain/sprocket variations.
kind regards,
sizewell is offline  
Status: a good shot of nitrous will sort that!
AO Silver Member
 
jbsmith1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
^" it probably does not sustain the pressure on the tensioners and the system has to rely upon the internal springs."
yes well described, wouldn't it just be typical if this all came down to a 10p spring going "soft" through heat cycling and hence "whipping" events and slack chains at idle and low revs was the result for premature wear/failure.

I would have thought AutoLusso would have a bin full of engine bits you could experiment with...
jbsmith1 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Well Happy

Quote:
Originally Posted by no grip View Post
The chains are the same part number but not sure what the tolerances are. I'd imagine they are pretty tight because when re-assembled the tensioner was barely extended out of it's housing. Ironically GM changed the secondary chains to the Morse type around 2008 which is what I found most strange as this is the type that had stretched on my earlier engine?
I am curious as to the change to Morse type chain secondary chains? I saw on an earlier post, some buyers were trying to get the funds together for a litigation case in the States. Does anyone know if these engines have continued to suffer the same problems since that date? If I was a manufacturer of these engines, and bearing in mind, a new grade of oil produced by GM to counter a problem with the engine, that they steadfastly refuse to countenance any problems with, why would I develop the oil? I do think this is a fascinating engine, but clearly there are issues. On the scale of production that IAMBRERA implies, to acknowledge this would be on a scale similar to V.W.
It makes no engineering sense at all to have had a Morse type chain as a primary and conventional simplex on the top, given one would need two types of tooling profiles for the same sprocket?? A timing error could easily be designed into the system by the wrong position of the simplex "CUT" sprocket, with respect to to the Morse "CUT" sprocket, without even having to consider the timing chain may vary in production. So to "cut the same profile for both upper and lower, engineering wise, is beneficial. It may also provide a manufacturer with the kind of "get-out clause" he needs to deflect any criticism and potential litigation. Certainly two different profiles on one idler seems odd! And if these parts were changed, was the remaining stock, if this was a principal reason for changing, destroyed, or are they still on dealers shelves? Perhaps I am being over critical, given my engine has done 100,000 miles before they were changed. But I would like to get to 200,000 miles and not 148,000, vis a vis only 48000 extra! Time will tell.
However, the issue of oil is equally important, particularly given mine is a 100,000 miler. So I intend to remove the oil pressure switch from the oil pump assembly and refit it on a "T", with and oil pressure gauge. This way I will be able to monitor the pressure constantly. Secondly, if there is sufficient concern about low oil pressure at "Tick - Over", then that concern has to extend to low oil pressure, when driving in a high gear; below 2000 RPM.
This being the case, I am investigating an external supplementary oil pump and filter housing. I am not concerned in this instance with oil cooling as I do not want to disturb the current configuration too much.
My theory is; Tapping into the oil pick - up in the sump, after the grid - plate. This take-off, using stainless, will pass through the sump wall (Glanded to maintain the seal) to the supplementary electric oil pump. I have found one at 45 PSI but need to look further.
From the electric oil pump, the outlet feeds the externally mounted second filter.
The filter outlet then goes, via check valve to the same point as the Oil Pressure switch and pressure gauge.
The check valve is to ensure the mechanical pump does not back feed the electric pump.
There are a few other considerations to be taken into account, but for the time being, this is the basic principal. This pump will however, only run at a predetermined system pressure, sensed by using an adjustable pressure transducer. The pump and filter need to be mounted low down, on the same plane as the crank mounted oil pump.
Question? Will I need to fit a check valve, to ensure nothing back feeds though the mechanical pump, when the electric one is running?
Kind Regards,
sizewell is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
Holden V6 Engine Plant Passes Key Milestone - AutoWeb News

I may have got carried away with how many engine's they produce, at the bottom of the page on the link above it says the intention is 900 units a day.

Sorry
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
Holden Engine Operations Builds Millionth High Feature V6 | GM Authority

They have made 1,000,000 HFV6 engines though in 34 varients. I wonder what the percentage is overhaul production of the chain stretch issue ? Even at 2% that's still 20,000 engines.

At the end of 2017 GM intend to close holden down due to financial cuts, so i guess they'll still produce the engine untill then
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Well Happy Spread sheet attachment

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMBRERA View Post
Holden Engine Operations Builds Millionth High Feature V6 | GM Authority

They have made 1,000,000 HFV6 engines though in 34 varients. I wonder what the percentage is overhaul production of the chain stretch issue ? Even at 2% that's still 20,000 engines.

At the end of 2017 GM intend to close holden down due to financial cuts, so i guess they'll still produce the engine untill then
Thanks for this. Keep the info coming, "Information is Knowledge, Knowledge is Power". can't remember who said that; twern't me.

For your perusal. The comments are for my benefit and do not imply a criticism of anyone. Hope it works.
Kind Regards,
Attached Files
File Type: xls 159 Oil Filter Assembly.xls (185.0 KB, 32 views)
IAMBRERA likes this.
sizewell is offline  
Status: Always working
Identity Confirmed
Authorised Trader
 
Autolusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Bedfordshire
Images: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbsmith1 View Post
^" it probably does not sustain the pressure on the tensioners and the system has to rely upon the internal springs."
yes well described, wouldn't it just be typical if this all came down to a 10p spring going "soft" through heat cycling and hence "whipping" events and slack chains at idle and low revs was the result for premature wear/failure.

I would have thought AutoLusso would have a bin full of engine bits you could experiment with...
Yes we have loads of parts and I am happy for the retired engineer guy to come and have a look, imput would be interesting

I have a full set of worn chains, tensioners and guides in a box under my desk that I can show people when they are getting this job done so they can see what is involved

Ned

Ned
jbsmith1 and radical_plus like this.
Autolusso is offline  
Status: a good shot of nitrous will sort that!
AO Silver Member
 
jbsmith1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autolusso View Post
Yes we have loads of parts and I am happy for the retired engineer guy to come and have a look, imput would be interesting

I have a full set of worn chains, tensioners and guides in a box under my desk that I can show people when they are getting this job done so they can see what is involved

Ned

Ned
Just a thought Ned, could you squeeze a worn spring tensioner vs a new one and see if there's a difference when you get time? Could rule in/out the soft spring theory.
jbsmith1 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
no grip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cheshire
Garage
Quote:
Sorry no grip, but I just had come back to you on this. I think you have just answered your own question -

"I'd imagine they are pretty tight because when re-assembled the tensioner was barely extended out of it's housing."
That implies the chain is not fully home into the teeth of the sprockets, therefore effectively creating a greater circumference for which the chain has to travel around. A greater circumference would mean it was tighter and thus the tensioners pushed further into the housing. The chain and the sprocket do not match, no question of that.The links are too long. Manufacture tolerances are out.
Sorry; But Kind Regards anyway.
Just describing my findings from a strip down & rebuild - you're welcome to over analyse the chains as much as you like. The Morse chain is designed to sit like it shows in the photo - the chain is designed to bear on the side of the teeth so no roller is required. This means cheaper chains and cheaper engines and longer life - which is probably a more likely reason for the change of chain type in the later engines. Now done just over 10k since change of chains and still have full power and no CELs.

This is the after shot that shows what a good fit the chains/sliders are - you can see how little the tensioner is extended with new components:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CAM00174.jpg (129.8 KB, 44 views)
no grip is offline  
Status: a good shot of nitrous will sort that!
AO Silver Member
 
jbsmith1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
^@ no grip as you have hands on experience, out of interest what is the gasket like that seals the tensioners to the block/oil gallery, could it be "pushed out" the way this example pick I've attached shows?
I'm just wondering if the cold oil/pressure scenario could "blow" the seal giving the slack tension results...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Timing Chain Tensioner 2.jpg (147.8 KB, 26 views)
jbsmith1 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
Service Manual2007 Captiva ENGINE MECHANICAL - HFV6 3.2L

Interesting Photo that JB, what could be the cause of that gasket to perish? Could it be some sort of back pressure affect? Also on the left-hand-side of the damaged tensionor i can see the thread has worn away. ???? But that could of been caused some how by removal.

In the link above is some additional information on the oil pump mechanisim & lubrication system if it may help.
kixey likes this.
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
If you note the engine oil grade specifies the use of API SL ACEA A1 0W30 fully-synthetic oil for the right Viscosity. Could this be a case that Alfa Romeo specified the wrong oil type for a GM engine, like some alledged they specified the wrong Power-Steering Fluid & changed it accordingly? Given the latter it does seem plausible.
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...YtOsoMbhTLtHhQ

Can anyone ascertain why GM would specify in this news bullitin to use 6.7ltrs of oil to refill & Alfa Romeo specify 5.4ltrs for the same engine?
I do find my Digital oil level reader sometimes read one or two bars down but the dipstick ( although sometimes hard to get the right measure tells me it's at a correct oil level

Last edited by IAMBRERA; 14-11-15 at 01:55. Reason: 7
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: 16Italiancylinders(V 6,N4,L2,V2,V2)+1Span ish
AO Silver Member
 
swq4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: East Riding of Yorkshire
Images: 28
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMBRERA View Post
Some Saab dealers did use 0W-40 instead of 5W-40 because it flows better from cold. I think oil choice is very important in this engine
As it happens my 115,000 mile V6 runs on Mobil1 0W-40 for this very reason.
That 0W ensures that from cold starts and short journeys oil is quickly moving.
I avoid long oil interval changes too - 8000 max
swq4 is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 159, Brera & 946 Spider

Tags
000 , brera , chain , jts , miles , timing

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome