159 2.2 apparent top end rattle help please - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 21 Old 12-10-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cairns
County: Australia
Posts: 7
159 2.2 apparent top end rattle help please

Hello one and all,

Great Forum.

I'm down under, in Cairns near the pointy tip of northern Queensland and I have just purchase (at great local expense) a 2008 ***** 159 with a four cylinder 2.2 normally aspirated engine.

It is stunning to look at and the acquisition is designed to move primarily my wife about in some style.

However I have a little issue (maybe) that there seems to be a god awful rattle/clatter coming front the engine. It seems to be top end,valves? it is there form start up but either disappears when the engine is revved hard or I just can't hear it.

I'm no expert but so was hoping someone might have had similar issues the car is has done 85k KM which I think is about 52K miles. I've been busy searching this forum and the we but the only recurring theme is timing chain, nothing about valves or tappets etc.

I appreciate anyone whoas experience with the=is engine with top end issues, I am having the car serviced as it has been over a year since the last service, but not up to the mileage. I worked that with long service gaps and previous short journey history the oil has clogged up and starved the head of quality lubrication (of course I'm now paranoid with a mildy annoyed wife) any thoughts most welcome.

Thanks,

David
AusDavid is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: #RussiansDidIt
AO Silver Member
 
BuonGiorno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Russian Federation
County: St. Petersburg
Posts: 2,989
Are you sure it is metallic rattle or it is not???...
If not, just open the knob located on the top of plastic air intake.
Check the condition of rubber membrane. any holes - replace it.
Also clean it from oil derbis.
Not bad to do it for prophylactics.
BuonGiorno is online now  
Status: Still glancing back
AO Member
 
Ian Durrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Upminster
County: Essex
Posts: 50
Images: 10
Garage
If its the hydraulic lifters you could try this:-

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/engin.../164682?page=1

Also Wynns hydraulic lifter stuff works like magic if you just have a clogged lifter valve.

Last edited by Ian Durrant; 12-10-15 at 18:32. Reason: typo
Ian Durrant is offline  
 
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 3,870
Images: 3
What oil do you have in it? Have you done an oil change since buying it or was one done before you got it?
Top Down is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 21 Old 11-11-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cairns
County: Australia
Posts: 7
Thanks

Hi ALL,

hanks for your thoughts, been out of town for work f or a few weeks but back now. The car has gone to the local Alfa specialist, a veteran of many moons. He says the clatter (noise) is familiar but marginally louder, to these models. Old filters and everything else has been charged. I followed the tappet instructions also. I think the noise is/has been reduced, however it clatters on start-up when cold for a few seconds, then calms down a bit. The noise is bit disconcerting sounding vaguely reminiscent of a diesel. With a cleanish bill of health from the mechanic I feel a little more comfortable it's not going to have a catastrophic failure, but if anyone has any clues as to what this noise could be and indeed how to stop it I'd be grateful for the heads-up.

Metallic clatter/rattle, almost tick once going sound for few seconds on startup (perhaps quieting with oil flow to the head?) noise either disappears or is indistinguishable form other engine noise when under load or at higher revs. Nothing loose, or obvious, sound seems to animate form top end, but is reflected downwards when bonnet shut.

many thanks,

AusDave
AusDavid is offline  
Status: No longer-Desperately SeekingGiulia
AO Member
 
Sir Baloney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 272
I bought my 2.2JTS new in June 2006. When I mentioned the initial start-up rattle (it is very diesel-like) to the tech guy at the dealers, the reply was "they all do that Sir", which was no comfort at all.
I've never let the oil go longer than 5000 miles, knowing the fragile nature of the chain lubrication. Here I am nearly ten years and over 78000 miles later, still briefly rattling from cold and then quickly settling to its refined mode. Hot restarts are quiet. It still uses no oil between changes and averages 33mpg on a long run. I regularly clean the PCV membrane and have replaced the inlet and exhaust solenoids. I can only assume it is a feature of this engine. Hope you find this reassuring.
Sir Baloney is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Furby156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 315

Member car:

Brera 2.2

Fairly sure mine is doing something similar to this. I originally thought it was a gearbox problem but seeing as it is related directly to engine speed I now think its is engine noise. I don't really get a clatter on start up but from cold the engine is noticeably more " whurry / rattly " than when warm. Noticeably worse if you hold it at about 2.5 k revs.

Ive had my chains, both variators, solenoids and cleaned the PCV with no improvement. I've had it checked by an Alfa specialist and they say its fine. To me it sounds like the "whurry" you used to get from the cambelt area of my old twin spark but worse.

Sound similar to anyone elses?
Furby156 is offline  
Status: turning heads everywhere
AO Silver Member
 
lussoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Preston
County: Lancashire
Posts: 4,247
Mine has a slight rattle for about a second on start-up.
I only really noticed it after I had the timing chain changed.
The engine also revs more than it used to on start-up before settling down.
It's been like this for 12 months now, no other issues.
I guess my timing wasn't set-up perfectly when the chain was done...
lussoman is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 3,870
Images: 3
Neither of our two 2.2's rattle in the slightest.
Top Down is offline  
(Post Link) post #10 of 21 Old 12-11-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cairns
County: Australia
Posts: 7
possibly reassuring

Thanks for the replies, I'm guessing as the mechanic here suggested, the noise is just a feature - If anyone finds a cure - do let me know. The performance is fine, the engine low miles at 52K and everything seems splendid, aesthetically (or whatever the aural equivalent) the noise is upsetting and doesnt match the rest of the car which mouthwateringly beautiful (in black with kinda terracotta leather seats).

I am heeding the preventative early oil changes messages, and ensuring the breather membrane remains gunk free. Is there anything else that the assembled would recommend for proactive maintenance?

The only other issue I have with the car is the aluminium centre consul panel is very slightly pock-marked where keys/change/life has interacted with it.
AusDavid is offline  
Status: turning heads everywhere
AO Silver Member
 
lussoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Preston
County: Lancashire
Posts: 4,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furby156 View Post

Ive had my chains, both variators, solenoids and cleaned the PCV with no improvement.
The 'rattle' I have on start-up (if you can call it that) is very similar to what I had on an older Alfa with a twin-spark engine.
On that a variator was the culprit.
lussoman is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Furby156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 315

Member car:

Brera 2.2

My rattle is not a variator rattle, well certainly not the same as a twin spark variator rattle been there done that! just more of a back ground rattly whurring noise which is not there at idle and only starts at about 2000 revs and stops again or is drowned out at about 3500. This noise really does bother me it just seems to me that engine isn't quiet enough to me. Its not been getting any worse I don't think, its actually worse inside the cabin than if you have the bonnet up and listen to the engine ( no its not the ac or the blower fan ).

Its just a frustrating background noise can put my finger on what it is and its not bad enough to go chasing with expensive replacement parts but at the same time I'm not convinced its normal. Do you consider your 2.2 to be a quiet engine or when holding the revs in say in second at 2.5 k revs can you hear the engine working away??

Last edited by Furby156; 12-11-15 at 08:29.
Furby156 is offline  
(Post Link) post #13 of 21 Old 16-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cairns
County: Australia
Posts: 7
Hello Splendid Alfa owners,

I just wanted to see if I could resurrect this topic as I am being driven mad by the 159 JTS 2.2 sounding like an ailing tractor not the sleek black Italian sports car that appears on the wrapper. Seriously, over the last six months the repairs have mounted, steering hoses, water hoses, unexplained self healing leaks, timing chain tensioner disintegrating (new chain and kit now fitted) wheel wobble bonnet catch breaking weird membrane thingy getting clogged and making noise like an angry cow... It's all been worth it, well almost just to catch a glimpse of the sculpted grace of this beautiful machine.

EXCEPT IT SOUNDS LIKE A BLOODY TRACTOR!!!

Everything appears to be working, the local Alfa guy insists it's noisy injectors and although "a bit loud" perfectly normal - you can hear the rattling from across the street can this be normal? I was hoping the new timing chain would get rid but no... what can it be - it's a 2008, now with 90K Kms not exactly excessive. I'm happy to to anything to stop the noise but am hoping that someone ease has had this issue since I last posted...

It almost sounds like a rattle from a loose fitting is there anything I should check for (can't see anything except the heat shield which is solid as a rock).

Any help, guidance or advice would be most appreciated, before I start shoving nylon shirts in the oil filler.....

Thanking this most useful of communities in advance!
AusDavid is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Lord_of_beard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Newquay
County: Cornwall
Posts: 251
Garage
What mileage has yours completed? Is it coming from a particular side of the engine? Is it worse when the engine temp is higher or lower?
Lord_of_beard is offline  
(Post Link) post #15 of 21 Old 22-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cairns
County: Australia
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_of_beard View Post
What mileage has yours completed? Is it coming from a particular side of the engine? Is it worse when the engine temp is higher or lower?
Hey Lord of Beard,

The beast has done 90,000Kms, and is a 2008.

I pottered around with stethoscope and I still can't quite get where the ticking is from - not I think from the rocker cover, but here is a hell of a racket from the aluminium block area where the black plastic injector covers seem to be. I haven't got lower in the block than that.

There's no smoke, performance seems pretty good.
AusDavid is offline  
Status: 16Italiancylinders(V 6,N4,L2,V2,V2)+1Span ish
AO Silver Member
 
swq4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: East Riding of Yorkshire
Posts: 1,540
Images: 28
Garage
Have you checked the regulator/solenoid from the vapour evaporation system - that can get noisy.
Its just behind the high pressure pump on the V6, not sure exact where on the 2.2.
swq4 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Rewe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Norfolk
Posts: 1,151

Member car:

Brera

I see you have had a new timing chain but did you need/get the kit with variatiors? It fixed my very similar rattle!
Rewe is offline  
(Post Link) post #18 of 21 Old 29-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Cairns
County: Australia
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewe View Post
I see you have had a new timing chain but did you need/get the kit with variatiors? It fixed my very similar rattle!
Hi Rewe,

Help me, what are variators? Where do the live?
AusDavid is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Rewe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Norfolk
Posts: 1,151

Member car:

Brera

They live near the top of the engine and are driven by the chains; they vary the timing. Before replacement mine rattled on start up then quietened down. After, all good. I guess they take a bit of time to fill with oil when they are worn.
Rewe is offline  
Status: turning heads everywhere
AO Silver Member
 
lussoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Preston
County: Lancashire
Posts: 4,247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rewe View Post
They live near the top of the engine and are driven by the chains; they vary the timing. Before replacement mine rattled on start up then quietened down. After, all good. I guess they take a bit of time to fill with oil when they are worn.
Are they easily (cheaply) accessible and changeable then, unlike the labour-intensive chain swap?
lussoman is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Rewe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Norfolk
Posts: 1,151

Member car:

Brera

I don't know. Very easy if the chain is off anyway but not sure how doable on their own.
Rewe is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 159, Brera & 946 Spider

Tags
159 , apparent , end , rattle , top

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome