Powerflex Mk4 - Non Squeak Edition! - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 31Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Status: -
AO Member
 
Lord_of_beard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Newquay
County: Cornwall
Posts: 252
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autolusso View Post
I have been looking at the options of this today with Powerflex and it is not going to work as the rose joints are too big to fit in the arm

Also setting the adjusters in the arms to set them to parallel is going only going the set the camber and that is also going to be very hard to set as you can't easily see what position the adjuster in when they are on the car

This is very frustrating as I want to get this right as it does make the cars drive really well

Ned
Really interesting thread this. I think I'm going to wait on Powerflexing until this squeak issue is resolved. I'm super fussy about the car and not time rich so don't want to be under there lubricating once every couple of months. The wife WILL kill me. So I shall follow this closely ;-)
Lord_of_beard is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
IAMBRERA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Jamaica
County: Saint Ann Parish
Posts: 1,705

Member car:

SV JTS 24V V6 Q4

After sleeping on this i've conceded to the facts that JBSmith1 has pointed out, it's the pinch on the bush that causes the squeak. Now the cure is an enigma to me, other than regreasing as of when i'm stuck on thought.
Please Ned, Jay, & everyone who's involved with this project keep up the good work. Hopefully you guy's can fix this issue
IAMBRERA is offline  
Status: Always working
Identity Confirmed
Authorised Trader
 
Autolusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Bedfordshire
Posts: 6,492
Images: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_of_beard View Post
Really interesting thread this. I think I'm going to wait on Powerflexing until this squeak issue is resolved. I'm super fussy about the car and not time rich so don't want to be under there lubricating once every couple of months. The wife WILL kill me. So I shall follow this closely ;-)
We are just fitting the lowers in the workshop at the moment and they make a massive difference, the adjustable tops are just fine tuning, don't be put off

Ned
Lord_of_beard likes this.
Autolusso is offline  
 
Status: a good shot of nitrous will sort that!
AO Silver Member
 
jbsmith1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Posts: 1,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autolusso View Post
I have been looking at the options of this today with Powerflex and it is not going to work as the rose joints are too big to fit in the arm

Also setting the adjusters in the arms to set them to parallel is going only going the set the camber and that is also going to be very hard to set as you can't easily see what position the adjuster in when they are on the car

This is very frustrating as I want to get this right as it does make the cars drive really well

Ned
Thank you for talking to Powerflex, yes its a shame that those hybrid rose joints are too bulky to use in our small bush housings, and yes agreed that running two adjustable joints parallel for just setting camber is putting more chance of miss alignment and over complicated.
Yes this is very frustrating, I have other idea's, let me gather some info and report back tomorrow.
In the mean time, if anyone has any idea's, don't be shy, post em up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMBRERA View Post
After sleeping on this i've conceded to the facts that JBSmith1 has pointed out, it's the pinch on the bush that causes the squeak. Now the cure is an enigma to me, other than regreasing as of when i'm stuck on thought.
Please Ned, Jay, & everyone who's involved with this project keep up the good work. Hopefully you guy's can fix this issue
Hey no conceding needed mate, its the brain storming thats helped us all here, we have all contributed to pin pointing the problem and knowing that gives us all a good base line to start from.
sizewell and IAMBRERA like this.
jbsmith1 is offline  
Status: FRED
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 132
Hi All,
I had fitted Strongflex on a 147, well known model for its suspension "noises"!!!

3 months later worse noise than before, so went back to original bushings with a grease nipple and Graphite Belleville grease.

I reckon if I have to grease once every 2 years it will be the max.

I used M6 nipples to make the smallest hole as possible.

I will do the same on my 159 Ti if I have too, but one thing is sure, never again Strongflex/Powerflex bushings.

Also I don't believe in replacing the lower ones either, as the lower ball joint is almost gone when the bushings are cracked, a lot of stress on those.

My 2 cents.
fredvr is offline  
Status: a good shot of nitrous will sort that!
AO Silver Member
 
jbsmith1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Posts: 1,963
So camber and caster adjustment, how can we achieve this without having an expensive custom top arm with 2D sliders for the top ball joint to be adjusted in just like the track cars have. Well that is the ideal solution, but I think we can get close to having enough adjustment just looking at this problem from another angle.

We've already ruled out adjusting with the top arm, it was a nice idea in theory, but was a nightmare to perform the adjustment in practice, and of course we unknowingly introduced unwanted twist on the bushes.

So what about an eccentric insert on the top ball joint? Well yes its possible, but first off people are put off by any material leaving a stressed area and I can understand this, also an eccentric bush is not really going to help as its going to adjust camber and caster all at the same time, its needs to be separate adjustment on two planes.

Right armed with this information what we need is to find an existing bush that PowerFlex can "modify" for us and for it to then allow camber and caster adjustment by shimming in a location that is accessible to get too. Tall order I know but have a look down here...cough!


It may be a coincidence but look at the way Alfa designed the lower wishbone.
It has a semi floating rear bush that the arm slips into, look at the front bush, its offset and fixed with two bolts.
Now imagine if PowerFlex did a replacement front bush with no offset and elongated holes for the bolts (yes they are threaded, but we can fit bolt with new nut the other way).

So we fit the new front bush would give the ability to pull the arm in to reduce camber with shims, and push out to increase camber with shims, them on the elongated bolt holes we can move the hole arm forward and back for caster.
Red lines show new slots, orange arrows show offset that would need to be zero.
Now as always this is all subject to the movement needed to only be a few millimeters. Finally we would loosen the bolts on the rear bush housing allowing it to relax to new location and re tighten (bolt holes may need to go up 1mm in size.)
So what do we think?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg front lower wishbone00.jpg (70.7 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg front lower wishbone01 modified.jpg (69.0 KB, 35 views)
jbsmith1 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
b0j4n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
County: Montenegro - Crna Gora
Posts: 19
Upper bushes

Hello, as I don`t live in UK, and want to get the uper arm PU bushes (I got the STRONGFLEX ones, now I‚m on 17 the 18 inch wheels are in a future plans when I get new suspention and coils), I want to do the grease nipple mod as well, now I would need some more info:

Should the nipple be bolted only in the arm, like so (attachment 1):
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...573585&thumb=1

Or it should go thru the PU bush witch I finde less likely, but as the STRONGFLEX bushes are made from two separate parts, the grease may finde its way to fill the bouth uper and lower gap (attachment 2): http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...573593&thumb=1

I also POWERFLEXT the lower arm and the anti roll bar, and I get the unpleasent squeaking, is there anyone who can adress me to the post whitch explain how to fix the antiroll bar squeaking, lower arm squeaking.

Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Slika 1.jpg (51.1 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Slika 2.jpg (51.8 KB, 16 views)
b0j4n is offline  
Status: a good shot of nitrous will sort that!
AO Silver Member
 
jbsmith1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Posts: 1,963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autolusso View Post
I have been looking at the options of this today with Powerflex and it is not going to work as the rose joints are too big to fit in the arm

Also setting the adjusters in the arms to set them to parallel is going only going the set the camber and that is also going to be very hard to set as you can't easily see what position the adjuster in when they are on the car

This is very frustrating as I want to get this right as it does make the cars drive really well

Ned
Hi, I haven't forgotten about this top arm adjustment quandary, have you made any advances your end?

Only today I was searching for something else and an eccentric spherical poly bush popped up. Yes it would be tricky to adjust...but shows PF could probably revise it to fit our top arms if nothing else is found.
Powerflex - Performance Polyurethane Bushes

I have a couple of options for building a new top arm with all the adjustment needed if that's the only way forward, problem is keeping the cost sensible.

(Merry Xmas/Happy new year all)
Lord_of_beard likes this.
jbsmith1 is offline  
(Post Link) post #59 of 78 Old 23-03-16 Thread Starter
Status: Powerflex Mk4 - Non Squeak Edition
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
JabawokJayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 3,383
Images: 31
Garage
By way of an update on the use of this mod I would like to point out, for the record that since fitting, the bushes have started to squeak twice, and in each case jacking the car up and using a grease gun to re-apply the grease fixed the squeak.

On the point of safety / weakening of the arm. The car has done approximately 15K miles on this set-up and has been to the Nurburgring, where it was punished around it many times. The carousel was always used and the suspension has taken the hardest punishment of its entire life.

To this day, their are still no cracks, breaks or failures in the arms with the grease nipples installed.

Just thought people might like some real world feedback.


2008 159 TI 2.4 JTDM QTRONIC
My Car Details______http://www.jabawoki.com/2014/07/07/alfa-159-ti/
Project Halo Wiki____https://projects.jabawoki.com/index.php/Project_Halo_UK
Project Halo Page____https://www.facebook.com/ProjectHaloUK
JabawokJayUK is offline  
Status: New quiet lifters
AO Silver Member
 
halftone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater London
Posts: 1,326
Garage

Member car:

147 Sport Q2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JabawokJayUK View Post
So over the last week I have had the absolute test of this mod and can confirm its 100% fixed the squeek issues and NOT weekend the arms in any way

I'll start at the begining.....

A couple of weeks ago, a few of us like minded fools drove to the Nurburg ring in convoy via Reims in France. Including a few aggressive laps of the ring we are talking a 1000 mile weekend of high speed punishment that has tested the strength of the upper arms.

So last week my bushes started to squeek really badly. So badly that everytime I turned the wheel it sounded exactly like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXwHKZctKGc

Although not the same issue it was ideintical in noise and movement so you can understand it was not ideal! people would turn and stair for all the wrong reasons while it was being driven!!

Fearing the worst I thought the rack had gone so set about checking fluids, resovouirs and checking the cost of replacement units But after a week of diagnosing the rack I established it was fine and moved onto the bushes....

I initially tried to greese them using the standard multi-purpose grease I had always been using just by jacking it up and forcing it in like before. This made it a little quieter but had not at all fixed it. Given this ais all I had done before to quiet it down I was less than pleased at this point.

So I thought I should try and clean it all up a little first as it was a right mess of dirt and greese. I used the jet washer to thoroughly clean the bushes and upper arm joints, then used brake parts cleaner to get rid of the last of it then used a water displacing penetrant to finish the job.

I re-applied the normal greese and it was no better. At this stage I thought it was a no go mod and that it was all a waste of time

Not content with such an outcome I decided to get a little more involved in the problem so I jacked her up again, cleaned off the joints again as before and took both front wheels off.

I then switched the greese in my gun from multi-purpose greese to copper greese (seems be be better favoured for the Powerflex) and slackened off the upper arm bolts to ensure that the greese could get all the way into the bush.

When I applied it this time the greese oozed out of both ends of the bush rather than just one end as before so this seemed much more promising.

A quick blast around the block after it was all put back together and its smooth as silk and quiet as a mouse without the squeek!

That as they say is a result

Happy Powerflexing!
It still common to find grease nipples on high-load parts of monoshock suspension linkages on motorcycles. These are invariably alloy, with (usually) a small M4 nipple tapped directly into the metal. The bearings are usually roller race, but one common feature is a channel right around the inner surface. As grease is forced into the bearing by the gun it will take the path of least resistance, ensuring it reaches the whole circumference, before trying to exit between the bearing surfaces and taking old grease and dirt with it.

Powerflex or Autolusso might want to cut a shallow u-shaped channel around the inside of the bush to coincide with the nipple, it might improve grease distribution.
halftone is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Phanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Belgium
County: Antwerpen
Posts: 90
Images: 20
Garage
Thanks to Autolusso and JabawokJayUK (and other people I should forget) for sharing the Mk.4 edition solution. Mounted everything at the moment with the stated adjustments. Can't wait to start driving it!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ncc1v1rsc...42.18.jpg?dl=0
JabawokJayUK likes this.
Phanatic is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
davebem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Leicestershire, UK
County: Leicestershire
Posts: 113
Ive copied some of this from a post I made elsewhere but thought it was all relevant to this thread;

I was looking for a long term fix to the upper wishbone bush issues that are well documented on this site. I have been trying different setups with the upper wishbones and thought Id report my findings as maybe interesting to others, especially to those that keep their cars for a long time. Im not claiming to be an expert mechanic or engineer. This turned into a bit of an essay so if you dont want to read it all, the conclusion as at the bottom of this post!!

Standard bushes:

The front bush has a white plastic insert between the rubber part that rotates with the arm over a metal sleeve, the sleeve is fixed in position when clamped by the fixing bolts. Inside the plastic insert it has grooved channels all around it with a small amount of grease in (from new), overtime the sleeve dries up and the plastic hardens and gets very stiff to the point it gets stuck and can no longer rotate freely. Ive noticed they get more stuck in warmer weather, or when the car hasnt been used for a few days!! Once this bush starts to get stuck with age and from drying up, it makes a right racket. As seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyeEaGsBBgo
The rear has a metal insert around that rotates with the arm around a metal sleeve, but its also designed to slide forwards and backwards approx 5mm each way to allow the arm to flex. It is assumed this is done to absorb hard knocks to the suspension and to cushion knocks felt through the steering. The sleeve in this also gets to the point of almost seizing as it normally dries up and goes rusty over time due to being more exposed to muck in the wheel arch (the front bush is sealed). Once seized it fails to rotate and also doesn’t allow for the sliding flex movement, this can cause a clattering noise which can resonate through the cars body.
You can check how ‘stuck’ your arm is by undoing the ball joint nut, and separating from the hub, it should move freely and quietly up and down by hand, they often don’t! If you have new arms, clamp them in a vice and test how freely they move before fitting.
I believe that nearly all the noisy ones are due to the front, rear or both bushes getting to the point of nearly seizing up. Once it starts to seize it starts to rotate via stretching the rubber bush, this causes the rubber bush to tear over time and wear out prematurely. Note that otherwise the rubber part of the bushes is up to the job and is not the problem here. A seized bush is not good for handling as it will hamper suspension movement.

I have tried the following setups:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...pstzsxntzk.png
Supaflex, Powerflex and standard bush).

Standard Alfa Romeo made in italy (TRW) Arm/Bushes (approx £163 each) and you will need new ball joint nuts! Additionally some Alfa dealers and specialists offer a cheaper alternative (I think they are made by Febi) but I havnt tested these.

Positives:
These move very freely and quietly for a while, they can last the longest (upto 60k miles)

Negatives:
They have lots of compliance in them to flex which contributes to tyre and alignment issues.
Bushes can seize.
Expensive.

Standard pattern Arm/bushes (q-drive, Delphi , meyle) etc (approx £50-90)

Positives:
Cheap cost in short term.

Negatives:
They have lots of compliance in them to flex which contributes to tyre and alignment issues.
The rear bush slides side to side, this gets rusty and seizes.
Front bushes seizes very quickly. Infact I have had a q-drive one out of the box that would not rotate freely on the front bush when held in a vice from new - (this ended up being a candidate for PU bushes).
Most of the pattern arms proove to be false economy in long run.

Arm with Powerflex bushes (£180 plus cost if new arms are needed). You need to factor in the time/cost to press out old bushes from arms, Additionally : Pro alignment is a must adding extra cost.
The inside of the PU bush is textured to hold in supplied grease, the PU bush should rotate with the arm around the clamped in metal sleeve which has a offset hole for adjustment, the metal sleeve can be adjusted while the mounting bolts are loosened with the supplied hook spanners. Nylon washers are used on either side of the bush to assist rotation. The Powerflex bush is not as stiff as it seams, despite being the stiffest black type, when held in a clamp they do offer some movement compared to the supaflex bushes.

Positives
Castor/Camber adjustment
Improved handling/tyre wear.
Sharpens steering feel.

Negatives
Expensive and complex alignment needed.
In my opinion the Powerflex bushes need to be improved to allow them to move a little more freely. They can often squeak due to being too tight requiring yearly regreasing/rebuilding (alignment will need to be done again if rebuilding unless you can somehow mark the positions). If they are allowed to dry up and squeak for too long then the textured inside of the PU bush wears and smoothes out.

Arm with Supaflex bushes(£50 plus cost if new arms are needed). You need to factor in the time/cost to press out old bushes from arms.
The Supaflex bushes are just 2 piece PU bush that is textured inside to hold in grease. These have a centred hole around a metal sleeve so are not adjustable. Unfortunately not only is the material used very stiff, but the bushes are a little too wide for the sleeve and these can be very stiff when fitted.

Positives
Sharpens steering feel.
Cheaper cost.

Negatives
These bushes are very stiff and offer hardly any movement, the bushes are very plasticy (obviously they are plastic anyway but there is no ‘bounce’ in them). Even the black Powerflex bushes offer way more compliance than these do.
The bushes are too wide and clamped in too tightly, the 2 part bushes don’t meet in the middle of the arms, they don’t fit quite right and need approx 1mm taking off both ends to allow the metal sleeve to be clamped in instead of the bush which should move with the arm.

Conclusion
If you can live with the tyre wear, stick to the original Alfa supplied arms, if you don’t mind the possibility of rebuilding bushes each year due to squeaking and prefer the improved feel and handling, use the Powerflex bushes. Or get them fitted with the grease nipples and regularly grease them.
I was looking at a BMW X5 upper wishbone today, if you squinted your eye it looked the same as the 159s, however it had a much better freely rotating bush design. We need a new arm/bush design that gets to the source of the noise issues and premature wear issues caused by stiff movement, its priority must be to rotate freely and is maintenance free, and ideally allows camber/castor adjustment if needed. I dont think it matters if its rubber or PU, as long as the rotation doesn’t stick and stress the bush!!
davebem is offline  
(Post Link) post #63 of 78 Old 02-09-16 Thread Starter
Status: Powerflex Mk4 - Non Squeak Edition
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
JabawokJayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 3,383
Images: 31
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JabawokJayUK View Post
By way of an update on the use of this mod I would like to point out, for the record that since fitting, the bushes have started to squeak twice, and in each case jacking the car up and using a grease gun to re-apply the grease fixed the squeak.

On the point of safety / weakening of the arm. The car has done approximately 15K miles on this set-up and has been to the Nurburgring, where it was punished around it many times. The carousel was always used and the suspension has taken the hardest punishment of its entire life.

To this day, their are still no cracks, breaks or failures in the arms with the grease nipples installed.

Just thought people might like some real world feedback.
7months later....... still not cracked, still no squeak...
Rewe likes this.
JabawokJayUK is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Posts: 1,258
Well Happy

Quote:
Originally Posted by no grip View Post
Weakening that part of the wishbone is bad news - just ask any Maserati 3200 or 4200 owners. It can lead to catastrophic failure so please test it fully before widespread implementation.
The bushes are substantially locational and there is a "flex" in the name. The mechanical load on the arm is relatively low and the holes are small with respect to the cross section of the bush housing so any additional stress I would not have thought to have increased by much. It would have been better if the holes were drilled centrally then any reduction in strength would have been minimized. But there may have been practical considerations why they are not and I don't see there is any undue risk involved. Nothing wrong with a pragmatic approach and if if helps owners to achieve what they hoped for when fitting Powerflex then that's good.
sizewell is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
nogrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
County: -
Posts: 210
nogrip is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Posts: 1,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by nogrip View Post
This is the Maserati problem

Warning!
I can see where you are coming from. However, it is a fair to point it out, it like comparing chalk and cheese. How I wish my Alfa could be viewed through the same spectacles as that illustrious make. There is no commonality between the Marques. But it is fair comment none the less.
sizewell is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
nogrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
County: -
Posts: 210
Quote:
it like comparing chalk and cheese
But some striking similarities - Alfa left, Maserati right
Attached Images
File Type: png wishb.png (474.4 KB, 40 views)
nogrip is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Posts: 1,258
Well Happy

Quote:
Originally Posted by nogrip View Post
But some striking similarities - Alfa left, Maserati right
I still don't see it NG. Where's the grease nipple? The Maserati arm failed where there are enormous loads. Where these grease nipples are fitted, those kind of loads do not exist. I'm not advocating that people should or should not do this mod. Just saying, extra stresses I would have thought small. And on an additional note, my Powerflex bushes on the rear trailing arms are doing just fine. 8,000 miles on and the back-end is behaving impeccably.
sizewell is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
nogrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
County: -
Posts: 210
There is no grease nipple in either but adding one would weaken both
nogrip is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Suffolk
Posts: 1,258
Well Happy

Quote:
Originally Posted by nogrip View Post
There is no grease nipple in either but adding one would weaken both
The Grease nipple position is totally unrelated to where the Maserati arm failed. Personally I think it is probable the Alfa arm is intrinsically stronger than the Maserati's. More metal is not necessarily indicative of extra strength. The nipple on the modified Alfa arm is in a position where any load on the wheel is translated into rotational forces on the bush/bush housing. There is an equation for this but I'm not going that far. The Bushes themselves would collapse first, but only if the load was not attenuated by the wheel/tyre dampening which none the less is reduced as a consequence of the fact that the force is at the end of the lever - the arm. I would suggest the Maserati failed due to poor spring/shock absorber ratings. I bet the Maserati bushes were fine in the attached pictures. Plus one cannot discount the possibility that the driver of the Maserati was an idiot, thinking as Citroen drivers do, They can drive over the craters of the moon in the firm belief that the suspension can absorb anything from a matchstick to a log in their path.
sizewell is offline  
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Posts: 2,093
Images: 12
If you study the Alfa arm it is essentially an 'I' beam on its side. So its strongest plane is sideways ie stopping the two bushes spreading apart rather than a bending load from the ball joint. Obviously there is some strength in the other direction but an 'I' beam gets its strength from how far apart the two end surfaces are. The middle part of the 'I' is just there to keep the two end surfaces apart.

So the wishbone carries most of its strength horizontally rather than vertically. I think I'd want to measure the loads before concluding what the grease nipple does.
sizewell likes this.
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: Fully armed and operational tractor
AO Member
 
AlfaJoe92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hertfordshire
Posts: 660
Garage

Member car:

159 1.9 JTDm

Quick questions guys:

I need the bushes replacing on my car and was wondering, as it seems it is not recommended to get the powerflex bushes fitted to the front due to the squeaking issue, what would be the best / most economical way to get the fronts done as if memory serves, Autolusso do Powerflex all over plus 4-wheel alignment for £579, or I think just the rears for £379. If I had a budget of £600 or so, whats my best bet? I heard that OE bushes only come with the Alfa arms and are not cheap so am I looking at £600+ for a non squeak bush replacement all over?

Cheers.

2007 159 1.9 JTDM - Argento with Full Black Leather
Wheels: 18" Multi-spoke in Dark Anthracite
Chassis Mods: Powerflexed front-lower wishbones
Engine Mods: DPF/EGR Delete/De-Swirled
Exhaust: Wizard Dual Backboxes Conversion
Lighting Mods: 6500K HID's & Fogs, Osram LED Conversion, Tri-Halo Conversion
Aesthetics: De-Chromed Grille, Brera Nose, EZ Lip, Biscione plate badge & Decals
Future Mods/ Fixes: Ti Skirts, Eibach & Blisteins

Last edited by AlfaJoe92; 06-09-16 at 23:07.
AlfaJoe92 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
County: -
Posts: 68
Upper wishbone obviously keeps the wheel upright-ish, but I bet the most loads come on it in a plane you wouldn't initially think off - horizontally. When you brake, the torque reaction to slowing the wheel down with the brake caliper on the disc is to try and move the top of the upright forwards, trying to move the wishbone end forwards - compression - ish on the front mount, tension on the rear.

Some years ago, someone on the Caterham forum modified the upper wishbone to take a rose joint rather than the heavy weight track rod end (Poski-Fiat I believe!) and ii failed by bending forwards under the braking reaction.

Any owner of an old (-20's, 30's probalby later too) will tell you about greasing joints regularly. The fresh grease obviously keeps the joint lubricated, but it flushes out dirt that would otherwise be grinding away at the joint.
sizewell likes this.
bricol is offline  
(Post Link) post #74 of 78 Old 07-09-16 Thread Starter
Status: Powerflex Mk4 - Non Squeak Edition
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
JabawokJayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 3,383
Images: 31
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaJoe92 View Post
Quick questions guys:

I need the bushes replacing on my car and was wondering, as it seems it is not recommended to get the powerflex bushes fitted to the front due to the squeaking issue, what would be the best / most economical way to get the fronts done as if memory serves, Autolusso do Powerflex all over plus 4-wheel alignment for £579, or I think just the rears for £379. If I had a budget of £600 or so, whats my best bet? I heard that OE bushes only come with the Alfa arms and are not cheap so am I looking at £600+ for a non squeak bush replacement all over?

Cheers.

I have to disagree. They are recommended for a number of reasons discussed on many threads on this forum. Yes there are a few nay Sayers but on the whole the mod is widely accepted as a significant improvement over stock. Squeaking can occur and is fixable either with regular rebuilds or nipples.

As always it's a personal decision to move your car from stock parts to after market. Price really shouldn't be the driver though.
JabawokJayUK is offline  
Status: Always working
Identity Confirmed
Authorised Trader
 
Autolusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Bedfordshire
Posts: 6,492
Images: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaJoe92 View Post
Quick questions guys:

I need the bushes replacing on my car and was wondering, as it seems it is not recommended to get the powerflex bushes fitted to the front due to the squeaking issue, what would be the best / most economical way to get the fronts done as if memory serves, Autolusso do Powerflex all over plus 4-wheel alignment for £579, or I think just the rears for £379. If I had a budget of £600 or so, whats my best bet? I heard that OE bushes only come with the Alfa arms and are not cheap so am I looking at £600+ for a non squeak bush replacement all over?

Cheers.
The Powerflex bushes work perfectly on the lower arm bushes and we have fitted hundreds of them with no issues whatsoever. The adjustable upper arms bushes do introduce squeaking so we have stopped fitting them.

Jay has fitted grease nipples to his upper arms and it has worked fine for him but we decided not to offer this as an option as we can't take the risk in adding a weak point in to our customers suspension. I think if it was my own car I would add the grease nipples

We fit TRW upper arms

So front end rebuild from us

Powerflex lower arm bushes (both sides) = £300 inc VAT

2 x TRW upper arms = £300 inc VAT

4 Wheel alignment = £79 inc VAT

Ned
nogrip likes this.
Autolusso is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 159, Brera & 946 Spider

Tags
edition , mk4 , powerflex , squeak

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
Replace with
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome