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Thats an interesting solution JB. by fixing the bush and allowing it to locate in different locations it would allow much greater adjustment as well. I havnt looked in great detail at the mount point while its been off the car but given the bolt locates into a fixed nut I am assuming shimming this would be a significant modification to the upper arm locations?
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I have heard these Strong Flex ones don't sqeak
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I have heard these Strong Flex ones don't sqeak
Not the first time I have heard that either. They are not adjustable though, which comes back to the comment from JB. it could be the adjustability that creates the issue.
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The original bushes are none adjustable as you already know, some people have camber issues others don't have any problems with the standard arms at all. It's some what of a catch 22 with these upper arms. Before i fitted the Power-Flex ( Camber bolts ) my car was pulling to the left even after 4 wheel alingment
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Agreed, I have the uppers Powerflexed for the adjustment they provide as mine is lowered so its worth it to keep the handling on form and the tyres in check. If I didnt need the adjustment I would just have the lowers powerflexed and leave the uppers rubber.
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They're spot on, as you say they ride smoother when fully greesed. It's just the annoying squeak & they don't seem as smooth when they run dry. But you have fixed yours for good now so you wont have that to bother you again. I'm gonna try a new greese this time on the PF's, i can't really complain i got two years of perfection from the copper greese
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So many of you have had Powerflexed upper arms and subsequently ended up with a squeaky ride. In honesty, mine often ended up sounding like an old bed in an "establishment of ill repute" on a regular occasion

This is something I have been discussing and theorising about with Ned & Craig @ Autolusso for some time now and last week we decided to try a modification that has the potential to solve the problem for good!

Essentially the issue is that over time, the bush works all of the grease out and squeaks. The only fix is to grease it again and the problem is that the grease needs to go inside the bush. This requires the bush to come out as you cannot get any kind of spray grease to creep inside enough.

So what we decided was that an old-school solution was needed!

Each of the upper arms was removed from the car and drilled, tapped and sheathed to take a grease nipple. This way, when they eventually run out of grease, all you have to do is jack up the car, attach a hand held grease gun and apply the grease to the inside of the bush in place.

Craig ran some tests last week and it all looked promising so my car was up on the ramps for the first set of greasy nipples

Attachment 514018 Attachment 514026

We were feeling brave so to prove the point we fitted the bushes into the arms DRY with NO grease and attached them to the car. Once they were fitted we greased them with the nipples while on the car and I took it for a drive round the block to see if we had squeak.

Attachment 514034 Attachment 514042

Silence

It does not squeak, and has not squeaked yet. Given I do a couple of K of mileage a month I will be able to report back as to the longevity of this fix.

I believe that Autolusso will be able to modify existing powerflex installations as required by customers, and new customers can request this additional modification. This of course extends past the 159/Brera/Spider and is relevant for the 156/147/GT crowed as well as they all suffer the Powerflex Squeak as well!

Here is a very happy looking Craig, extremely pleased with himself and the solution

Attachment 514050 Attachment 514058
This is a very informative thread.

I am looking for the bushes for the shock absorber's bottom end. The guy that had the car before me installed Koni shocks and it has worn out the bottom bushes. Any ideas how to fix that?

I have checked the power flex site and there aren't any shock absorber bushes nor is there any information in the drawn diagram.

Thanks

Last edited by kaballasx; 01-10-15 at 15:39. Reason: adding information.
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Originally Posted by JabawokJayUK View Post
Thats an interesting solution JB. by fixing the bush and allowing it to locate in different locations it would allow much greater adjustment as well. I havnt looked in great detail at the mount point while its been off the car but given the bolt locates into a fixed nut I am assuming shimming this would be a significant modification to the upper arm locations?
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Originally Posted by IAMBRERA View Post
The original bushes are none adjustable as you already know, some people have camber issues others don't have any problems with the standard arms at all. It's some what of a catch 22 with these upper arms. Before i fitted the Power-Flex ( Camber bolts ) my car was pulling to the left even after 4 wheel alingment
I feel some what responsible for getting the whole Polly bush band wagon rolling with Autolusso many years ago now, so I'm pleased to see it has progressed to production kits now. There are always going to be teething problems and seeing as Jay is the "test mule" I would like to help where possible.

I understand the need for adjustability to hit the OEM specs on camber/caster.
I'm wondering if just shimming that top arm back/forward to hit the factory caster spec would also bring the camber inline with factory spec too.

With out the alignment guy trying just that we won't know, but it could be a way forward for using fixed polly bushes in the top arm, after all it must be a nightmare trying to adjust for camber and caster with two adjustable bushes high up in that arch.
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Very interesting thread Jay, fingers crossed the copper grease does the job.

I would like to contribute another idea for the reason there is this squeak
I think its the way the caster is achieved with the eccentric bushes.

Normally with the rubber bushs the arms sit parallel in location as the arm travels up and down and load is spread across contact patch equally, when you skew the pickup points to move to arm with the eccentric sleeves to get correct caster, you also move the loading pressure point.

For what it worth, my solution would be to have a fixed polly bush and shim those top pickup points forward or back to obtain correct caster.
I agree with this about the skewed bolts

Not sure how you/we would make the shim solution work

Ned
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the top arm, after all it must be a nightmare trying to adjust for camber and caster with two adjustable bushes high up in that arch.


They was so much so they began to bend the spanners supplied with the kits. I had the driver's side spot on when fitting them by pot luck, so only had to adjust the N/S/F which was a pain. I think if you use a permanent small tipped felt pen, mark the camber bolt, bush, & aluminium arm with a perfectly straight line whilst they're still in location before unbolting them from the mount ( on axle stands ), then once you push out the bush & bolts to regreese it shouldn't be a problem to realign the camber back to the original postion that it was before dismantaling the upper arms, a bit like using Tippex on timming gear for alingment when doing a cam belt
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But what about insurance? Have you informed them that you have "potentially" weakened upper wishbone?
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But what about insurance? Have you informed them that you have "potentially" weakened upper wishbone?
every modification to my vehicle is declaired. ta.
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I agree with this about the skewed bolts

Not sure how you/we would make the shim solution work

Ned
For the shimming idea for caster adjustment to work in practice it really comes down to how much shimming would be needed (a measurement your Alignment guy may know?). If we are talking +/- 3mm then I think its do-able with a shoulder-less bush and then being able to stack up e.g 1mm polly shims for adjustment and to also retain the shoulder and lateral support.

So after sleeping on this I awoke with another brainfart
Its occurred to me that we have all overlooked the best way to use these adjustable top arm bushes.
So bear with me here...lets forget that these adjustable bushes are for caster for the moment (unless we can shim) and that they are actually for camber and camber rise adjustment.

Camber rise is engineered into suspension to lean the wheel (with more camber) into a corner as the suspension compresses, (proportional to suspension travel).
When we fit uprated/lowered springs, we also end up with the wheel having more camber which is not normally adjustable.
With these adjustable bushes fitted with the offset hole at its lowest we add camber rise rate, this means we can restore the factory camber setting and still achieve the rise rate with less suspension travel.
Its the perfect use of these adjustable upper bushes.

If the caster shimming ends up not being possible, then there is always the possibility of using an eccentric insert for the top arm ball joint.

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They was so much so they began to bend the spanners supplied with the kits.
Interesting, I would check the subframe is square as it sounds like there could be a bias to one side, hence you had to adjust more (bendy spanner) on one side than the other. Also starting with both adjusters at the same position when you start, and adjusting in equal amounts front and back to help reduce the binding/twist difference between them may help. Sorry if you already done that.
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My subframe is aligned correct, & the tyre wear is even too. Mines 100% tempreature related, i hadn't driven the car since Monday & today went for a no where in particular drive (which i enjoyed) no squeak. The Tempreature was 12, on Monday it was 20 when they was squeaking
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My subframe is aligned correct, & the tyre wear is even too. Mines 100% tempreature related, i hadn't driven the car since Monday & today went for a no where in particular drive (which i enjoyed) no squeak. The Tempreature was 12, on Monday it was 20 when they was squeaking
Ok cool, you sound like a "hands on" person like me I may have a mod for you and existing owners to try.

I'm not aware of the evolutionary changes that have got this Bush to Mk4, but I've attached a couple of pictures to backup my claims that its the caster adjustment causing the biggest problem here, and now also the bush shoulder.

Please don't think this is a criticism though, I can see PowerFlex have been behind solving this problem for some time now which is great, and the work that Craig has put into the re greasing solution is ingenious! Did anyone notice the ribbed crisscrossing in side the bush, that's to help contain the grease a well thought out design I like.

So below are a couple of pictures of a top arm wishbone with adjustable bushes, one original pic and one I've drawn all over so a comparison can be seen better.

In the picture below you would expect to see a straight line between bolt and arm casting as would be the case with the std rubber bush.
Look at the red and yellow lines, they are both running off square, this is caused by the caster adjustment and opposing directions from the two adjuster (which is unavoidable when adjusting for camber and caster.
This angling of the bush could also be causing the grease to be pushed out prematurely, its just like squeezing on the end of a toothpaste tube.
So look at the green arrow, this shows one of the pinch point where you would get stiction, this could well be the main contributor to the squeaking.

So what solutions are there?
1) Well as above posts, run the bushes square and adjust for camber and shim for caster, but that's old news now.

2) What I have noticed is that shoulder and pinch point highlighted with green arrow.
It would be nice to see that shoulder taper off, this may allow the arm to remain skewed and not squeek, but I know that's a bold statement as there have been many methods tried to date. See blue lines for revision.
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File Type: jpg IMG_5656.jpg (100.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5656 mod.jpg (101.9 KB, 30 views)
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My replacement upper arms squeaked after just six month of buying aftermarket ones, they also made a thump/knock sound on full lock, but so did the genuine ones ( TWR Brand ) that was on the car when i bought it.
I honestly would 100% say it's a lubritation problem that happends to some and not others, a bit like the Gearbox, hesitation, & timming chain issue that the 2.2 has, & the erg/dpf problem that effect the diesel engine. But those problems don't effect all cars hence no recall was ever made to say it's a manufacturing fault. The video link shows someone has drilled a small hole to relube the bushes tittled lubricating holes in the rocker 159. They can just stick for some reason & cause squeaks or creaks. I thought Ned had solved the squeak with the MKlll version, hence the two washers on the opposite side of the bolt adjuster

Many vids on youtube show squeaks to the bush assembly on Powerflex too

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https://m.youtube.com/results?q=alfa...suspenion&sm=3

My replacement upper arms squeaked after just six month of buying aftermarket ones, they also made a thump/knock sound on full lock, but so did the genuine ones ( TWR Brand ) that was on the car when i bought it.
I honestly would 100% say it's a lubritation problem that happends to some and not others, a bit like the Gearbox, hesitation, & timming chain issue that the 2.2 has, & the erg/dpf problem that effect the diesel engine. But those problems don't effect all cars hence no recall was ever made to say it's a manufacturing fault. The video link shows someone has drilled a small hole to relube the bushes tittled lubricating holes in the rocker 159. They can just stick for some reason & cause squeaks or creaks. I thought Ned had solved the squeak with the MKlll version, hence the two washers on the opposite side of the bolt adjuster

Many vids on youtube show squeaks to the bush assembly on Powerflex too
Yes its a lubrication issue, some of those videos are lubrication issues other's will be more complicated to diagnose.
The question is where did the grease go? Did it dry out? Did it leave on its own accord or was it pushed?
Like a good murder mystery all the clues are there.

All we are trying to do here is extend the lubricating intervals, after all I'm sure Jay would rather not have to touch Craigs nipples so often!
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I think the lubricant degrades from heat, water ingestion, & friction over the course of time. How to keep the lubrication active is an issue which is on going with jay's MK4 version. I think a high grade heat resistant grease is the way to go, or a tweak to the upper arms or bushs design on standard & PF bush for easy lube access

Just an Alfa quirk that untill solved that i'll have to live with.
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Mine started squeaking after 3 months of fitting (Fitted March 2015). Lived with it for 3 months and then used some spray-on-grease to silence it. It's almost silent now, apart from an of squeak depending on temperature.
If things get worse, I am thinking of refitting them using this:
Energy Suspension Formula 5 Prelube
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I think a solution could be to flute taper the camber bolts in order to contain the grease for a longer period of time, a bit like on riffle bolts
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There must be a dozen types of lube/grease and sprays even Marine grade grease (which looks the best) that have been tried on these top arm bushes from reading through other threads on here.

Ask yourself, why is it just the top arms that need so much repeated lubricating to stay quiet?
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It's probably down to the design of the stock bushes & Powerflex bush kit. Poly bushes do squeak, & the stock arm had a hub carrier bush on the rear upper arm ( the same which is fitted in the lower control arm ) & the front bush was a make up of plastic & metal washers with a sleave. Alfa must have just thought the same design that's on the 147 will work on the heavier Brera without really putting to much thought into the suspenion design. It must of cost peanuts to produce.

Take a look at the camber bolts in the link would you say this design would work better?
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http://www.elephantracing.com/suspen...ings-large.jpg
....

Take a look at the camber bolts in the link would you say this design would work better?
Yes! If that has a ball inside to allow the arm to skew over and the ball to stay on the bolt line then yes! yes! yes! thats perfect just like a hybrid rose joint!

See diagram, red arrows show pinch points inside the arm at the moment and the deforming of the polly bush with caster adjustment.
The grease is so thin there that it is displaced in a very short period of time, now depending on how much adjustment a particular car needed will effect how bad the pinch points are. Combine this with varying mileage on the bushes and this is why some cars need more frequent greasing than others.

Lets hope PF can produce something like that to fit.
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All we are trying to do here is extend the lubricating intervals, after all I'm sure Jay would rather not have to touch Craigs nipples so often!
We are friends, but there is a limit!
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Yes! If that has a ball inside to allow the arm to skew over and the ball to stay on the bolt line then yes! yes! yes! thats perfect just like a hybrid rose joint!

See diagram, red arrows show pinch points inside the arm at the moment and the deforming of the polly bush with caster adjustment.
The grease is so thin there that it is displaced in a very short period of time, now depending on how much adjustment a particular car needed will effect how bad the pinch points are. Combine this with varying mileage on the bushes and this is why some cars need more frequent greasing than others.

Lets hope PF can produce something like that to fit.
I have been looking at the options of this today with Powerflex and it is not going to work as the rose joints are too big to fit in the arm

Also setting the adjusters in the arms to set them to parallel is going only going the set the camber and that is also going to be very hard to set as you can't easily see what position the adjuster in when they are on the car

This is very frustrating as I want to get this right as it does make the cars drive really well

Ned
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