159 TI Suspension Upgrade Advice - Alfa Romeo Forum
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159 TI Suspension Upgrade Advice

Any chance of some opinion / advice on an investment path please?

I have a cracked spring (common fault I know) so am using this as an opportunity to improve the stock suspension.

Option 1)

Eibach ProSystem suspension kit
around 500 EUR on Alfisti

Option 2)

Eibach-Bilstein Suspension Kit "Sportiva" (B6 Sport Shocks & ProKit Springs also known as the B12 Pro Kit I beleive)
around 649 EUR on Alfisti

Option 3)

As per Option 2 but with Eibach Sportline Springs.
50mm drop & harder ride.

around the same price as option 2

I don't want to step up into the coilover brackit as the cost jump is too much to swallow right now, and I have had feedback that it can be too harsh for a daily driver.

My requirements are:
  • It needs to feel firmer than the stock TI setup but not be a bone breaker
  • It needs to be not much lower than the TI is right now on 19's as clearance is useful!
  • I can do upwards of 1000 miles in a week sometimes and I dont want to get to my cleints looking like I have just run the nurburg.

Simple really.

Ideas?


2008 159 TI 2.4 JTDM QTRONIC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JabawokJayUK View Post
Any chance of some opinion / advice on an investment path please?

I have a cracked spring (common fault I know) so am using this as an opportunity to improve the stock suspension.

Option 1)

Eibach ProSystem suspension kit
around 500 EUR on Alfisti

Option 2)

Eibach-Bilstein Suspension Kit "Sportiva" (B6 Sport Shocks & ProKit Springs also known as the B12 Pro Kit I beleive)
around 649 EUR on Alfisti

Option 3)

As per Option 2 but with Eibach Sportline Springs.
50mm drop & harder ride.

around the same price as option 2

I don't want to step up into the coilover brackit as the cost jump is too much to swallow right now, and I have had feedback that it can be too harsh for a daily driver.

My requirements are:
  • It needs to feel firmer than the stock TI setup but not be a bone breaker
  • It needs to be not much lower than the TI is right now on 19's as clearance is useful!
  • I can do upwards of 1000 miles in a week sometimes and I dont want to get to my cleints looking like I have just run the nurburg.

Simple really.

Ideas?
I replaced the whole lot with Koni shocks and Novi springs which I picked up from a fellow member. Its about a 50mm drop and this set up has transformed the car, all though I can't compare to the Ti set up. Just another option.
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The drop is the most difficult to determine at the minute. General research puts the prokit springs at about the same rebound and spec as the Ti ones, so would be a like for like swap, the dampers will help with handling as well, but I wanted to go a little firmer, so the sportlines appeal as they are a firmer spring to start with.

What I cant determine is given the Ti springs are already lowered, what the difference in ride height would be using either ProKit springs @ 30-35mm or Sportline springs at 45-50mm. On 19's with the current ride height, it looks good and clears speed bumps, i don't want to create a situation where it looks good/better but cant get over humps!

Is there a "zero" height point that these are measured from, and if that was the case, how can I determine the current drop in standard TI spec accounting for the larger rims?
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As to where you would measure the "zero" height point I'm not sure. I measeured the gap from the wheel rim to the wheel arch before and after.

IMG_0539.jpg

IMG_0563.jpg

I did this all round including a point on the the bumper which gave me a true measurement of how much it had lowered the car. As you say, you could do with some members with your wish list options to send you some measurement.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JabawokJayUK View Post
Any chance of some opinion / advice on an investment path please?

I have a cracked spring (common fault I know) so am using this as an opportunity to improve the stock suspension.

Option 1)

Eibach ProSystem suspension kit
around 500 EUR on Alfisti

Option 2)

Eibach-Bilstein Suspension Kit "Sportiva" (B6 Sport Shocks & ProKit Springs also known as the B12 Pro Kit I beleive)
around 649 EUR on Alfisti

Option 3)

As per Option 2 but with Eibach Sportline Springs.
50mm drop & harder ride.

around the same price as option 2

I don't want to step up into the coilover brackit as the cost jump is too much to swallow right now, and I have had feedback that it can be too harsh for a daily driver.

My requirements are:
  • It needs to feel firmer than the stock TI setup but not be a bone breaker
  • It needs to be not much lower than the TI is right now on 19's as clearance is useful!
  • I can do upwards of 1000 miles in a week sometimes and I dont want to get to my cleints looking like I have just run the nurburg.

Simple really.

Ideas?
Might be worth emailing Alfisti-shop to see if they can say how the specs of the 35mm H&R springs compare to the Pro-kit ??

or KW V1 coilovers can be had for under £700 which isn't too painful
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Looking into this a bit more, I cant seem to find Sportline springs for the 2.4. Seems they are only for the 4cyl 159's not the 5 & 6cyl engines.

So it is either option 1 or option 2 as I cant get a sportline option without heading into coilover territory and the 2.4's are so heavy, that makes them expensive!

Eibach Pro-Street S Suspension Kit Alfa Romeo 159 2008 2.4TD
KW Suspension Variant 1 Coilover Kit Alfa Romeo 159

KW Varient 2 & 3 coilovers have front axle load ratings up to 1250KG. the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of an 08 2.4 JTDM TI is 2150KG so divide by 2 and the front axle weight is 1075KG so they should be ok, but the issue I have is that these cars are nose heavy so I somehow doubt is a 50/50 split of weight!! KW variant 1 coilovers have different versions for the different weights as determeined by VIN, but it only looks like another 50KG of weight.

Dam this stuff is hard work to figure out!

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have a look on Gazella racing for the KW, are a bit cheaper I seem to remember
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KW Variant 1 for my car is still £832 + fitting, so nearly twice the cost of Option 1. Is a coil over that good vs a normal shock for everyday use?
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I am waiting for springs to turn up for my 2.4 and can confirm that Eibach only do the Pro kit for the 2.4 not the sportline.

Rob
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I had an Eibach pro kit on my RX8 and it was very good. But on the 159 i'd imagine the spring rates would be similar to the Ti's though
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The general perspective across many forums is that the Eibach Pro-Kit Springs are soft but the progression makes them stiffen up when you need it, but, the Eibach Dampers are too soft. They are made by Sachs and are very much an OE set-up by the sounds of it and when applied with the ProKit Springs its just a little too soft and slow.

Bilstein B6 dampers seem to be a bit harsh, but when combined with the softer, more progressive nature of the Eibach ProKit Springs to create the B12 package produce a very good all round setup that is both well behaved and friendly on long drives while offering very good handling in the twisty stuff when you want it.

I have also looked into Koni FSD's but I am not overly impressed with the feedback on them, seems slow rebound and damping and some premature failures accross a few different forums.

So, for now at least, for the budget, Option 2, the B12 setup wins. That said, I am hoping for some more advice and experience to feed into this equation.
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I was under the impression the Eibach dampers were made by KW?

I have Eibach shocks & springs on my 156 GTA (soon to add rear Eibach ARB) and they are very good, I'm very pleased with them.

I know its a totally different car so might not even be relevant to the 159.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JabawokJayUK View Post
Looking into this a bit more, I cant seem to find Sportline springs for the 2.4. Seems they are only for the 4cyl 159's not the 5 & 6cyl engines.

So it is either option 1 or option 2 as I cant get a sportline option without heading into coilover territory and the 2.4's are so heavy, that makes them expensive!

Eibach Pro-Street S Suspension Kit Alfa Romeo 159 2008 2.4TD
KW Suspension Variant 1 Coilover Kit Alfa Romeo 159

KW Varient 2 & 3 coilovers have front axle load ratings up to 1250KG. the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of an 08 2.4 JTDM TI is 2150KG so divide by 2 and the front axle weight is 1075KG so they should be ok, but the issue I have is that these cars are nose heavy so I somehow doubt is a 50/50 split of weight!! KW variant 1 coilovers have different versions for the different weights as determeined by VIN, but it only looks like another 50KG of weight.

Dam this stuff is hard work to figure out!
KW's V2 and V3's are fine. In fact, they are great if your budget stretches to them. I've got the V3's on my car and found them to be great. My car has been on the scales and total weight is 1650kg-ish with a full tank of fuel. About 1100kg is on the front so the KW's will work fine.

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I think that the dampers for the eibach pro system are made by different companies depending on the vehicle manufacturer in question. For BMW its Sachs, for alfa we know the 156/GT is bilstein - would assume the same for the 159

Also looking at the spec sheets for the pro kit springs, for the 159 they say the spring rate is linear rather than progressive for both front and rear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
I was under the impression the Eibach dampers were made by KW?

I have Eibach shocks & springs on my 156 GTA (soon to add rear Eibach ARB) and they are very good, I'm very pleased with them.

I know its a totally different car so might not even be relevant to the 159.
Thats good feedback Pud, I would love to just put the ProKit on including Dampers as its both the chespest option and they are technically matched units so the best solution, so if I can get decent advice / feedback, its still plan A!

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Originally Posted by Clogz View Post
KW's V2 and V3's are fine. In fact, they are great if your budget stretches to them. I've got the V3's on my car and found them to be great. My car has been on the scales and total weight is 1650kg-ish with a full tank of fuel. About 1100kg is on the front so the KW's will work fine.

Very useful info on the weight front Clogs, thanks for that. I genuinely wish I could stretch to a set of KW V3's but with fitting as well, it takes me way out of budget and I would have to save and live with the broken spring a few more months. Are there any adjustable - non coil-over options in the 400-600 price bracket?

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I think that the dampers for the eibach pro system are made by different companies depending on the vehicle manufacturer in question. For BMW its Sachs, for alfa we know the 156/GT is bilstein - would assume the same for the 159

Also looking at the spec sheets for the pro kit springs, for the 159 they say the spring rate is linear rather than progressive for both front and rear
Thanks Phil, that is interesting, as the whole marketing gumf on the ProKit springs pushes the progressive wind feature. Can you post a link to the specs? I want to get the best set-up I can for the least money, so would like to consider my options.

I see Eibach have a Pro-Street-S coilover system in the £600 bracket
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Phil, just found the online catalogue and the Eibach ProKit for my car is the B12 option:

Model E90-10-005-02-22
Description Eibach Pro-Kit B12
Packaging Unit 1
Amount per PU 1
Item Status Normal
EAN 4050278028844
Price 840.14 EUR / unit (incl. VAT)

B12PK.bmp.jpg
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Thats good feedback Pud, I would love to just put the ProKit on including Dampers as its both the chespest option and they are technically matched units so the best solution, so if I can get decent advice / feedback, its still plan A!
I have a feeling the pro-system is being phased out in favour of the Bilstein/Eibach B12 kit, thats why they are cheaper. They never used to be cheap.
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Ok, so I may have got some confusion in my last post..... I spoke to Alfisti, and it looks like its the other way round, the B12 is being phased out in favour of the new all EIBACH versions, but the online catalogues from EIBACH don't seem to even list the newer ProDampers at all yet!

Feedback from Alfisti on the kits:
both kits are nice for their price.

But off course the Sportiva kit offers the better suspension.
Springs in both kits are the same. Everytime Eibach Prokit springs.

So the difference is seen in the dampers.
The Eibach dampers are shorten and have a 10-15% more sporting character then the OEM dampers. The rest is like the OEM dampers.

Also the Bilstein B6 dampers are around 15% stiffer then the OEM ones but the real difference is that they can react a lot quicker then any other dampers can do this.
And that is the main and important difference.
So the Bilstein B6 shocks are winning on quality, and hence the £200 difference in cost.
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Thanks Phil, that is interesting, as the whole marketing gumf on the ProKit springs pushes the progressive wind feature. Can you post a link to the specs? I want to get the best set-up I can for the least money, so would like to consider my options.

I see Eibach have a Pro-Street-S coilover system in the £600 bracket
Here's the spec sheet (in German!)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 159 E10-10-005-01-22.pdf (126.8 KB, 146 views)
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-- update --

So I have been scowering the tinterwebs for advice, opinion and feedback on Bilsteins vs other options. What is coming up again and again is Koni FSD's as a potential option, but from what I can tell, they are softer than the Bilsteins.

In terms of feedback and user advice from those with both types of shocks, feedback for both sets is generally good and most people are happy with either option. Koni's can suffer from early failure and leaking, but Koni's support on this front is very good and getting them swapped is no hassle if they go. Bilsteins are stiffer and at lower speeds, not as well behaved as the Koni's but in the twisty stuff, the Bilsteins win. Some people claim the Bilsteins are too harsh, but most of the feedback on this subject seems to be "my mate had a set and said they were too hard" rather than direct user feedback from any owners.

I had a good run out today and the cracked spring is playing havok with stability so I need to stop procrastinating and get it sorted!! As such I have made my decision now, its going to be The B12 kit for me, B6 shocks & Eibach ProKit Springs. I shall be ordering them up in a few days and I'll post an update as I progress with this.
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I once drove a V70 T5 Volvo my 2000 with new koni FSD and 4cm lowered (I think Bilstein springs).

I didn't like the ride. Too soft in the middle, not much feedback. Better something harder. But on the other hand, that's a different car.

Difference in inbound and outbound stiffness is important.
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I once drove a V70 T5 Volvo my 2000 with new koni FSD and 4cm lowered (I think Bilstein springs).

I didn't like the ride. Too soft in the middle, not much feedback. Better something harder. But on the other hand, that's a different car.

Difference in inbound and outbound stiffness is important.
I was under the impression that all the FSD dampers were designed to be fitted with OEM/standard length springs. So when fitted with lowering spring much of the damper travel is not utilised so it does not function in the way that Koni designed it to
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Order placed with Alfisti, £580 delivered for the B12 kit, circa £150-200 cheaper than in the UK. When it turns up, I will get my local Indie to install and give her a hunter alignment.

feedback to follow.
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Order placed with Alfisti, £580 delivered for the B12 kit, circa £150-200 cheaper than in the UK. When it turns up, I will get my local Indie to install and give her a hunter alignment.

feedback to follow.
Nice

How much is the delivery from Alfisti ?
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