159 TI Suspension Upgrade Advice - Page 6 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Originally Posted by Gary H2 View Post
All interesting stuff. After my experience with the FK Automotive rubbish, have ordered the B4s and the Prokit springs.
Should give me exactly what I want as I will be doing a 500 mile round trip every Friday to Manchester for the next ten weeks!
Im sure you wont be disappointed I know I wasn't when I had mine done with B4's and prokit. Are you getting the custom B4's which have been shortened?

I had my front end powerflexed at the same time so not sure what the difference will be but my 159 feels like driving a new car now... very taught and precise with little body roll
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No, decided against shorter dampers and polyflex due to wanting full on comfort mode and also budget.
I did however replace all the upper/lower arms and droplinks when I had the FK****e fitted, so it should see me good for a while.
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So Gary, you've gone with B4 and Prokit springs? Please let us know when you've had it fitted and ridden it a bit.
I'm almost finished with my stockpiling, got the B4's, the Prokits, Meyle HD droplinks, upper mounts. Just need upper wish bones, tie rods and spring compressors and I'm good to fit it all. Probably be in April when I fit it because I'm trying to limit spending to a couple of hundred a month. Getting impatient though!
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LOL, I know what you mean

It was close as I was seriously considering the B8/Novitec set up, but then I already have boneshaker in the 'R8, so might as well go full retard, err, I mean comfort with the Dog Basket - especially as I have almost 5000 miles coming up over the next 10 weeks with a weekly trip to Manchester.
Hoping to get them fitted within a week or so, so will of course let you know.
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Excellent service as always from Team Squadra Sportiva, turned up 3 days after ordering.
Booked in for fitting at A for Alfa next week.Not expecting any dramas as everything was unseized and taken apart for the FK bits as well as all the other suspension component replacement just a few weeks ago.
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Hope you don't regret the B4's as opposed to B6 ?
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Have also ordered the B4 plus Pro Kit.
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Hope you don't regret the B4's as opposed to B6 ?
If it was my only car, then yes, I would have gone with the B6 or even B8 and Novitec set up.
However, being lucky enough to have a slightly unhinged toy, my priority with the dog basket is to retain the TI looks but as much as comfort as possible.
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Wave

I have just fittet Bilstein B6 and ProKits. Drives fantastic - not in any way to firm, but feels sharper than stock TI-setup. I would recommended it!
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So, only 50 miles in - and still needs alignment, but the jittery ride has gone, feels planted and stable and most importantly, rides potholes flawlessly - even better than the stock TI setup (albeit 115K miles old and with a broken rear spring )

So far, one very happy Customer.

Top job by Paul at A for Alfa as usual
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Music to my ears Gary. Which tyres are you running?

After a weekend blast in JabaWokJay's car, I was thinking that maybe I should've gone with B6's and kept the power flex stuff, the car felt really planted and confident, not hard. As I've already got the B4's ready and waiting, I may aswell try them, I reckon they'll be fine bearing in mind my 159 is mainly a family bus and is mostly driven the other side of 90 to Jay's
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Am I right in saying that if you lower the car, you really should get the PU bushes also so that you can adjust the camber so you don't end up with excessive tyre wear? will the bushes direct from Powerflex or indeed Alfisti.net do the job or do they need to be modified in any way?

(I'm aware of the other pros and cons of the PU bushes)
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Quote:
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Am I right in saying that if you lower the car, you really should get the PU bushes also so that you can adjust the camber so you don't end up with excessive tyre wear? will the bushes direct from Powerflex or indeed Alfisti.net do the job or do they need to be modified in any way?

(I'm aware of the other pros and cons of the PU bushes)
Not modified but setting up is '' key '' to the result and not a doddle to do . Plenty can offer alignment but don't have the knowledge of these adjustable bushes.
If you don't fit Powerflex up front after lowering , then camber being increased/neg , will definitely increase front tyre wear dramatically.
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I'll 2nd what rob has said. I put eibachs on my car which is destroying my tyres. 8 in 2 years! I don't trust any local companies to setup adjustable bushes properly and also don't want to pay over the nose for a maintenance setup every year so I'm going back to standard ride height soon.
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Not modified but setting up is '' key '' to the result and not a doddle to do . Plenty can offer alignment but don't have the knowledge of these adjustable bushes.
If you don't fit Powerflex up front after lowering , then camber being increased/neg , will definitely increase front tyre wear dramatically.
Okay so does that mean that TI cars that are lowered by the factory have dreadful tire wear? Or do they have something else (other than powerflex bushes) that allows the camber to be adjusted appropriately for the wheels?

In my newbie understanding I always thought that powerflex bushes were squeaky plastic washers sold for a lot of cash but with no adjustability??? Would appreciate some education/pointers/links on this one as I know nothing about steering geometry!
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159 TI Suspension Upgrade Advice

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Originally Posted by Hurri View Post
Okay so does that mean that TI cars that are lowered by the factory have dreadful tire wear? Or do they have something else (other than powerflex bushes) that allows the camber to be adjusted appropriately for the wheels?



In my newbie understanding I always thought that powerflex bushes were squeaky plastic washers sold for a lot of cash but with no adjustability??? Would appreciate some education/pointers/links on this one as I know nothing about steering geometry!

Not sure about the first question in terms of factory set up ( I can say they are not adjustable though), but my Ti (with standard set up) did over 15k on the fronts with no problems (before fitting power flex, as there was still inside edge wear).
Can someone comment where they had the tyre wear when lowered ( inside edge, outside, all over etc), and if you had the alignment done.

The power flex bushes are harder but do not flex or perish like the standard rubber bushes ( so more precise steering and last longer). On the 159 the front lower bushes are the ones that seem to flex ( they are also hollow, exacerbating the issue!), partly causing the notorious inside edge wear (along with an aggressive toe out set up), so tyre wear, especially on the inside edge is lower with power flex).

On the 159, only the top front power flex bushes are adjustable ( the standard rubber ones are not). These are the ones you should probably get if you are lowering if you believe there is a problem). Ironically these are the ones that I understand are squeaking (or were on earlier designs, someone else can correct me) .
The lower bushes are the ones that benefit handling most ( I just went for these).



Any spelling/ grammatical errors are purely there to annoy!

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ex: Punto 55s, Golf Mk5 1.4FSi, A3 (8P) Sportback 2.0TDi SE, A4 (B8) 2.0TDI S-Line, 306 HDI Meridian
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There's NO camber adjustment on the front of a 159 , standard or ti . Powerflex bushes developed by them and Ned are adjustable due to the metal centre sleeve not having the bolting hole DEAD centre. So the hole is off-set with an outer ' tophat ' that can be moved with a special tool. With wishbone in place that centre sleeve can be twisted , so that the wishbone is either further or nearer to it's theoretical centre. Simple's !
To answer the ' wear ' question --- if you lower a car by any method , the camber automatically increases it's negative value period . This causes the tread patch touching the tarmac to be less than the tyre width --- hence inside tyre edge wear. Standard 159's without any mod's wear badly on the inside edge anyway but would be worse if lowered without Powerflex adjustable bushes.
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Suspension upgrade

After experiencing strange noises, unpredictable quirks from the front end (I.e bump & brake steer) for a while, which I just put down to it being a quirky Italian motor (it's looks keep me happy!) and now a broken rear spring!!!
I have now taken a leap of faith after reading this thread and ordered bilstein B4 dampers and sports spring set, plus the HD stabiliser links.
Once fitted I'll be contacting Autolusso for the power-flex setup (I was looking to do this anyway this spring, even before considering to upgrade suspension?)
I'm a complete novice at this stuff, and the info on this site has been very helpful.
I will follow up with an honest review of any difference it has made to the car.
Cheers for all the advice and help provided on this forum.

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Had one of my rears crack last week, so plumped for the Eibachs.
Super happy. The ride is a bit harsher now but far more composed.

Got a bit of a shock when the bill came though. Ned told me labour was an hour per corner and I heard an hour and s... bugger. Oh well at least warranty has covered the bust one.
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labour was an hour per corner and I heard an hour and s... bugger.
Would that not be 4 hours labour as oppose to what you thought would be 7 hours? I'd have thought that would be a good thing? i think the main problem is that the blooming staff in these garages expect to be paid for working.
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No, I just thought it was 1 total
I'm always happy to pay for good work though.
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Well the ride on my car is much improved with the Bilstein B4 and Eibach springs, the fronts give a nice controlled, firmish but very comfortable ride over rough bits. The rears seem okay, but not totally solid like on my GT, not sure if there's other components on the rear apart from droplinks that could do with freshening up, maybe some of the bushes aren't so good.

I do have a bit of a concern on how the springs hold the back up. Ride height all round doesn't seem any different to the standard TI height, but the Eibachs defo sag more than the TI springs when the car is loaded up. I noticed with just the kids in the other day that the back end had gone down a fair bit, but just had a fairly large Woman in the back and the rear suspension didn't feel great. I might load the bike rack up tomorrow and see what the sag is like, because if the suspension doesn't take it, it's not gonna be a winner. Bizarre that my GT on Eibachs never grounds out even massively loaded, but when I put Eibachs on my old 156 SW, I had to take them off fairly quickly because they couldn't take much load at all.

Anyone using these springs on saloon or Sw that loads up a lot, maybe bikes on the back, camping equipment etc, any probs grounding out/ hitting bump stops?

They are defo the correct springs.

GT 3.2 V6 - Q2, KONI FSD & EIBACH PROKIT, GTA REMAP, MICHELLIN PS3's, BMC CDA
159 SW 2.4JTDM TI - ALFATUNED, WIZARD BACK BOXES, KW V3 COILOVERS, NOKIAN WR A3/MICHELLIN PS3, PCA DYNAMICS ALIGNMENT.
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I do find it interesting that looking at Jay's measurements, his are 8.5cm between rim and arch whereas mine are 10cms all round. Just had a look how much rear wishbone set up is, about 280 a corner, might give them a miss and try some new ARB bushes.
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My bump stops are quite battered all round but the roads I travel on aren't at all similar to you mainland guys, they are very poor. I have standard shocks with eibachs.

Where are you taking your measurements from as mine were and are still similar to jabas. Any reasonable load is seen with a difference in the ride height even with these springs.

I'm sure mine settled slightly from fitment over 2k miles. When fitted they seemed very similar to standard Ti ride height but now the fronts especially seem lower hence my thread a couple weeks back enquiring about changing back to standard springs.

Last edited by quinnj3; 10-04-15 at 22:04.
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Top of rim to bottom of arch, same profile tyre as Jaba's. I can't work out whether tyre profile would have any effect on the rim to arch measurement anyway, I would think it would be a constant.
To be fair, my GT being as solid as it is, it was always going to be a hard act to follow, but I thought it was possible on the 159. It is a good ride though, very comfy, so close to just what I wanted. I've got to start using the stereo more.
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