159 TI Suspension Upgrade Advice - Page 10 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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You know those mornings you wake up early and lay in bed browsing the net? Well I just got my monthly itch and thought id search KW V3 and ended up buying a set for 800. They're from Germany and as much as the webpage translater can show, the Coilovers are B stock, never fitted, but possibly without original packaging and light scratches. If all is hunky dory, that's a right price!

I may well be screwing the car up putting these on as I don't really have any problems as such, It's partially just that I have to scratch this itch, always wanted to see if they live up to the hype. Also, I just want my suspension to push back a bit more on fast bends.

The B4's and Eibachs on the front and the custom springs on the rear are very comfy at speed and pretty good around town, but I'm hoping the KWs just have a bit quicker control of rough surfaces at low speed. I'm going to shoot KW an email about the rear springs, I have to put 4 mountain bikes on a tow bar and 4 lads in the car for a trip down to Les Arcs, need to mKe sure the springs will suffice.

Having them delivered to work to avoid domestic conflict
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I forgot to take some over Christmas hols. I don't like taking pictures of the car when it's dirty as well. I'll get pics up next time I wash it. (Probably Saturday)


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Quinn, if you're out there, any chance you could measure from the top of the wheel rim to bottom of arch for me. I just want to see what a basic height is on 19" rims so I can work out the max height I'll be able to get on the KW's.
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I have to put 4 mountain bikes on a tow bar and 4 lads in the car for a trip down to Les Arcs, need to mKe sure the springs will suffice.
When you heading to Les Arcs... I'm based there all summer.
Absolutely love the drive down there.
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Quinn, if you're out there, any chance you could measure from the top of the wheel rim to bottom of arch for me. I just want to see what a basic height is on 19" rims so I can work out the max height I'll be able to get on the KW's.

Ok I've not had a chance to wash the car but I'll put up some pics here anyway. The measurement is 115mm all round from top of rim to arch.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...7a7072e678.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...254bd01520.jpg

Note my drive slopes away slightly, when standing the ride height does not appear so high.


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When you heading to Les Arcs... I'm based there all summer.
Absolutely love the drive down there.
Eurotunnel 9th July, so should get there early evening. I don't suppose you do guiding? Actually I don't think Engilsh can because the French kicked off about it??
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Ok I've not had a chance to wash the car but I'll put up some pics here anyway. The measurement is 115mm all round from top of rim to arch.http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...7a7072e678.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...254bd01520.jpg

Note my drive slopes away slightly, when standing the ride height does not appear so high.


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Cheers Quinn,
That doesn't look particularly high, I think you done well there. My rears are 11cms now and I think they look perfect and totally useable. I've seen lusso ride height look a way bigger gap than yours, but that's probably on 17 and 18".

Looks like I could be properly screwed on ride height with the KWs, if they drop minimum 35mm rear, I'm potentially looking at 80mm rim to arch. Oh poo.
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I may well be screwing the car up putting these on as I don't really have any problems as such, It's partially just that I have to scratch this itch, always wanted to see if they live up to the hype.
Looking forward to your review, as I am interested by Novitec coil-overs that apparently use KW absorbers (but are cheaper for some reason).

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Having them delivered to work to avoid domestic conflict
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Ok I've not had a chance to wash the car but I'll put up some pics here anyway. The measurement is 115mm all round from top of rim to arch.

Note my drive slopes away slightly, when standing the ride height does not appear so high.
Could you also give the results for the measurement from the centre hub to the arch please?

I have finally measured it for my car and in front I have 34 cm and 34,5 cm. Doesn't it seem to be bit lower than standard TI? It's closer to the results Jabawok has posted after installing B12.

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This is on KWs, I'm praying he's on max drop at 70mm, but even raising it 35mm, is still goin to be fairly slammed.
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Cheers Quinn,

That doesn't look particularly high, I think you done well there. My rears are 11cms now and I think they look perfect and totally useable. I've seen lusso ride height look a way bigger gap than yours.

Yes, I was surprised when I seen it for the first time, I expected it to be on stilts. It just looks right to me now.

The ride has softened slightly now there's a few thou miles done but I'm very happy overall now with the setup.


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Cheers Quinn,
That doesn't look particularly high, I think you done well there. My rears are 11cms now and I think they look perfect and totally useable. I've seen lusso ride height look a way bigger gap than yours, but that's probably on 17 and 18".

Looks like I could be properly screwed on ride height with the KWs, if they drop minimum 35mm rear, I'm potentially looking at 80mm rim to arch. Oh poo.
Is it just the rears that bothers you? I wonder if you could get a spacer made up for between the top mount and the chassis? There's plenty of thread poking through on the shock rod, you might be able to get away with 15mm, maybe 20mm.

I would also expect that 35mm minimum drop to be based on a standard model, not a Ti. 35mm lower than a Lusso would be about right? Also you can play around with tyre profile to assist with clearance.
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Is it just the rears that bothers you? I wonder if you could get a spacer made up for between the top mount and the chassis? There's plenty of thread poking through on the shock rod, you might be able to get away with 15mm, maybe 20mm.

I would also expect that 35mm minimum drop to be based on a standard model, not a Ti. 35mm lower than a Lusso would be about right? Also you can play around with tyre profile to assist with clearance.
That's not a bad idea Dan, I'll see if I've got one of the old top mounts and see if it's feasible, I don't remember the rear top mounts being a non symetrical shape. Could be a good plan anyway in view of what you've said in the past about losing comfort levels the higher you wind the coilovers up.

I assumed KW would take the drop from a Lusso and with Quinn having Lusso springs on 19's, I figured that would be a good indication. Looking back at page 1 though, Coxy has 16cm rim to arch on his original springs, but I reckon they're 17" wheels.

KW do do those spacers you put in between coils for caravaners, but doubt they do them for our lowly Alfas. I'm going to shoot them an email.
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....
KW do do those spacers you put in between coils for caravaners, but doubt they do them for our lowly Alfas. I'm going to shoot them an email.
Just a thought
KW do a hydraulic lift kit that will go straight on your V3's, just fit to the rear and lift it 45mm when you need to. I'm guessing the KW V3 will have the 45mm droop needed. Ideally just need someone with KW V3's fitted to jack up there car and give you some measurements.
KW automotive GmbH - Gewindefahrwerke, Rennsportfahrwerke, Sportfedern - KW HLS

Its also possible to fit taller springs if you run out of spring purch adjustment.

There are always ways to get over these little hitches like Dan's suggestion too, so don't worry.
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Just a thought
KW do a hydraulic lift kit that will go straight on your V3's, just fit to the rear and lift it 45mm when you need to. I'm guessing the KW V3 will have the 45mm droop needed. Ideally just need someone with KW V3's fitted to jack up there car and give you some measurements.
KW automotive GmbH - Gewindefahrwerke, Rennsportfahrwerke, Sportfedern - KW HLS

Its also possible to fit taller springs if you run out of spring purch adjustment.

There are always ways to get over these little hitches like Dan's suggestion too, so don't worry.
'If you cannot find your vehicle in our KW HLS product range, our engineers have also developed a universal lift system' oh no
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Its also possible to fit taller springs if you run out of spring purch adjustment.
Yes actually this would be my first course of action before getting spacers made up to fit between the top mount and chassis. We do exactly the same thing for the Eibach Pro Street S coilovers on the front of the GTAs.

Al - the rear top mounts are an alumium plate which has rubber below. The plate is bolted to the chassis with 4 E-bolts and then the shock rod is further supported from the inside of the car by a metal cup and a nut.
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Eurotunnel 9th July, so should get there early evening. I don't suppose you do guiding? Actually I don't think Engilsh can because the French kicked off about it??
They don't like anyone but the French earning money in their country.
But yeah we guide over there... and legally too.
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Not that I want them, but can anyone explain the pros and cons of having these http://youtu.be/JI9kW8zcAlo. I would've thought you'd get some harshness not having any of the thick rubber seen on top mounts. Are they for camber adjustment?

I've emailed KW about the possibility of having some longer springs made to get somewhere around 15-40mm adjustment. Long shot for a one off, but I suppose if I get no joy, I could send the originals off to coilspringsuk and see if they can help out.
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The puppies just arrived I feel sick I'm so excited.
They may be B Stock but they were packaged as factory and everything is present, so i reckon I did well. The only thing they may be different to brand spankers is that i have to use a separate knob to adjust the damping whereas on newer models (maybe not Alfa) they have integrated adjustment wheels.
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Looking good, so you fitting these this weekend then?
Yeah you don't need those solid top mounts on a road car unless your really serious about eliminating all the rubber in the suspension and turning it into a 1.6 ton go-cart and sending your wheels square on pot holes!

You cant adjust camber/caster with those plates, but even if they were our double wishbone suspension isn't adjusted for camber/caster in the top mount anyway, your thinking of McPherson strut suspension.

As long as your std top mounts are in good condition, just stick with those.

The numbers on those springs: 60-200 and 90-200 I believe from looking at your picture?
Well the first number is spring rate in Newtons/mm, the second number is length. So both are 200mm.
If you did want to use a longer spring you would ask for 60-250 for example for the rears.

If you want to go alittle higher spring rate in the rear I have run a 70N/mm linear spring before and its about the limit for comfort vs performance. It may surprise many that you actually don't feel high front spring rates through your backside/spine as much as having a high rear spring rate. High rear spring rates are only for the track not pot holed public roads...don't ask me how I know!lol

hth
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Hi James,

I have to go up to Lancaster this weekend so can't play on the car unfortunately. All my top mounts are only a few months old, but I'm going to buy new ones so I can leave the Eibach/B4 struts made up ready for a quick change should I have made a mistake with these KWs. It looks like the KW springs won't need compressing to put the top mounts on, so fronts I can swap without touching spring compressors. I enjoy doing the fronts, but rears drove me mad and scared the sheet out of me with how much the spring needed compressing.

You're correct on the spring rates. I've had some quick replies from Alan at KW, his suggestion is to try them and when loading up, stiffen the damping up. If that doesn't work then they can help out further. Pete did say the springs are fairly thin, but they are more so than I thought they would be.

I've a lot of travel coming up, so it could be May by the time I get round to it, actually I'll never resist that long!

Want to get the brakes sorted at the same time, so Ned if you're out there, are you still doing that deal on PF pads supplied and fitted with high temp fluid and braided lines?
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Just having a read off the instructions, very refreshing to see good instructions. Apparently max approx height is 370mm from axle centre to wheel arch, tho is pretty much where I am now, but can anyone confirm that with the axle to wheel arch would be a constant measure regardless of wheel size? I can't get figure it out
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May!! only kidding mate, I couldn't wait that long

Yes interesting KW said adjust damping, this won't stop the rear sagging under weight, but would slow down the speed they hit the bump stops...eek.
I'd wind the rear spring purch up something like 15mm (as a guesstimate) just for your trip and that will raise the rear about 20-25mm due to the rear shock position on the lower arm.

If you can't get the rear to sit normal with all the bikes etc and it still sags down on the bump stops, then you'l need higher rear rate springs.
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Just having a read off the instructions, very refreshing to see good instructions. Apparently max approx height is 370mm from axle centre to wheel arch, tho is pretty much where I am now, but can anyone confirm that with the axle to wheel arch would be a constant measure regardless of wheel size? I can't get figure it out
Yes axle to arch is constant, rim to arch isn't across different wheel diameters.
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James, I wonder what your thoughts are here. This is a quote from a KW tech- "The idea of compressing or de-compressing the spring by turning the spring perch is wrong! Here’s an example to clarify: imagine you put an adjustable height chair on a weight scale. You sit on it and increase the height – will you get heavier? Of course you see a pre-compression of the spring when the shock is lying in front of you but this situation will not appear in the car. The change of spring rate and pre-compression only starts when the maximum drop is reached and you keep winding up. Going back to our example, once you reach the roof with your head and keep turning up, your weight on the scale will increase as you get compressed"

Taking this into account along with your earlier suggestion of winding the spring up more and also the KW instruction that the max height I should wind the spring perch up to is 195mm. I would have about another 50mm of unused thread, so do you reckon if I were to wind up more than the 195mm, that I'd actually change the spring rate thus making A- the back end sit higher and B- stiffening up the spring, so maybe an ideal situation for when carrying heavy loads?
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Alex chill man.

Just read this coilover worry thread. My god firstly what a deal. Secondly keep your knickers on they will be fine. Just adjust them higher when you take your heavy load to france. Although taking a GT with all those bikes and a full car is nuts brother? As KW have mentioned you can adjust the rebound and stiffness. Very handy when dealing with increased weight in the car. Longer stiffer springs will F'k up the ride quality and make the rear skittish. Please don't do it. The kit is designed to work with the spring rate presented.

Make sure you buy some coilover covers for them to protect the threads and bodies from all that winter weather crap. The shock bodies are brilliant quality , and have excellent anti corrosion properties but its always nice to protect the central part and the thread.

They are the best coilover money can buy for the GT. I think you will love them once properly adjusted. Look forward to your feedback once they are on your beast.

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Hi Damian,

These are for my 159, I'm still utterly smitten with the FSDs and Eibachs on the Gt, so no need to change (yet). I just found an old thread, post #19 http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...gs-change.html (159TI springs change?)with some estimated Spring rates for Eibach rears and they're about 40 n/mm compared to 60 on the KW. I don't know know if this a straight comparison as Spring lengths are around 10cm different, I get confused here.
Anyway, I went to bed last night ready to get coilspringsuk to make me some longer springs, but if those Spring rates above are a fair comparison, then I ought to be okay. I'm honestly not a nutter
I'm looking forward to seeing if I can get low speed town driving better and 80mlh cruising more planted- oh wait, I'm gonna need EDC.
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