1.10 a litre (have also found 90p a Litre) - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 13 Old 06-06-12 Thread Starter
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1.10 a litre (have also found 90p a Litre)

Hi Guys,

As the title hints at, I'm currently running my 159 1.9JTDm on 1.10 a litre Biodiesel.

Before anyone starts groaning and imagining all sorts of issues with damaged engines, broken fuel pumps, cold weather problems etc can I just dispel a few myths.

I am using 'Biodiesel' NOT cooking oil.

It conforms to EN14214 (which means it must meet certain criteria and compare to fossil diesel)

I have used biodiesel in a HDI engined van for many thousands of miles with no issues (other than a wheel falling off, but I don't think that was fuel related!)

I spent ages looking for examples of other people running Alfas on Bio but have so far only come across one guy on here (IIRC an australian) who posted a big story about how he makes his own and runs is 159 on it, and one other guy who hinted at it in a thread but didn't elaborate.

After a few years looking into producing my own Bio I decided I'm far to lazy to bother, it seems like a perfect solution for creating your own fuel, but have you actually tried to source used veg oil? every man and his dog already have arrangements with local chippys/restaurants etc and buying it from ebay will cost you a minimum 50p a litre, after the cost of the other chemicals and the time and effort it takes to make a good batch it's just not worth it.

I've been running my 159 1.9JTDm on 100% bio for about 3k miles with no problems (I introduced it over a couple of weeks, 50/50 mix first, then 70/30 then 100% Bio)

I have a cold start issue which is being caused by the fuel filter, It's well documented that Biodiesel is a solvent, it cleans your fuel system and dumps all the ****e straight into your fuel filter so it's recommended that after the first 1000 miles or so you should change the filter (it's a service item anyway, so no big deal)

I actually buy BioHeat which is the same as Biodiesel (comes out of the same pump at the place I buy it from) but I have to buy it in containers and put it in the car when I get home.
This way I am classed as a biofuel producer (because I have taken a biofuel not intended for road use and converted the purpose of it to power a road vehicle) this way I can 'produce' 2500 Litres a year without paying fuel duty on it (as long as I keep records to prove how much I use, no problem for me as I have to keep records for work anyway)

(I have seem places advertising BioHeat at 90p per Litre and still conforming to EN14214 I havent tried them yet, but will do)



If anyone wants any clarification of the law (which I have researched extensively) or any advice about Biodiesel. then ask away

And yes it does make your car smell like chips...

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That, in all honesty, sounds genious.

My only concern would be that, because as you are proving it is so much more economic, why is everyone not using it?

Also, how does it compare up in terms of mpg? Obviously if it runs at 6mpg it isn't worth it, but if it is on a par with standard Diesel then it is another consideration.

And, in terms of power and the delivery of that power, does it make a great deal of difference?

Liam
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Hi, I have run previous cars, single tank and twin tanked on veg oil. Also run a 2003 VW golf on bio for 6 months or so.

I bought the Alfa and have never put bio anywhere near it for a few reasons, but mostly its not worth the effort.

Is 26p/litre saving really worth it, 15 a tank. Especially when you have to mix it with petrol during the winter, or cetane improver to try and get back the MPG you lost.

There are easier ways to save 15.
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(Post Link) post #4 of 13 Old 06-06-12 Thread Starter
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Realistically I get a couple of mpg less when using Bio.

Performance wise it the same (as far as I can tell)

The main reason I can tell for more people not using it is that whenever I tell anyone about it they either laugh their socks off about the smell of chips and then forget all about it, or they 1/2 remember some long lost 'fact' about Biodiesel made from waste veg oil turning solid in winter or rotting rubber seals and breaking fuel pumps.

proper Biodiesel doesn't get thicker than normal diesel till about -5 C (so in winter use a mix of pump diesel and Bio, and most modern cars havent used rubber seals for over 10 years.

I'm not saying everyone should rush out and start using it tomorrow, or use it at all, but I know there must be a number of people who want to try it but don't want to be first.

I'm happy to be one of the first and to report back that it's good, cheap and works well in my 16v JTDm (I was worried about using it in a 150bhp engine) If you want to give it a go then I'd recommend it, if you don't like it you can always revert to pump diesel with no side effects.

If you have issues with putting anything in your car that's not from a forecourt then thats up to you, I'm not trying to convert you.

But I love it and will continue to use it (just to reiterate, I only use EN14214 Bio, I don't use stuff produced in a garden shed by some bloke down the road)

It can be a pain in the arse to buy as it's not available on every street corner, but the savings are well worth it to me.

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(Post Link) post #5 of 13 Old 06-06-12 Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=benallenuk;4827624Is 26p/litre saving really worth it, 15 a tank. Especially when you have to mix it with petrol during the winter, or cetane improver to try and get back the MPG you lost.

There are easier ways to save 15.[/QUOTE]

26p/Litre roughly 20% saving

Must admit the loss of mpg isn't very much, certainly nowhere near the 20% saving (at worst around 10% probably only around 5% if driven the same)

I fill up from empty to full about every 5 days so 15 per fill becomes around 22 per week which is over 1100 a year, factor in the loss of mpg and it's saving me around 600-700 a year.

I agree it's not for everyone, but it suits me fine. and in these times when people are trying to save whatever they can whenever they can a 20% reduction in fuel bills can't be bad.

Out of interest what where your reasons for not putting Bio near your alfa?
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where do you buy it from? assume manchester somewhere?
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Very interesting thread firemanaxe.

I had a 52 plate golf TDI a number of years ago (pump duse i think it's known as) and i wanted to put bio diesel in it. I did a little research and found a number of people putting just a mixture of normal diesel in and bio.

I did however, call a main VW dealer and they didn't recommend it at all! They said it would cause engine damage through the fuel pump and possibly the injectors.

The same was said when i had a ford focus TDCI. The service manager said there wasn't enough evidence to suggest it was safe to use.

I know in your experience it has been good. I would still be interested to try it but don't fully trust what is being sold.

Then again, i'm pretty sure morrisons sell bio diesel at the pump!
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where you getting it from, fireman? there's a place not far from me in bury that sells it (not sure what the price is) but i've always been a bit wary as it seemed a bit 'backstreet' if that makes sense. bloke over the road makes his own from veg oil in his garage but a) he's a chemistry teacher so presumably knows what he's doing, and b) he runs a 1995 land rover defender which i reckon would probably run on tesco value charcoal briquettes if needs be
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(Post Link) post #9 of 13 Old 07-06-12 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tricolori View Post
Then again, i'm pretty sure morrisons sell bio diesel at the pump!
Yep, infact all UK Diesel is at least 5% Bio and has been for a number of years (IIRC that figure has now been increased to 7%)

and thats from every single petrol station in the country, not just supermarkets, but all the big names as well.


I used to get it for my van from a bloke in Bury (can't remember the road he was on but it was a little back street unit he sold it from, around tottington road somewhere I think), also a place near ramsbottom not far from the tesco, again a bit back street looking, but I never had a problem with it.

I currently get it from fuller-fuel in Widnes (they have a website) as I go past there a couple of times a week so it's not too much of a pain to call on the way home.

(I have no affiliation with them, just thats who I use)

I figure if they are prepared to go to the trouble and expence of having it tested and conforming to the EN standards then it must be pretty consistant quality.

There is also a guy selling on ebay at the moment for 90p per litre, he's based around south Manchester, I havent had a chance to try him yet, but he's EN14214 quality as well (according to his advert) so I'll try him eventually.
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Hi, I went through 3 Bosch injection pumps on my Peugout 306, it was cheaper to buy and replace the pumps with 2nd hand units than have new seals put in.

Regarding the Alfa. They have enough problems without adding bio-diesel Into the equation. It would be a nightmare to work out if poor running was caused by running the engine on bio or a faulty MAF, EGR or injector for example.

I ended up saving around 100 a month when running on veg. I ended up saving more by lift sharing instead, do quickly lost interest!

Also, unless every batch of bio is tested, you can never be sure that all the methonol has been removed, or worse still you get part transesterification and start burning part veg oil.

Just make sure you change your engine oil regularly and if you see the level rising, investigate fast!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanAxe View Post
Hi Guys,

As the title hints at, I'm currently running my 159 1.9JTDm on 1.10 a litre Biodiesel.

Before anyone starts groaning and imagining all sorts of issues with damaged engines, broken fuel pumps, cold weather problems etc can I just dispel a few myths.

I am using 'Biodiesel' NOT cooking oil.

It conforms to EN14214 (which means it must meet certain criteria and compare to fossil diesel)

I have used biodiesel in a HDI engined van for many thousands of miles with no issues (other than a wheel falling off, but I don't think that was fuel related!)

I spent ages looking for examples of other people running Alfas on Bio but have so far only come across one guy on here (IIRC an australian) who posted a big story about how he makes his own and runs is 159 on it, and one other guy who hinted at it in a thread but didn't elaborate.

After a few years looking into producing my own Bio I decided I'm far to lazy to bother, it seems like a perfect solution for creating your own fuel, but have you actually tried to source used veg oil? every man and his dog already have arrangements with local chippys/restaurants etc and buying it from ebay will cost you a minimum 50p a litre, after the cost of the other chemicals and the time and effort it takes to make a good batch it's just not worth it.

I've been running my 159 1.9JTDm on 100% bio for about 3k miles with no problems (I introduced it over a couple of weeks, 50/50 mix first, then 70/30 then 100% Bio)

I have a cold start issue which is being caused by the fuel filter, It's well documented that Biodiesel is a solvent, it cleans your fuel system and dumps all the ****e straight into your fuel filter so it's recommended that after the first 1000 miles or so you should change the filter (it's a service item anyway, so no big deal)

I actually buy BioHeat which is the same as Biodiesel (comes out of the same pump at the place I buy it from) but I have to buy it in containers and put it in the car when I get home.
This way I am classed as a biofuel producer (because I have taken a biofuel not intended for road use and converted the purpose of it to power a road vehicle) this way I can 'produce' 2500 Litres a year without paying fuel duty on it (as long as I keep records to prove how much I use, no problem for me as I have to keep records for work anyway)

(I have seem places advertising BioHeat at 90p per Litre and still conforming to EN14214 I havent tried them yet, but will do)



If anyone wants any clarification of the law (which I have researched extensively) or any advice about Biodiesel. then ask away

And yes it does make your car smell like chips...

OP,

Do you have any update on this please? Are you still running Bio? Any long term advantages/ disadvantages if you are? I've never used it but there seems to be more companies popping up at the moment with retail pumps so it'd be interesting to hear your experiences seen as you originally posted this 4 years ago
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This topic fascinates me, being a tight wad. My brother ran his Pug 405 on cooling oil, or a mix of, without any ill effects for many years. My son in law uses the same stuff in a 50/50 mix in his jeep, so far so good.
I can across an outfit called Fuller Fuels, they seem to cover a chunk of the North West, there websit is a bit chunky but there are loads of snazzy pictures of SS pipes and stuff. The one thing that concerns me is they don't mention any confirmation of testing (EN14214). My mileage is not really worth the effort but I love the idea of cheaper fuel!
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(Post Link) post #13 of 13 Old 11-07-16 Thread Starter
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Yeah Fuller Fuels have expanded and now have a couple of depots.

I don't work anywhere near any of them though anymore so haven't bought any for ages (I keep meaning to have a trip to their Salford depot as that's the closest to me but haven't yet)

I used them for fuel for 2 years until I changed jobs, no problems or issues, just saved loads of money.

:-)

Axe.
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