I guess some of this being dragged off topic is down to me so, sorry!
Gentlemen, if I have agrieved anyone here then I really do apologise but, I stick by what I know and what I have experienced. I only know what I know, and I fully agree that weight and inertia = understeer but sometimes things are not as simple as they first seem. A Bee should not fly but it does. A 2.4ti at high speeds on a twisty road should not outperform a lighter car but in my own experience it does, something others have also found. It does have different suspension due to its heavier nose, and at lower speeds and tighter corners it easily gets left behind as it understeers and shreds its tyres, but not at the opposite end of the perfomance spectrum.
I am no expert, at least not in this subject but we do seem to have several well educated people whose schooling vastly exceeds my own which is good, because we always need spurts!
Instead of repeatedly bashing me for being the obvious idiot I am, DUH, muppet! perhaps one of you fine people could use your intelligence to explain how this could happen, how can a 2.4 be better than the smaller engined models on a fast flowing B road at speed. It is most certainly true against the 1.9 but I would have to conceed the jury is out in my case on TBI models, and this could only be sorted should harleyriv drive his fine handling TBI and I drive a 2.4 back to back, and that's not liable to happen is it so, we will have to park that one and each to his own opinion.
Old Engineer and George K, as spurts in these things (well, in comparison to me), could you also explain the following points you make with regards to F1 cars going fast due to downforce and the minimum weight F1 cars are built to.
2011 F1 cars are much heavier than last seasons as they start the race with enough fuel for the entire race, yet they have much less downforce (have you seen the puny size of that rear wing). By the end of this season with developments and tweaks it is accepted they will be as fast as last years cars, they are nearly there now. How so? Every time they change the rules on F1 the engineers develop a car which eventually ends up as fast as the previous one. And with less downforce this year, it has started already. Also, what has the minimum weight of the car got to do with what has been discussed??? we all know they have a minimum weight and drive on the marbles at race end to pick up weight to ensure they are above the designated minimum, sans driver and helmet. Not sure of the relevance of that comment but, what do I know, I probably missed something
So peoples, how come with less downforce and a heavier car due to it big tank they are just as fast?? Would any of that be down to tyres and other stuff like suspension...... hmmm highly unlikely as that then brings the argument full circle doesnt it
My head now hurts, my understanding of physics and stuff is expended so this is where I step away and leave you to it