Steering Alignment (with Correct Data in Post 1) - Page 8 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Thanks David , I did that last March and its still wearing inner edges. There have been no kerb mishaps but, it's still possible that it has moved since then. So, before going to the garage for it to be checked I wanted to check my options
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As David says - also just make sure that the garage set it exactly at zero.
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Taking my 159Ti in on Friday, just got it last week and tyres look good (P Zeros all around) but I thought its worth getting it checked. Talked to the guy today and he will set to the right settings.

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Had my alignment done today (here in the Netherlands) with the information found in this topic.

Explained to the mechanic what I wanted, and showed him the alignment report from the first posting and the original settings found in the cars' manual.
Told him I wanted the front set to zero.

The guy start working on my 159, and returns after 45 min to tell me the camber on the front wheels is not adjustable and way out of specs. He suggest to take the front toe even beyond the zero and set it to positive, because otherwise I would still be wearing off the inside of my front tires.

I agreed to that.

After turning home I compared the print I got from him with all the infomation I had gathered. All seemed fine at first sight, till it suddenly hit me .... The (default-)values for the rear toe ("achter" - "toespoor") were negative numbers in stead of positive.

I went to the garage again, and showed them the things I found.
"Sorry sir, seems to be a mistake in our computer"
Due to the huge workload there this time of year (everyone wants their wintertires changed back to regular tires, just like me) there was no opportunity to do the alignment again today.
Have to wait another week before I can go there again.

Since I have to go there again and redo the alignment I want to do it right this time.
So my question is: Do I stick to the positive toe on the front wheels like they suggested or should I ask for a Zero setting like suggested in this topic?
Any other sugestions for improvement?
I attached the report I got. It is Dutch, so you probably will not understand the words, but the numbers are all the same in English
Everything written by hand is done by me and should be the reference numbers I found here and in the car manual.

thnx for your help/comments, and excuse me for my English as according to my teacher I am not that good with foreign languages
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The rear needs to toe-in (difficult to work out what you have from that printout).

The front @ zero toe would have been fine, your camber isn't that far off and isn't excessive.
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What he said +1.

And a good alignment company with good kit will get the front toe spot on quite easily. The rear is a bit harder and may be one or two minutes out but don't accept any more.
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The measured camber looks right for a Ti (running lower suspension).
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@ David C, kandlbarrett & 2ndtimearound

thnx for the replies!

I will have it re-aligned next week. Will ask for zero again on the front and +13 for each wheel on the rear, just like the first posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
... difficult to work out what you have from that printout
This is a link to a larger picture of my printout

Last edited by HeMaN; 23-03-12 at 09:33.
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Hello, i am struggling with my car pulling to the left, i recently had it aligned, they gave me the following print out but to be honest i dont really understand it! It is still pulling to the left. Is my car setup correctly or what settings should i get them to set it to? It is a 06 plate GT 2.0JTS with 17" Alloys. It is in the garage at present but getting it back on tuesday and want to take it somewhere to get "profesionally" aligned instead of the dubious places i have used previously!

Basically, does this printout look correct or is this the cause of pulling to the left and general bad handleing? Only had the car 2 weeks and been back with garage for the last week!
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You have a GT and this thread is about the 159/Brera!

The GT is basically the 156/147 platform and we always said on those to set to Zero. You probably need to post this on the other forum but I don't like the 'Final' settings they have given you. They should be able to set them up evenly and they haven't! The rear is worse than when you went in. You have 1.2 on the left and 1.6 on the right. This means the rear is crabbing and you are having to put in steering input to keep it straight.

I just think you have a dreadful mechanic and he should be ashamed.
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Oops sorry didn't know it was 159, sorry!

Last person who aligned it was terrible but its going to a proper garage with hunter equipment next weekend to sort it out.
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Be aware that you can run out of adjustment on the rear before getting the correct setting. If this happens then the rear should at least be set to the same each side.
My son's 147 was done this W/E and the rear should be +13 deg each side. The offside was done first and got 13 easily but at 11 on the near side there was no more adjustment. The operator was going to leave the offside at 13 because he had adjusted that first but I told him I wouldn't accept that and made him set them both at 11.
I always ask to watch the setting; that way I can tell them if there is something I don't like before it comes off the ramp. I must say that the front track rod ends were very tight (almost seized) and were really tricky for the operator to get spot on but again I made him persevere.

Post edited 29/03/12 - correction to the obvious error above but the rear should be 13 minutes not the 13 deg I have stated.

Last edited by kandlbarrett; 29-03-12 at 18:26.
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Kandlbarrett, can i ask a favour please....

You seem to know your stuff about alignment etc, i have had mine done by the garage i bought it from Again today(volvo dealer, long story) , it DOES feel better but it doesnt feel right, i have uploaded a copy of the alignment report but i dont understand it 100%. I can see the 2 fronts are the same and the back 2 are the same also, but are they correct? ALso, it seems my Camber is well out or am i reading it wrong?
I am going to take it to a garage i have found near me from alignmycar.com who does proper alignment using hunter equipment and they advised me they can look and adjust camber if required. I will upload 2 reports i have had recently, the colour one from bush tyres was done originally but i had a buckled alloy at the time. The black and white one was done today and is up to date. Am i right to be worried about camber settings?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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Well, you have balance now. Front and Rear are even so I'm expecting that the steering pull has been fixed?

However, you don't have the recommended 'Zero'. You've got minus 0.08 on each wheel (0.16 total toe out). Probably because the garage has allowed the computer to tell them what to set.
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+1 what OldEngineer said too much toe will continue to wear inside edges and steering will feel slightly lighter than it does at 0.

Your rear toe is equivalent to +16 minutes each side or total of +32 minutes; is that correct? If it is out it is not a lot and I don't think you would feel that in the way it drives. (147 is +13 each side at rear or total rear toe of +26 minutes.)

The front camber and caster I don't really understand the reading and I don't know what would be correct. It may be adjustable like the 159 by moving the subframe - you can do this with the 159 but it is time consuming and will cost probably an extra 40 - 50 in addition to the four wheel alignment and you would need to find a garage (body shop or Alfa specialist) prepared to go to that trouble. However, if it is you could possibly equalise the camber which is uneven and, if needed, alter the caster.

I would want a refund from the first alignment. They are damned by their own evidence that the rear was not evenly adjusted. Also while Alfa reduced the front toe for the 159 I don't know if they did the same for the GT. If they did then the first centre have set the front to -6 minutes which may not be to Alfa's latest recommendation.

The second centre have set the front to -0.08 deg which is -4.8 minutes. The recommendation here is set to 0 but, if that is not the latest Alfa recommendation you are on a sticky wicket to get the front to be set to 0 for free. It might be worth just "blagging" it and tell the centre Alfa changed the setting and their machine is wrong so you would like them to set it to 0 without charge. Is "blagging" the same as lying? I also notice rear camber is uneven; is it adjustable on the GT? It is on the 159 but doesn't appear to be on the 147.

Personally I would get the toe set to 0 (for free) and see how you feel about the car then. Be aware though as the trouble is once you start with this alignment stuff you always think there are more improvements to have.

Finally: I only know about the 159 and 147 and that is from reading the threads here (most are OldEngineer's) crawling under them myself (wife has 159 son has 147) and watching what the alignment guys do. I was a mechanic (heavy plant trained and cars in spare time) but laying in mud in the rain or on a railway line in the rain covered in hydraulic oil convinced me there were better ways to earn a living. I also ran a heavy plant workshop (62 staff) what that did for me was make me confident enough to watch and challenge what the mechanics were doing, politely, with a smile and sometimes a joke but firmly if needed to get what I wanted.

Last edited by kandlbarrett; 28-03-12 at 21:37.
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Thanks for help and advice guys. Its driving much better now. Spoke to a local garage the other day who use hunter alignment and they know the Alfa Gt well by the sounds of it. 60 for a two hour alignment and they know a few tweaks to level camber so gonna take it there in the future. I presume -0.08 is near enough zero and can't cause much added tire wear? I would just like to know what the stock camber should be and also what rear toe in/out should be so I can ask for this before I take her in.
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Urgent & definitive answer needed if possible.

Having all 4 tyres on my 09 159ti replaced tomorrow. What are the front & rear settings I should ask the garage to use?

Current rears chewed to nothing after 6,000 & fronts also need replacing
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MattyC: -0.08 degrees is -4.8 minutes and that, as far as steering geometry is concerned, is actually rather a lot. Get it set to 0 and get it spot on.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kandlbarrett View Post
MattyC: -0.08 degrees is -4.8 minutes and that, as far as steering geometry is concerned, is actually rather a lot. Get it set to 0 and get it spot on.
OK. Will do. What should I ask them to set the rear to. In degrees/ minutes. Is the minus at the front meaning toe out? Cheers.
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MattyC: as my earlier post I do not know what the rear settings should be for a GT; I am just repeating what is stated here by others and using the experience gained from my own 147 and 159 and assuming (hoping?) it is appropriate to other cars. However, back to your point about the rear, I don't think Alfa have changed them so factory settings might be OK. If you look through the 147 / 156 / GT forum you may find the information there.
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Bradford159: it is in the first to pages of this thread. If you still have questions after reading that then return with them. I know it can be tedious scouring threads but you will learn a lot including the issues you may face when asking the alignment centre for something other than what the manufacturer states.
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OK, thanks very much for your help. Will get set to 0asap.
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Sat here having all 4 235/40/19 ContiSport taken off & Acceleras fitted. Will have same settings as your readout applied.

Cost all in with full 4 wheel Hunter alignment 520 vat inc
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Bradford: Mine is a standard 159 and yours is a TI. I believe the rear settings are different. The settings for a TI are on the first two pages of this thread.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kandlbarrett View Post
Bradford: Mine is a standard 159 and yours is a TI. I believe the rear settings are different. The settings for a TI are on the first two pages of this thread.
Front to 0 and rears to 13 is how it's been set up. Very smooth & straight.
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