Steering Alignment (with Correct Data in Post 1) - Page 5 - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
(Post Link) post #101 of 415 Old 23-01-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfred Rowmero View Post
If I was to print off Old Engineers attachment and take that to my garage would they be able to put the same settings on my Ti?

Is this the setup to go for? One of my tyres is nearly done due to uneven wear. Not picked the car up yet, but this will be the first job.

George K - is your setup the same as this? Pretty much?

I don't really understand it at all.
You can print my settings which will help you at the garage. What you will find (on many machines) is the dreaded computer control. What happens is they put your vehicle details in and it suggests the settings. You need them to overide this and actually put in the new settings.
Old Engineer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
(Post Link) post #102 of 415 Old 23-01-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjaminFR View Post
Is there an official document stating that valves should not as per the databook supplied by alfa romeo for TI models?
I have changed mine, stting it to "0" as per old engineer and many others recommandations... but cannot make it at alfa, because they remain stuck to -7 +/-4

I have found that behavior is different now at "0". Not so stuck to the ground as before, with slighly less roam noise as a good point.
Yes. Sticking with the old Alfa settings will make the 159 feel more 'agile'. That's because the inner wheel acts like an anchor when turning. This inner wheel then tears off its inside edge. The new settings still give a fast response but don't tear off the inside edges. You can also go to the Prodrive engineers for a complete understanding.
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: France, Metropolitan
County: Marne
Thanks for your help
benjaminFR is offline  
(Post Link) post #104 of 415 Old 24-01-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjaminFR View Post
Thanks for your help
And this post this evening reveals all...

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...ml#post4585133
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: Breraless :(
AO Platinum Member
 
Squadrone Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Neath Port Talbot
Images: 45
Had two new Bridgestone Potenza's fitted at Protyre in Warwick earlier

Peter Cambridge came along and oversaw the bespoke set up on my car, ably carried out by a chap called Jock

My car felt great but at almost 12k miles, the inners of the fronts were shot (4mm elsewhere).

Interestingly, the rears on my Q4 have taken a hammering, showing the rear drive bias!

Let's see how it does now. Certainly feels good on the road with a very "pointy" read end.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1327493009.494149.jpg (32.6 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1327493029.547398.jpg (31.8 KB, 31 views)
Squadrone Rosso is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso View Post
Had two new Bridgestone Potenza's fitted at Protyre in Warwick earlier

Peter Cambridge came along and oversaw the bespoke set up on my car, ably carried out by a chap called Jock

My car felt great but at almost 12k miles, the inners of the fronts were shot (4mm elsewhere).
I thought you had had the alignment done already?
Not great if it is still ripping the inner edge off...
David C is offline  
Status: Breraless :(
AO Platinum Member
 
Squadrone Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Neath Port Talbot
Images: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
I thought you had had the alignment done already?
Not great if it is still ripping the inner edge off...
That was on my old 3.2Q4 Brera

Do try to keep up
Squadrone Rosso is offline  
(Post Link) post #108 of 415 Old 25-01-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Images: 12
Let's hope the ProDrive settings still work for you. Any idea how the old Brera did?
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: Breraless :(
AO Platinum Member
 
Squadrone Rosso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Neath Port Talbot
Images: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Engineer View Post
Let's hope the ProDrive settings still work for you. Any idea how the old Brera did?
Well. Even wear more or less
Squadrone Rosso is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Images: 3
Seeing this a very appropriate thread I'll pose my question here. I've just had two new tyres on the front end, the OS one was very badly worn on the inside edge, NS fine, nice even wear pattern. The tyre shop I went to has a Hunter, so I asked them to check tracking etc. The tracking was:

NS -0.04' OS -0.03'

adjusted:

NS -0.07' OS -0.07'

Cross toe

before -0.06'

now -0.13'

I was expecting the OS reading to be way out to have caused the wear I described, but looking at the suggested settings in this thread, the old settings were just about OK. In fact I may now get even more adverse wear.

For reference rear toe is in spec and so is front camber. Rear camber is out though, although balanced (same both sides) and was not adjusted.

Someone said to me, "so whats so special about an Alfa Romeo then?" I told him, "If you have to ask, you wont understand".

Driving Brera S 2.2, wife drives 939 Spider 2.2, plus now a 147 1.6 TS whilst the Spider hibernates and there is a 1972 Spider 2000 S2 in the garage for fun days.
Top Down is offline  
(Post Link) post #111 of 415 Old 01-02-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Images: 12
You've been given the old settings so you are worse than when you went in. I expect they just fed in the Model details and the computer decided. Get back to Zero.
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfared159 View Post
...Rear camber is out though, although balanced (same both sides) and was not adjusted.
Why wasn't it adjusted?

Go back and get that sorted and (as above) get your front toe adjusted again before you rip the inner edge off of your new tyres...
David C is offline  
Status: Skunk'd...
Club Member
 
Clogz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso View Post
Had two new Bridgestone Potenza's fitted at Protyre in Warwick earlier

Peter Cambridge came along and oversaw the bespoke set up on my car, ably carried out by a chap called Jock

My car felt great but at almost 12k miles, the inners of the fronts were shot (4mm elsewhere).

Interestingly, the rears on my Q4 have taken a hammering, showing the rear drive bias!

Let's see how it does now. Certainly feels good on the road with a very "pointy" read end.

Hey SR those pics look familiar....

Perhaps some people may find this link useful. As has been stated before - the equipment to sort out any alignment issues is only as good as the person using it...

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...ml#post4535450
Clogz is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
Why wasn't it adjusted?

Go back and get that sorted and (as above) get your front toe adjusted again before you rip the inner edge off of your new tyres...
To be fair to them, I only asked for the front to be done, 45 plus VAT.

The rear camber readings are NS -1.22' and OS -1.24'

The rear tyres wear dead flat.

Last edited by Top Down; 01-02-12 at 21:45. Reason: additional info
Top Down is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Engineer View Post
You've been given the old settings so you are worse than when you went in. I expect they just fed in the Model details and the computer decided. Get back to Zero.
But the settings on the pdf I downloaded from your previous post say -8' +/- 4'. The specified range on the Hunter readout they gave me is -0.12' to -0.04', so isnt that up to date? It looks the same to me.
Top Down is offline  
(Post Link) post #116 of 415 Old 02-02-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfared159 View Post
But the settings on the pdf I downloaded from your previous post say -8' +/- 4'. The specified range on the Hunter readout they gave me is -0.12' to -0.04', so isnt that up to date? It looks the same to me.
I don't see where you get these figures. The very first post has the settings in bold of Minus 2' +/- 5' per wheel
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Engineer View Post
There you go...
OE, its the settings in the PDF that is in this post of yours that looks to be the same as those off the Hunter. Even based on the numbers in your post above, my settings of -0.07' are just within the Minus 2' +/- 5'that you refer too. Although unbalanced, my original settings of -0.03' and -0.04' were well within spec.

Understand, I'm not arguing with you, just trying to get a firm understanding and trying to draw on your knowledge. What bothers me, why did that one tyre scrub to the extent it did, with only -0.03' of toe. That is the first time in 60K miles the tracking has been done and the tyres have always worn dead flat. The NS front with -0.04 worn flat.
Top Down is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Alfared, I think you may be mixing degree & minutes units here.
You have put -0.04minutes (which would be -0.0007degrees)

However, -0.04degrees is -2.4minutes
David C is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
Alfared, I think you may be mixing degree & minutes units here.
You have put -0.04minutes (which would be -0.0007degrees)

However, -0.04degrees is -2.4minutes
No, I'm quoting minutes, copying exactly from the print out. So mine is now set to -0.07', both sides. I'll scan the print out from the Hunter I have and upload the PDF. Wont be able to do that 'till next Monday though.
Top Down is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfared159 View Post
No, I'm quoting minutes, copying exactly from the print out. So mine is now set to -0.07', both sides. I'll scan the print out from the Hunter I have and upload the PDF. Wont be able to do that 'till next Monday though.
Are you sure it isn't 0deg07' ?

Because 0.07' would be an impossibly small adjustment to make and is very different to 0deg07'
David C is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
Are you sure it isn't 0deg07' ?

Because 0.07' would be an impossibly small adjustment to make and is very different to 0deg07'
Indeed, I would expect it to be 0deg07', thats how I read it, and that is 7 minutes (60 minutes one degree). I wish I had that Hunter output on me, I could scan it and display it.
Top Down is offline  
(Post Link) post #122 of 415 Old 04-02-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfared159 View Post
OE, its the settings in the PDF that is in this post of yours that looks to be the same as those off the Hunter. Even based on the numbers in your post above, my settings of -0.07' are just within the Minus 2' +/- 5'that you refer too. Although unbalanced, my original settings of -0.03' and -0.04' were well within spec.

Understand, I'm not arguing with you, just trying to get a firm understanding and trying to draw on your knowledge. What bothers me, why did that one tyre scrub to the extent it did, with only -0.03' of toe. That is the first time in 60K miles the tracking has been done and the tyres have always worn dead flat. The NS front with -0.04 worn flat.
The PDF that's attached to the item starting "There you go..." is just the page showing the original (and wrong for tyre life) settings to help a poster with his rear settings. The PDF right at the start of this thread is the one you want.

If you think your readings are minutes you can leave them at -7 minutes safe in the knowledge that you are matching the tolerance for old and new but you will wear away the inner edge.

A proper 'Hunter' mechanic can get them spot on to Zero as in my PDF.

But I'm with Dave C on your details. We need to make sure your readings are not decimal degrees.
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Images: 3
Thanks for coming back OE. I'm happy that I'm talking about -0deg.07' (that is unless they are written differently to the way they appear on a marine navigation chart)

I will post a scan of the read out on monday.

This still does not answer my question though, NS tyre set at -0deg.04' wears flat, OS set at -0deg.04' scrubs inside. If they had both scrubbed equally, I could understand. This is the main thrust of my concern, this is what I need to fix.

I will monitor the tyre wear and may well get the tracking set at 0deg.00'.
Top Down is offline  
Status: supporting a bank near you
AO Silver Member
 
Top Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Images: 3
Here is a scan of the Hunter print out of my settings.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...eddocument.jpg

Over to you OE and David C.
Top Down is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfared159 View Post
Here is a scan of the Hunter print out of my settings.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...eddocument.jpg

Over to you OE and David C.
As we said, you left with more toe-out on the front than you started with, so they made it worse... and your rear camber is way off.
David C is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 159, Brera & 946 Spider

Tags
alignment , camber , caster , correct , data , post , steering , wheel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome