Steering Alignment (with Correct Data in Post 1) - Page 16 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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They might have the best system money can buy but they still need to operate it correctly. Not locking the steering wheel to dead ahead is not promising. If they follow the settings on the machine then they are wrong. But hey; this thread was meant to set the new standard and it's not that difficult.
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Just got back from collecting my car after getting the timing belt etc done. The mechanic told me the front tyres are nearly bold on the inner edge (I thought my car didn't suffer from this, clearly I was wrong), before swapping the tyres and getting some new ones I want to get the fronts realigned. There is a Hunter system just down the road, which I took the car there before (see attachment), they said alignment was fine when I took the car there last year when I got 4 new shoes, clearly they were a little wrong.

What should I be going to them and saying? I've read through the thread and still confused I've got the 1.9 Jtdm on 17" alloys (so not the TI), any advice would be greatly received.

Am I right in thinking I need toe for front to = 0 degrees? so get rid of -0.07 on near side and -0.10 on offside?

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It's all in post one. First you have to get them to override any automatic settings the machine might have. Most of these machines import the settings to make the job 'easy' for the mechanics. You need them to put in a manual override to set the fronts to 'minus 2 minutes each side' (4 minutes total).

But I would get the rears done first to remove the imbalance.
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Originally Posted by Old Engineer View Post
It's all in post one. First you have to get them to override any automatic settings the machine might have. Most of these machines import the settings to make the job 'easy' for the mechanics. You need them to put in a manual override to set the fronts to 'minus 2 minutes each side' (4 minutes total).

But I would get the rears done first to remove the imbalance.
Ok, so all I really need to do is take a print out of your "after" and give them that.

I'll give it a go and see if I get anywhere...hopefully can convince them it needs doing (the nearly bold tyres should help)
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I am a bit confused now

What should I use for my 159 1.9jtdm TI with 245/40/19 tires?

Just factory ones and the front to zero or??? completely different setup

Thank you in advance
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I am a bit confused now

What should I use for my 159 1.9jtdm TI with 245/40/19 tires?

Just factory ones and the front to zero or??? completely different setup

Thank you in advance
As in the first post. 1) Set the rears to factory settings (both alignment and Toe In. 2) Set the fronts to Minus 2' +/- 5' per wheel (double for total Toe Out)

This means the target is Minus 2' but it can be allowed to run between Minus 7' to Plus 3'. Therefore Zero is within tolerance and is easier to remember. (The original Ti setting target was Minus 7')
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I have just had my Tbi aligned and the guy said all settings were miles out...hence why the back end was a bit skittish. Feels miles better now but I only checked the front toe printout when I left and noticed he had done it to the old setting of -0.08 after I gave him the settings you suggested. I phoned them and they are going to redo the front however my question is this,

Is setting to 0.00 or to the suggested setting of -0.02 better for 'feel' in terms of handling. The reason I ask is that I have seen somewhere in this forum that 0.00 can make the steering feel vague?
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Hi, I have read almost the whole topic but I am confused. Just replaced two front tyres, bold on inner side. I got 4 wheels aligned - link below
it was ok before, they have not changed anything so I believe the problem with uneven tyre wear will continue.
To prevent that should I go to wheel alignment centre back and ask them to apply settings from page one ( -2' +/-5'per wheel)
I am confused if its real solution of my problem(camber) so if yous can have a look on my alignment print out from today. Thanks
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Old engineer

I have just had my Tbi aligned and the guy said all settings were miles out...hence why the back end was a bit skittish. Feels miles better now but I only checked the front toe printout when I left and noticed he had done it to the old setting of -0.08 after I gave him the settings you suggested. I phoned them and they are going to redo the front however my question is this,

Is setting to 0.00 or to the suggested setting of -0.02 better for 'feel' in terms of handling. The reason I ask is that I have seen somewhere in this forum that 0.00 can make the steering feel vague?
I has mine set to 0, I found it felt like a boat in comparison. So, took it back and set to -0.07 and feels much better. I'd rather replace tyres every 7K than have it handle worse
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You can also look at power flex, the lower rear bushing can move a lot, especially when the bushings start to go, you can leave the others as standard, some don't agree it's necessary though


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Hi, Should I go and ask alignment guys to use the settings from page one despite my front camber is much away
(Left -2*16' right-1*41) 1*1' +/-18' for Ti.
Would it help? I think I'll give it a try.
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Originally Posted by dareknewry View Post
Hi, I have read almost the whole topic but I am confused. Just replaced two front tyres, bold on inner side. I got 4 wheels aligned - link below
it was ok before, they have not changed anything so I believe the problem with uneven tyre wear will continue.
To prevent that should I go to wheel alignment centre back and ask them to apply settings from page one ( -2' +/-5'per wheel)
I am confused if its real solution of my problem(camber) so if yous can have a look on my alignment print out from today. Thanks

I'm not a expert but have they even done anything? I thought it's meant to be even, the after results look as bad as the before results? If I'm reading it right, I would be taking it back OR asking for your money back and taking it somewhere else where they can do it properly!
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They have not done anything. They did not charge anything. they said alignment was ok. The caster and camber is not adjustable. I can't leave it like that, think it still will be scrubbing inner front tyres so I would like to know what really helps. I hope the settings from "Old Engineer" will do.

Thanks.
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The caster and camber is not adjustable.
Camber is adjustable on the rear though.

As for the front, unless you go for the special bushes, the best you can do is set the toe close to zero.
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Originally Posted by dareknewry View Post
They have not done anything. They did not charge anything. they said alignment was ok. The caster and camber is not adjustable. I can't leave it like that, think it still will be scrubbing inner front tyres so I would like to know what really helps. I hope the settings from "Old Engineer" will do.

Thanks.

I would take it somewhere else if they say that's ok. Front and rear toe ideally wants to be the same, rear camber should be adjustable also and sometimes getting them the same, sorts out caster anyway. Getting rear camber level may help front camber.
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I've got a slightly different question over this alignment problem.

I have a 2.2 JTS Brera on standard 17" wheels. When I bought it new in 2006 it presumably came with the factory settings which my handbook quote as "half toe in 8' plus or minus 4'."(There is definitely no minus sign in front of the 8' although there is for the 3.2 version on the same page, so I presume this is a printing error.)

Suffice to say, the inners on the front tyres scrubbed off after a few thousand miles. In those days there was no mention of resetting the alignment, just countless complaining posts on the official ARUK Cloverleaf website.

Eventually, suggestions to use a zero setting filtered through and the tyre wear issue was resolved.

My question is, as I need the alignment resetting after fitting new track rod ends what setting should I use. My Brera barely does 2,000 miles a year now so tyre wear isn't really an issue any more, whereas steering vagueness, especially when compared to my other cars, both fitted with the much maligned electric power steering systems, is very noticeable.

I don't want to go to the full -8' but am I being too simplistic in thinking -4' each wheel would be the obvious compromise?
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Think the settings have been updated, -2 or something.
Personally I wouldn't put 0 on for the same reason you state (vagueness) and have asked for -1 before


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Originally Posted by R50 MEO View Post
I've got a slightly different question over this alignment problem.

I have a 2.2 JTS Brera on standard 17" wheels. When I bought it new in 2006 it presumably came with the factory settings which my handbook quote as "half toe in 8' plus or minus 4'."(There is definitely no minus sign in front of the 8' although there is for the 3.2 version on the same page, so I presume this is a printing error.)

Suffice to say, the inners on the front tyres scrubbed off after a few thousand miles. In those days there was no mention of resetting the alignment, just countless complaining posts on the official ARUK Cloverleaf website.

Eventually, suggestions to use a zero setting filtered through and the tyre wear issue was resolved.

My question is, as I need the alignment resetting after fitting new track rod ends what setting should I use. My Brera barely does 2,000 miles a year now so tyre wear isn't really an issue any more, whereas steering vagueness, especially when compared to my other cars, both fitted with the much maligned electric power steering systems, is very noticeable.

I don't want to go to the full -8' but am I being too simplistic in thinking -4' each wheel would be the obvious compromise?
Yes, you could try -4 instead of the -2 which will go some way to reducing inner wear. I personally think Zero is a bit too far. As you move from -7 to lesser ToeOut you will feel some lesser agility but that's about it. Except if you already have a degree of inner shoulder wear you will feel more 'tramlining' on uneven surfaces. But that's just a factor of the remaining tread meeting the road surface well outside of the turning axis of the wheel.
By the way, mine is set to -2
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Originally Posted by dareknewry View Post
Hi, I have read almost the whole topic but I am confused. Just replaced two front tyres, bold on inner side. I got 4 wheels aligned - link below
it was ok before, they have not changed anything so I believe the problem with uneven tyre wear will continue.
To prevent that should I go to wheel alignment centre back and ask them to apply settings from page one ( -2' +/-5'per wheel)
I am confused if its real solution of my problem(camber) so if yous can have a look on my alignment print out from today. Thanks
Well, looking at your readout they haven't noted the problems.
First the rear axle is not even so the system is reporting a 'Thrust Angle'. This is simply a slight crab where the rear axle is not following the front. You compensate when driving by turning the steering in the opposite direction. I would want this sorted.
Then the front axle is reporting a difference between right and left. But this assumes they have locked the steering wheel to 'dead ahead' and I can see that this relies on the accuracy of the mechanic when he looks at the steering wheel before locking it (and assumes they did have a locking tool). Nevertheless, the total toe is -11' and I would want it at -4' (Minus 2' per side).
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Yes, you could try -4 instead of the -2 which will go some way to reducing inner wear. I personally think Zero is a bit too far. As you move from -7 to lesser ToeOut you will feel some lesser agility but that's about it. Except if you already have a degree of inner shoulder wear you will feel more 'tramlining' on uneven surfaces. But that's just a factor of the remaining tread meeting the road surface well outside of the turning axis of the wheel.
By the way, mine is set to -2
Thanks Old Engineer, I'll give -4' a try and see how it feels.
Even at that setting I doubt my tyres, which are new, will wear out before they need replacing through age.
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Hi, I got my tracking done today. Printed the pdf from post 1 and gave that to them. They set it to as close to that as they could get it.

I have attached it below. How does that look? Driving back I thought the car felt a bit odd but I don't think I can judge accurately yet due to me probably being oversensitive to it right now. Ill have to take it for a decent drive.
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Any opinions?
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Setting front toe to 0 can make the car feel a bit vague. I set mine to -2 minutes which is a reasonable compromise. All other settings are good.
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It definately takes some getting used to once set correctly as feels quite different but you soon realise it's more planted on the road and corners much better
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When set to 0 the car won't corner much better.......
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