Steering Alignment (with Correct Data in Post 1) - Page 11 - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoroBrera View Post
Hi, can you please PM me the correct settings for a Brera with 19" S alloys? I have read both the tyre wear and alignment threads and I'm confused.com! Only had the car 4 months but I've changed the rears and now the fronts are deformed on both inner edges and also need to changed even though they have 5mm of thread left on them!
The book settings for the rear toe & camber are fine.
It is the front that differs, set that to 0mm toe.

Available adjustments:
Front Toe
Rear Toe
Rear Camber.
David C is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
I'm going to get kwik fit to sort my tracking which is slightly out pulling to the right. I take it they'll adjust the toe & camber for me?

If so, In laymans terms exactly what settings am I asking them to change it to?

I have a 2.4 jtdm Lusso with 17s.

I know I am probably asking people to repeat information here so my apologies, but it's gone 2am, I've been through the thread & it's fried my brains!
SP36 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
Okay, I've had a re-read & am I correct in saying rear camber and toe is factory?

...and...

Front toe to 0?

...but...

The front camber is non adjustable?
SP36 is offline  
 
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,231
Correct.
(as in my post directly above yours...!)
David C is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
Okay, just checking as that is a Brera with 19's & I got the impression from the rest of the thread that it differs from model, alloy size & trim level. I warned that I may be asking for an answer that may have already been said. My understanding of camber & toe goes as far as Forza Motorsport & F12011 on my Xbox.
SP36 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
Right sat in kwik fit at the moment having the wheel alinment done (tracking needs doing anyway). I have spoken with a technician & I'm in catch 22 as they said they can set the toe to zero, but will have to note it on the print out and reciept & if the steering is still out they won't re do it free of charge as they can't guarentee it's not because of the neutral toe. I've got a few cars ahead of me so I don't know whether to get the toe set to zero or not.

The way he explained it to me makes sense, he said the camber effects the tyre wear not the toe as that is more for turn in. The camber then moves outwards as the car reaches speed putting a more even spread on the tyre surface but as identified in this thread, front camber can't be adjusted.

I can see the positive results had on this thread, however the main reason for me coming to kwikfit today is to stop it pulling and to aline the steering wheel. So until I can understand toe & camber more. I can't really put a stronger counter arguemenrt with somebody who does wheel alinment as part of their living.
SP36 is offline  
Status: It's goodby from me.....
AO Member
 
BoroBrera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 220
Had anyone got any experience of using either ETS or Mcewans in Derby as they both have the Hunter alignment system?
BoroBrera is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP36 View Post
The way he explained it to me makes sense, he said the camber effects the tyre wear not the toe as that is more for turn in.
The toe-out does improve turn-in, but at the expense of inner edge wear.
Even if you had zero front camber, the toe-out would still increase tyre wear because you are dragging the tyre slightly sideways when you are driving straight. With the -ve camber, that wear gets concentrated on the inner edge.

With zero front toe, the tyre is no longer being dragged slightly sideways when driving straight and no longer scrubs the inner edge away.

When done properly they can align the car with the steering straight and zero front toe.
Remember the rear adjustments. If the rear is not set properly, the car won't drive straight.

David C

Audi TT 3.2v6 DSG
xAlfa 156 Selespeed sp3 + Brembo conversion
Fiat Cinquecento 899cc
David C is offline  
Status: 159 2.4 20007 plate 19,500 DPF/EGR by Adie (AHM)
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wiltshire
Posts: 2,282
Images: 16
I thought that you would get that with Fwikfit. They just follow the guides without considering anything else. Try to find an independent or ring around using Yellow Pages and discus it on the phone before visiting the centres.

I had a body repair shop do my wife's 159 and one of the Formula One tyre and exhaust centres do my son's 147.

http://www.f1autocentres.co.uk/findacentre.php

I may have just been lucky with my local F1 centre as one of the fitters is an ex Alfa apprentice and I always ask for him.

Last edited by kandlbarrett; 07-10-12 at 18:05.
kandlbarrett is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
Well it wasn't done in the end. The one of the brackets they put around the rear wheels had broken so they could not do it.

I'll take it to a local indy tomorrow.

Just a quick question, does tracking also commonly include the rears as well? Or just the front?
SP36 is offline  
Status: 159 2.4 20007 plate 19,500 DPF/EGR by Adie (AHM)
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wiltshire
Posts: 2,282
Images: 16
Tell them you want a full 4 wheel alignment. If you ask for tracking you will get front wheels only. You should get, if you don't then ask for it, a before and after print out of the settings. Scan that and post here and the pointy headed guys will comment on how well they have done.

Note that they may run out of adjustment on the rear before getting factory settings. If that is the case make sure they set them equal. Tell them you will post on this thread if they get it spot on. You know it's tricky but they can do it. Stroking egos always works!!!!!
kandlbarrett is offline  
(Post Link) post #262 of 415 Old 08-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Posts: 2,056
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP36 View Post
Right sat in kwik fit at the moment having the wheel alinment done (tracking needs doing anyway). I have spoken with a technician & I'm in catch 22 as they said they can set the toe to zero, but will have to note it on the print out and reciept & if the steering is still out they won't re do it free of charge as they can't guarentee it's not because of the neutral toe. I've got a few cars ahead of me so I don't know whether to get the toe set to zero or not.

The way he explained it to me makes sense, he said the camber effects the tyre wear not the toe as that is more for turn in. The camber then moves outwards as the car reaches speed putting a more even spread on the tyre surface but as identified in this thread, front camber can't be adjusted.

I can see the positive results had on this thread, however the main reason for me coming to kwikfit today is to stop it pulling and to aline the steering wheel. So until I can understand toe & camber more. I can't really put a stronger counter arguemenrt with somebody who does wheel alinment as part of their living.
He might make a living at it but only because people put up with this type of rubbish. Find a more knowledgable company.
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 29

Member car:

159 2.4 SW

hi guys

I'm sorry but this is a long thread so just a quick question regarding the alignment. I'm planing on having my car lowered with the Eibach springs/dampers and after that procedure it has to be aligned (if you ask me). So the best settings are...

Front: Toe/Camber??
Back: Toe/Camber??

Thx in advance.
Medno84 is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medno84 View Post
hi guys

I'm sorry but this is a long thread so just a quick question regarding the alignment. I'm planing on having my car lowered with the Eibach springs/dampers and after that procedure it has to be aligned (if you ask me). So the best settings are...

Front: Toe/Camber??
Back: Toe/Camber??

Thx in advance.
:
Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
The book settings for the rear toe & camber are fine.
It is the front that differs, set that to 0mm toe.


Available adjustments:
Front Toe
Rear Toe
Rear Camber.
David C is offline  
Status: It's goodby from me.....
AO Member
 
BoroBrera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 220
Well had my car 4 wheel aligned today on a Hunter. Rear wasn't too bad, +24' but fronts where set to -08', now set to Zero! Only problem now is that the steering wheel is misaligned so back on Monday to sort. This was set up on 19" S Alloys and vredestein's!
BoroBrera is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoroBrera View Post
Well had my car 4 wheel aligned today on a Hunter. Rear wasn't too bad, +24' but fronts where set to -08', now set to Zero! Only problem now is that the steering wheel is misaligned so back on Monday to sort. This was set up on 19" S Alloys and vredestein's!
I had my tracking looked at the other day. It took 5 attempts & I'm still not 100% sure its right.
SP36 is offline  
(Post Link) post #267 of 415 Old 12-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Posts: 2,056
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoroBrera View Post
Well had my car 4 wheel aligned today on a Hunter. Rear wasn't too bad, +24' but fronts where set to -08', now set to Zero! Only problem now is that the steering wheel is misaligned so back on Monday to sort. This was set up on 19" S Alloys and vredestein's!
This is just poor workmanship! The very first thing they should do is apply a cradle to lock the steering wheel in the straight ahead position. Some lazy workers will try to set the alignment without dealing with the steering wheel in the hope that they don't have to adjust anything.
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: 159 2.4 20007 plate 19,500 DPF/EGR by Adie (AHM)
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wiltshire
Posts: 2,282
Images: 16
SP36: if you had 4 wheel alignment done then you should have had a print out of before and after settings. If you did scan and post it here. If you didn't that is unusual - I don't know if the info is stored in the machines or if they can supply one after the event.
kandlbarrett is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Engineer View Post
This is just poor workmanship! The very first thing they should do is apply a cradle to lock the steering wheel in the straight ahead position. Some lazy workers will try to set the alignment without dealing with the steering wheel in the hope that they don't have to adjust anything.
I know my guys did it & it still took them 5 attempts. In the end they had to keep adjusting the steering and then make a further adjustment. Don't know why...




Quote:
Originally Posted by kandlbarrett View Post
SP36: if you had 4 wheel alignment done then you should have had a print out of before and after settings. If you did scan and post it here. If you didn't that is unusual - I don't know if the info is stored in the machines or if they can supply one after the event.
I've just had front tracking done and the garage didn't do all 4. Will get a 4 wheel alignment done soon to save the new tyres, but they were expensive enough for this month.
SP36 is offline  
Status: It's goodby from me.....
AO Member
 
BoroBrera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 220
I certainly got a before and after print out when I had mine done, I will post results on here once I work out how to sort it on iPad!
BoroBrera is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
What would be the effects of your rear wheels being out of line aside from obvious tyre wear? Would it still push the car to one side like the fronts would pull to one side?

After 5 attempts at the tracking it still seems out. I took a trip down the M5 today and I had to keep making small adjustments to keep the car in a straight line or keep the steering wheel slightly right to stop it going off to the left. I wouldn't say it is pulling, but it seems like it was baring left a lot. However, around after the 5th attempt (3 days ago) it seemed fine until I got on the motorway.

I know I should get a 4 wheel alignment & I will as I had 4 new tyres fitted yesterday. However I am half way to Cornwall, continuing tomorrow, so I can't until I get back really.

I just don't know whether to get the national tyres where I am tomorrow to take a look as I have a 30 day guarentee. But if the Birmingham branch couldn't sort it, I am wondering if it is a something else and a waste of valuable holiday time? (Mrs won't be impressed!)

I haven't checked tyre pressures as they are new yesterday & one would assume the the fitters put the correct air pressures in. However, when I had the tracking done, I had the old tyres on that were losing air pressure.

I'm just concerned for my brand new tyres on this 500 mile round trip!
SP36 is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP36 View Post
I haven't checked tyre pressures as they are new yesterday & one would assume the the fitters put the correct air pressures in.
Don't assume anything...
David C is offline  
(Post Link) post #273 of 415 Old 15-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Posts: 2,056
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP36 View Post
What would be the effects of your rear wheels being out of line aside from obvious tyre wear? Would it still push the car to one side like the fronts would pull to one side?
If your rears are out of line you will have a pull to one side. Best to start waving your hands around to help with this next description.

Imagine your near side rear wheel has taken a hit and is now pointing outwards (hold your left hand cranked outwards while your right hand is pointing straight). The car will compensate by tracking the whole rear leftwards (move hands to the left while equalising the angle). Now the whole car is pointing to the right so if you don't want to go right you will have to put on some left lock to go down the road. The fronts of course will want to self centre back to their straight ahead.
Old Engineer is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Engineer View Post
If your rears are out of line you will have a pull to one side. Best to start waving your hands around to help with this next description.

Imagine your near side rear wheel has taken a hit and is now pointing outwards (hold your left hand cranked outwards while your right hand is pointing straight). The car will compensate by tracking the whole rear leftwards (move hands to the left while equalising the angle). Now the whole car is pointing to the right so if you don't want to go right you will have to put on some left lock to go down the road. The fronts of course will want to self centre back to their straight ahead.
Okay, everyone was looking at me weird but I think I got it. Haha, four wheel alignment it is when I get back from Cornwall.

Would I only notice this at speed? Because driving 30 / 40mph around urban roads it doesn't seem to pull. On the Motorway it does!
SP36 is offline  
(Post Link) post #275 of 415 Old 16-10-12 Thread Starter
Status: Still engineering
AO Silver Member
 
Old Engineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Esher
County: Surrey
Posts: 2,056
Images: 12
Depends if the car is also leaning because of the camber of the road. Local roads are more likely to have the camber but we mostly don't recognise it because it's very unusual to find an arrow straight local road that mimics the motorway.
Old Engineer is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 159, Brera & 946 Spider

Tags
alignment , camber , caster , correct , data , post , steering , wheel

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome