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Clutch, remap, I will smash 159 with a hammer...

5K views 17 replies 9 participants last post by  master200 
#1 ·
Hello everyone,

I have 2009. Alfa 159, 1.9 JTDm 150hp. This is the short history of my problem:

- Bought the car with 100 000km in 2013.
- January 2014. 130 000km remapped 170hp & 390nm (the numbers may be wrong)
- January 2015. 150 000km factory clutch started to slip; bought the new one - Valeo (DMF, the whole clutch with with pressure bearing)
- January 2016. 160 000km clutch slipping again, bought the new one, Valeo again (without DMF and pressure bearing this time), and ordered a new map, something like 170hp and 360nm
- January 2017. 175 000km clutch start to slip again

Now I have 5 different maps, you can see in this photo fuel quantity for all of them. Only the green one 175hp/2 does not slip, all other slip in 5th and 6th gear, while the one 180hp slips in 4th gear as well.
Many tuners told me that stock Valeo clutch will hold 380nm, and that they newer saw something similar happening, but this clearly shows that everything beyond 335nm is just too much for this clutch. Maybe not when it is new, but after only 10 000km the problem arises.
Slipping is always from 2000rpm to 23000rpm, and then at 2500rpm it starts to grip and hold to the 4000rpm.

My driving style is very, very, VERY soft. I never put the pedal down until the engine is below 2300rpm, and I never do it hard, but slow and gradually.
98% of the time I am at low speeds, and around 2000rpm, but only sometime I speed up and use the whole torque and power. I think it is impossible that I ruined my clutch, except I can brake it by being to soft with it.
My car is in very good condition, my mechanic is also very professional and capable, at the same time it is hard to believe that 3 clutches are not good or installed correctly.

***

So my question is about Valeo stock clutch, is it really that bad so it can not bear anything more than 15nm, or I need to look somewhere else for the problem? The fact that 120hp and 150hp uses the same clutch, but 2.0 170hp different one says enough about how much torque this clutch can take.
Also, all problems started in January, with very cold weather, does that have something to do with my problem?
At the end, would you suggest some aftermarket clutch, and is there anything that will work 100% with remapped engine?
 

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#2 ·
I don't say it is the same problem but.
My old 2.4 had a slipping clutch as well. But if you molested it enough (with proper cool down periods as well) it started to grip. I noticed this on a trip to the Nürburgring where it out of the blue stopped slipping. And after some weeks of normal driving begun to slip again.
So there was definately something on the clutch that made it slip. Maybe oil from somewhere, a seal or who knows.

Maybe your problem is the same. It isn't the clutch. It is something on the clutch
 
#6 ·
I think so. :)

Tonight I loaded that crazy 180hp 380nm map and tried it again, of course the clutch slipped in 4th, 5th and 6th even beyond 3000rpm.
Then I pulled handbrake and warmed the clutch by lifting the foot few times, and tried again. After warming the clutch up it almost does not slip anymore.
The more I abuse it the more grip it has.
 
#8 ·
I could drive like it is stolen, but I am not feeling comfortable doing that all the time, when I am driving kids to the school, or driving through the city.
This is the third clutch with the same symptoms, so I think it is just the way it is made. Also, the fact that it does not slip under any condition on stock map is telling enough about remap and stock clutch.

I was hoping that someone here would tell me the opposite, but it looks clear now. I could drive stock map during winter months, and something more powerful during summer, but that would be too complicated...
 
#10 ·
Wow! I can't believe that i am reading this post. Exact the same problem.
Alfa 159 1.9 JTDm 150hp. The only thing is that i do not have it remapped. I have had the DPF filter removed and got a new map for that. As I saw on YouTube the removal of DPF can get you an increase in hp. 10-18 hp. I saw a few Dyno videos before and after DPF removal on several cars.

back to the problem: after the DPF removal everything was just fine for about 1 year and 10k km. The car had 167.000km when I bought it and 180k when I had the DPF removed. At 187k the clutch started to slip. I said ok that is normal.

188k bought new flywheel OEM (valeo in box) OEM clutch (also valeo in box) and throwout bearing (full metal)

198k one year later the clutch is slipping again!!!! Also noticed that in December. I thought maybe there was oil leaking inside. Went to service yesterday. Opened it but there is no oil leak. And the flywheel clutch and bearing are as new! They said: "everything seems to be new". I was "yesss after just 1 year everything IS new!

I went to a shop to order again the parts. But I wanted to replace Valeo with Sachs. Ordered Sachs and today has arrived. SURPRISE!!! In the Sachs box is the exact same Valeo part that is now on the car. The codes are the same, color everything! The only difference is that near Valeo stamp is also an Sachs stamp. Same pressure plate same clutch disc. So I refused it as it was more expensive than an original kit that came with the exact same 2 pieces. I ordered again the original kit and will be replaced on Monday. I also ordered a Luk bearing but I got a plastic one and now I don't know if it is a good ideea to change the metal one with this one. I thought that maybe was the bearing the problem. Wanted all to be new.

If it will slip again after 10k I sell the car! :ranting:

In mine the 4th gear was the worse. The rev indicator was jumping from 2000 to 2500 then from 2700 to 3000 and so on. As it is trying to grab on to the flywheel. 1st 2nd and 3rd were ok. No slip. 5th and 6th suffered to from the slipping but not so bad as the 4th.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the info on the clutch and flywheel kits. Good to know.

Conserning contamination on the clutch. How does the surfaces feel? When cleaned off with brake cleaner. Does that change how it feels? (compare with brake disk and pads)

There must be a reason other than "magic" and "no reason"'
 
#13 ·
The clutch that i had removed looks very good. I will take some pictures. There is very little worn on the clutch disk but other than that everything is like new. I don't know what is the reason why is slipping. I will try to protect the new kit. And i am also searching for future solutions. Maybe a ceramic kit.
 
#17 ·
Must admit I didn't read much beyond the first post or two.

It looks like you had no problems until the OE clutch failed, after a remap. (which was a fair few miles later so not the cause of it failing, more likely just age)

The you had issues after replacing clutch, flywheel, release bearing.

so you replaced clutch again (without replacing flywheel or release bearing)

You tried a few different remaps to get different powers etc but still had issues (the power remaps were similar to what other people had with no problems and your garage (or remapper) has not seen these issues before)

The only thing that hasn't been changed whilst the problems exist are the flywheel and the release bearing.

get them changed......

Then report back.

Simple.

Axe....
 
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