M32 Gearbox Advice - Updated endcasing - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 26 Old 04-01-17 Thread Starter
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M32 Gearbox Advice - Updated endcasing

Hi all,

This is my first post so first of all I would like to say hello. I recently purchased an Alfa 159 2.2 JTS TI and I'm LOVING it. One slight problem that wasnt apparent at the time is the gearbox is showing some of the tell-tale signs that its on the way out.
I have found a transmission specialist who will repair it and they also offer to fit the newer end casing which apparenly allows better oil flow to the bearings and allows bigger bearings to be fitted.
Has anyone here had any experience with this modification? I'm particularly curious as to whether it fixes the known problems this gearbox seems to suffer from.
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(Post Link) post #2 of 26 Old 04-01-17 Thread Starter
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I should add I have been quoted the below costs. They give a best and worst case scenario (highest/ lowest price) Please let me know if you think they're about right. I decided I'll probably get the clutch and dmf done too as the car is at 92k miles now.

1. Full bearing rebuild with updated end case/ bigger bearings, clutch replacement and dmf replacement: £1643.60

2. Recon gearbox with updated end case/ bigger bearings, clutch replacement and dmf replacement: £1943.60
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Cant comment on the bigger bearing mod as I haven't had that done,

But the higher price you have been quoted is very similar to what I paid for mine to be repaired a few years ago after it smashed a few cogs to pieces (my work included everything your quote does but it was standard parts not uprated)

dont know if that helps?

Axe
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(Post Link) post #4 of 26 Old 04-01-17 Thread Starter
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Hi Axe, that is good to know, thank you. Did you get a reconditioned gearbox or did they replace the broken parts in yours?
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Wrong thread....
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I would understand change of clutch and DMF in diesel at this mileage, but not in 2.2JTS (unless previous owner in some way abused it).
In terms of gearbox updates, up to you to spend a fortune, but I wouldn't do that much.

I was driving with noisy bearing for 90kkm/5years before I had sorted it out, I only replaced oil (the old one was full of metallic micro-fractions according to mechanics) and added some nano-ceramics additive, and I believe it completely stopped progress on the issue, so it was possible to do that 90kkm (or even more, there were no signs of getting worse etc, and oil was clean after years). But finally I decided to sort it out. The cost of 6 timken bearings was ~EUR130, 3L of Tutela oil (I put 2.8L as a lot of people recommend for M32 0.5L extra for better lubrification) EUR35, labour (it was cheap, as one of polish forum member mechanics did the work for me and didn't charged me at full rate, rather half) EUR120. I understand that you need to go with UK labour rates and pay to garage not somebody who charges you at lower rate, but still maybe way lower money spend will be equally good or at least good enough to keep your gearbox happy for another 100k miles? Spending around EUR2000 just for gearbox related things like clutch&DMF (which may not need any replace), seems not best spend money to me. Probably there are a few other things you could improve/add to your car today (like stereo, or maybe leather seats refurbishing etc) or in future (repairs? new tires?) for that money to keep your car in mint condition.
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(Post Link) post #7 of 26 Old 05-01-17 Thread Starter
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I see your point and I know it's expensive. From what I've read though at this age if the gearbox is being taken out then it's worth getting clutch and dmf done too, no? The other option is they replace the bearings with the gearbox still on the car which is about £650. £150 of that is for the end casing and bigger bearings so for 150 i might as well have them do it. They said the price could go up depending on the condition of the other components.
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i doubt clutch and dmf needs change in 2.2jts after 90kmiles,of course depends how previous user drove the car, if he abused it with rapid starts/gear changes, or didnt use clutch properly (burn it). if i were you, i would wait with clutch/dmf change decission for mechanic inspection once you have all out.
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Courtney sport have a page with a few more details on the newer end cases, might help:

http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/blog/tag/new-endcase/
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(Post Link) post #10 of 26 Old 05-01-17 Thread Starter
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Hi Giblets, thanks for posting that. I think I'll definitely go with the updated endcase.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusppetti View Post
Hi Axe, that is good to know, thank you. Did you get a reconditioned gearbox or did they replace the broken parts in yours?
They reconditioned my own box, Replaced bearings and smashed cogs. (it went off to a local gearbox specialist)

Axe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusppetti View Post
I should add I have been quoted the below costs. They give a best and worst case scenario (highest/ lowest price) Please let me know if you think they're about right. I decided I'll probably get the clutch and dmf done too as the car is at 92k miles now.

1. Full bearing rebuild with updated end case/ bigger bearings, clutch replacement and dmf replacement: £1643.60

2. Recon gearbox with updated end case/ bigger bearings, clutch replacement and dmf replacement: £1943.60
As a guide regarding price I recently had gearbox rebuild, replacement bearings etc for ~£760 inc VAT.
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(Post Link) post #13 of 26 Old 11-01-17 Thread Starter
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Thanks for all your input everyone. I've decided to go ahead with the gearbox fix with the newer end casing and bearings. I'll probably end up getting the clutch and flywheel done too if this turns into a gearbox out job. The car is going to them tomorrow and with luck should be ready for collection Friday/ Saturday. I'll keep you updated on what happens.
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Hi Gusppetti,

Just wondered how you got on with the gearbox?


Stephen
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Oh you lucky *******s. I had the dreaded gearbox issue with my M32. Had to have the entire gearbox replaced, since none of the garages i spoke to would rebuild it. One of them even stated that they stopped rebuilding them since "it'll be just as bad in half a year again". I finally bit the bullet since i need the car to get to and from work. What did it cost me? Well, including a new thrust bearing, the grand total was £4012! And that was the lowest offer i got!

£4012!
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Originally Posted by Ipanemabraun View Post
Oh you lucky *******s. I had the dreaded gearbox issue with my M32. Had to have the entire gearbox replaced, since none of the garages i spoke to would rebuild it. One of them even stated that they stopped rebuilding them since "it'll be just as bad in half a year again". I finally bit the bullet since i need the car to get to and from work. What did it cost me? Well, including a new thrust bearing, the grand total was £4012! And that was the lowest offer i got!

£4012!
Absolutely unbelievable, what a rip-off.
A main Alfa dealer by any chance?
The same job in the UK is about £1.5k at a transmission specialist.
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Sorry guys, forgot to report back. I had the gearbox rebuilt, had the modified encasing and bigger bearings fitted, they said the rest of the gearbox was ok so had that done and had the clutch and flywheel replaced. Gearbox feels totally different now, they seem to have done a great job. Very happy overall. It cost me £1670 in the end for everything.
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Hi epsomix Can you yell me the numbers of the replcement timkin bearings please.
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Originally Posted by gibot123 View Post
Hi epsomix Can you yell me the numbers of the replcement timkin bearings please.
Have a look here ...
Clutch and gearbox related parts for the Alfa Romeo GT 1.9 16V models. - Autolusso New Alfa Romeo Parts
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Hi epsomix Can you yell me the numbers of the replcement timkin bearings please.
Got all the numbers down, all those bearings shouldn't cost you more than £50-£60 all in inc vat
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Thankyou speak to you soon
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Thankyou speak to you soon
You might even get a cheap Quaife diff if you speak nicely to them
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusppetti View Post
Sorry guys, forgot to report back. I had the gearbox rebuilt, had the modified encasing and bigger bearings fitted, they said the rest of the gearbox was ok so had that done and had the clutch and flywheel replaced. Gearbox feels totally different now, they seem to have done a great job. Very happy overall. It cost me £1670 in the end for everything.
Thanks Gusppetti, it's good to know this modification to the box is available for the 159

Out of curiosity and I apologise if this has been asked before, but is the modified casing a replacement for the existing casing, or is it a modification to the existing casing?

I ask, as this updated casing and bearing configuration was supplied solely to the Vauxhall range and there is a post in the following thread that suggests that a Vauxhall variant of the M32 box would not fit on the Alfa, as it is missing the bolt holes for the rear engine mount.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/newre...ply&p=14417825

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autolusso View Post
Yes you have an M32 but there are many different versions of the M32, one from a Astra etc will not fit as they are missing the bolt holes the 159 needs for it rear engine mount
Assuming the casing a a replacement to the existing, is this new casing designed for a Vauxhall, or is it specific to the 159 with all of the correct bolt holes?


Thanks,

Stephen
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Originally Posted by fernsie View Post
Thanks Gusppetti, it's good to know this modification to the box is available for the 159

Out of curiosity and I apologise if this has been asked before, but is the modified casing a replacement for the existing casing, or is it a modification to the existing casing?

I ask, as this updated casing and bearing configuration was supplied solely to the Vauxhall range and there is a post in the following thread that suggests that a Vauxhall variant of the M32 box would not fit on the Alfa, as it is missing the bolt holes for the rear engine mount.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/newre...ply&p=14417825



Assuming the casing a a replacement to the existing, is this new casing designed for a Vauxhall, or is it specific to the 159 with all of the correct bolt holes?


Thanks,

Stephen
The Vauxhall does have different bolt holes to the Alfa but this is only on the diff casing not the end casing

Ned
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I was looking at this thread and just wondered if this is a new casing (casting) or if it is a original new casing but remachined. With bigger fittings for the bearings and reworked oil channels.
If so it maybe possible for your old casing to be modified.
As usual just curious ..
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