Just a slight distraction from the subject.https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...vYULKGWWpdD_mL6Ug&sig2=no27XbhwJvE3qNyYmzDAkg Is anyone aware of or have experience of these "Stiff Ring" kits for the 159? I have to replace my front sub frame so whilst checking it out, I fell over these. Also is the Q4 Brera front sub frame the same animal as for the 159 Q4 saloon?:scratchchin:
There's a very old thread somewhere on here about the alignment issue that some Brera's and 159's had from the factory, uneven tire wear on outer or inner front tires.
Basically the thread went on to explain that an alignment centre in Manchester is where the AO member took his car to see if he could solve his problems with uneven wear.
He said the alingment centre made a suggestion to loosen the subframe bolts and adjust it's position in order to fix his problem with the camber angle ( which is none adjustable via top mounts from under the bonnet, or the upper arms from the factory ). He went on to state this took several attempts to do in order to get the camber angle correct, but it was very possible to do the camber angle that way without the need to powerflex. Long story, but those bolts do have benefits to the steering and alignment issues these cars can have. I'm interested on a set and price
Further to your above, pretty sharp memory - good on yah! However, lateral forces and side impacts against the curb could once again put the sub frame out of true. I also acknowledge, what is ignored in the Stiff Ring manufacturers blurb - or at least I haven't seen it - is manufacturing tolerances of the chassis could in itself be cause for lack of alignment. It does not need to be much. I will find this out when I get mine fitted. Chassis damage is another. I was intrigued by your observation that the camber setting could be achieved by re-adjusting the position of the sub frame with respect to the chassis because of the oversize fixing holes, without the need for polys.
So, I think you will guess where I am coming from. When I get my mitts on a set, I will look to having a local engineering shop make slip rings which are "Dual Concentric". Rotating the Slip Ring can the restore alignment by virtue of the off-set of the bolt hole W.R.T. the Slip Ring Body. Once set, It will remain thus permanently and that is one more issue taken out of the equation.
When fitting the sub frame, you have to use the two special
alignment holes for correct fitment and it's not important if
the bolt holes do or don't align.
I accept what you say. However, that does not mean the sub frame will remain in situ ad infinitum. Which is the whole point of these devices, to ensure they do. Where sections have "latitude" because of the oversize holes, they could shift. Lateral movement is possible due to cornering stresses or even side impact on a curb. But again I say. It is for others to judge the merit of these devices.As my sub frame is coming of, I'll look to getting some fitted.
The subframe has over-sized holes to allow fine tuning of subframe location relative to the body to ensure suspension geometry can be set correctly. If you lock the subframe to the location of the captive nuts in the body with these devices then you will probably never be able to get the suspension geometry right, unless your Alfa was built 100% perfectly - which history tells us is very doubtful, if not impossible. These rings will probably cause you more trouble than they are worth and I doubt you will be able to fit all of them without stripping a thread or two. If the subframe has moved relative to the body then there is a much bigger problem to worry about.
Fair comment, I can see that. But the benefits of stiffening up the fixings has to be a positive thing, If as you say the correct location can be achieved
Fair comment, I can see that. But the benefits of stiffening up the fixings has to be a positive thing, If as you say the correct location can be achieved
Makes some sense but the device would need to have an offset centre bore to allow proper alignment. Changing from a friction faying surface to a shear connection will also need a closer look at the bolt type and captive nut strength.
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