159 SW Q4 new home needed - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Sizewell, mine sounds very much like a V6. I have never seen less than 19mpg even on a 2,000ft high 45 minute twisty mountain drive at high revs using just 3rd & 4th gear constant.
Sounds as good as a Busso after 3500rpms, there's not 1 person on here that has bought a V6 Brera & started a thread without talking about how addictive the sound is. I would suggest a remap, an exhaust change, also swap the paper airfilter element for something better than OEM
Chains, tensioners, sprockets, front pulley, K&N filter, Trailing arms bushes all done. All Differential bushes & discs all round changed. Tracking not touched as new P zero's still look new at 8000 miles. On a long run consumption now settling out at 28 mpg and not especially trying to achieve it. However, when I want a bit of "Fun", that's when it comes unstuck. Can't believe these camshafts can advance/retard 50 degrees? I can understand it on a light, low geared, high revving engine like a Ferrari but not on a beast such as the Q4. Seems to me, the only thing stopping this engine blowing itself to bits is the anti-knock devices. So what is the point of having such huge advance/retard ranges when it gets so far out of kilter that the anti-knock ensures the ECU just claws back the timing. Thats why when I lift, the "Pinking" is reduced and the ECU then applies timing more suited to the engines inertia - drag if you like. Timing; such that this engine has, is fine when there is no load on it, but completely unsuited to 1700 kilos~ Just got to touch the throttle lightly at 2300 to 2700 RPM and it morphs into a TVR V8. I hate it. Everything else about the car I love to bits. But this is just torture.
Finally got all my bits; Transducers, new modified Oil Cooler/Filter Unit, stainless pipework, non return/check valves and ready to go next week - been waiting for ages. Even had time to pick up a spare Brera engine; 46,000 I was told, because this wonderful piece of Alfa engineering suffered chain failure??? Got it cheap so wasn't to painful and broke the monotony of waiting to get all my bits done by people who are incredibly good at what they do. Trouble is there aren't enough in Britain so they are always in demand. Got all my test equipment together so should be able to take some figures and a friendly chap - local engineer - lent me a very nice programmable oil pressure switch - see if this is of any use to you? You bet.
I do believe this 3.2 is capable of being a great engine but not in it's standard guise. So we will see if indeed it can be improved upon. And I believe it can. And if it can't, there will be another Q4 for sale; and a lot of bits and bob's from an abandoned project. Convinced it can work better though.

Would be nice to know where I can get some re-mapping done?
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Sizewell, I got mine done at Alfatune as I trust what Gus can do. But you can get remaps done just about anywhere these days.
The link above is a guy who does some seriously good tuning for GM engines, or just about any engine, he's based in Oz look at what he has done on his FB-page you could message him to find out what upgrades he can do as these engines are widely available in Oz
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https://m.facebook.com/Tonyz-Garage-352070834902830/


Sizewell, I got mine done at Alfatune as I trust what Gus can do. But you can get remaps done just about anywhere these days.
The link above is a guy who does some seriously good tuning for GM engines, or just about any engine, he's based in Oz look at what he has done on his FB-page you could message him to find out what upgrades he can do as these engines are widely available in Oz
Clay19, Thanks for this. I will check it out as soon as I get the current work out of the way. Just curious but, can one get different ratios for the F 40 gear box? Don't care about the 155 MPH top speed. But I would like to shift the revs away from 2500-ish when cruising. Generally lighten the load on the engine at the expense of higher revs I know, but just a thought. Indeed, are 5th & 6th not just a little too tall?
K.R.
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In my view the gearbox is rubbish. It maybe strong, but the ratios are odd.
I tend to get from 1st-2nd as quick as I can ( no-more than 3,500rpms in 1st ) I've also found your seating position helps a smoother Change when engaging from 1st-2nd gear. I only push the clutch halfway down & not to the floor. I try to avoid using 5th & 6th gear, they seem sluggish. Besides if your travelling on the motorway in 4th the acceleration response is cleaner and the sound of the quad cams always dominates the experience which I prefer, keeps the injectors clean too. You can buy a short shift linkage for this F40 box too which may make the throws much more pleasurable to drive

Last edited by Clay19; 28-08-16 at 14:14.
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Found this for you sizewell

The F40 has a three-axis design, with first, second, fifth, and sixth gears on an output shaft behind and below the input shaft, and third and fourth gears are on an output shaft in front of and above the input shaft. Both output shaft pinions drive a helical gear with a conventional differential. The clutch is mounted on a dual-mass flywheel to dampen vibrations on whichever output shaft is idle depending upon which gear is selected.

Triple-cone synchronizers are used on 1st and 2nd gears. These synchronizers have three friction surfaces, which increase their ability to transfer the flow of torque more smoothly from one gear to another. Synchronizers act as clutches to speed up or slow down the gearsets that are being shifted to, and greater friction area results in easier shifting for the driver. The 3rd, 4th, and reverse synchronizers are double-cone, while the 5th and 6th gear synchronizers are single-cone. All of the friction surfaces on the Synchronizer rings are sintered bronze. The ratios in the 6-speed are widely spaced for versatile performance and efficiency.

To adapt the F40 to North American applications and maximize performance, 3rd through 6th gears have been changed to higher-ratio gears starting in 2007 model year. The ratio for 3rd gear is now 1.37:1, and the ratio for 4th gear is no longer an overdrive, with a new ratio of 1.05:1. The 5th gear ratio is 0.85:1 and the 6th gear ratio is 0.71:1.

The addition of a ball-and-spring-type detent on the shift sleeve and detents on the shift rail assists the driver in shifting quicker. The detent raises the force required to move the shift lever which prevents excess movement of the shifter by the driver, and reduces the chance of double bump. Tension between the shift sleeve and the shift rail also prevents the sleeve from vibrating while in gear.

The F40 is cast in aluminum, and weighs 124 pounds (56.2 kg). It has been certified for up to 295 ft-lb ( 400 Nm) of engine torque.

The F40 MT2/MU9 uses a Castrol Burmah (BOT 0063) manual transmission fluid, or GM 88862472 gear oil. This gear oil is identified in GM documentation as a synthetic 75W-85 GL-4. No maintenance is required for normal operation.
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Found this for you sizewell

The F40 has a three-axis design, with first, second, fifth, and sixth gears on an output shaft behind and below the input shaft, and third and fourth gears are on an output shaft in front of and above the input shaft. Both output shaft pinions drive a helical gear with a conventional differential. The clutch is mounted on a dual-mass flywheel to dampen vibrations on whichever output shaft is idle depending upon which gear is selected.

Triple-cone synchronizers are used on 1st and 2nd gears. These synchronizers have three friction surfaces, which increase their ability to transfer the flow of torque more smoothly from one gear to another. Synchronizers act as clutches to speed up or slow down the gearsets that are being shifted to, and greater friction area results in easier shifting for the driver. The 3rd, 4th, and reverse synchronizers are double-cone, while the 5th and 6th gear synchronizers are single-cone. All of the friction surfaces on the Synchronizer rings are sintered bronze. The ratios in the 6-speed are widely spaced for versatile performance and efficiency.

To adapt the F40 to North American applications and maximize performance, 3rd through 6th gears have been changed to higher-ratio gears starting in 2007 model year. The ratio for 3rd gear is now 1.37:1, and the ratio for 4th gear is no longer an overdrive, with a new ratio of 1.05:1. The 5th gear ratio is 0.85:1 and the 6th gear ratio is 0.71:1.

The addition of a ball-and-spring-type detent on the shift sleeve and detents on the shift rail assists the driver in shifting quicker. The detent raises the force required to move the shift lever which prevents excess movement of the shifter by the driver, and reduces the chance of double bump. Tension between the shift sleeve and the shift rail also prevents the sleeve from vibrating while in gear.

The F40 is cast in aluminum, and weighs 124 pounds (56.2 kg). It has been certified for up to 295 ft-lb ( 400 Nm) of engine torque.

The F40 MT2/MU9 uses a Castrol Burmah (BOT 0063) manual transmission fluid, or GM 88862472 gear oil. This gear oil is identified in GM documentation as a synthetic 75W-85 GL-4. No maintenance is required for normal operation.
Clay19
Thanks again. It seems the ratios are pretty similar ~ ish up to sixth, according to my E-disc info with the European variant given as 0.74:1. I must do some more checks. But you are right about third and fourth; the engine flexibility is so much more obvious. And it will help oil maintain healthy oil pressure by avoiding such tall gearing at low revs in fifth or sixth. So I think I will stay away from them for anything under seventy for fifth and; u-hum, never use sixth unless in foreign parts!
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So I think I will stay away from them for anything under seventy for fifth and; u-hum, never use sixth unless in foreign parts!
Good luck with the fuel economy
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Good luck with the fuel economy
Just being politically correct insofar as I never exceed the speed limit! Honest!
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I assume your car has the 2006 sizewell? The MT2 F40 type?


MT2 (2006) MU9 (2007+)
1st 3.77 3.92
2nd 2.04 2.04
3rd 1.32 1.37
4th .95 1.05
5th .76 .85
6th .62 .71
Final Drive 3.545 3.762

Last edited by Clay19; 30-08-16 at 17:27.
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I assume your car has the 2006 sizewell? The MT2 F40 type?


MT2 (2006) MU9 (2007+)
1st 3.77 3.92
2nd 2.04 2.04
3rd 1.32 1.37
4th .95 1.05
5th .76 .85
6th .62 .71
Final Drive 3.545 3.762
Mine is a 2006 model but unsure of the gearbox data. Where can I find the ID to confirm one way or the other please?
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I should image that yours has the MT2 type F40 as the introduction of the update wasn't until 2007/8. I assume the data should be on your bell housing what type of box you have
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I should image that yours has the MT2 type F40 as the introduction of the update wasn't until 2007/8. I assume the data should be on your bell housing what type of box you have
I popped into my local Friendly GM dealer an got the specs for the Insignia 2.8 V.R. Also my e-disc for 2006 onwards shows the type to be F40-6 which co-relates to the GM F40-6 (MK6) the ratios are identical with the exception of reverse. The Q4 being 3.749:1 as opposed to 3.750:1 for the Insignia so essentially they are the same. However, the F40-MR6 is a lot different in ratios. 3rd. is 1.321:1 - Q4 1.365:1, 4th 0.954:1 - Q4 1.048:1, 5th 0.755:1 - Q4 0.846:1 and 6th 0.623:1 - Q4 0.74:1. So does this follow what you said earlier about the gears being much taller for the American market? It is probably only coincidental that the 2.2 JTS sixth gear is nominally the same ratio as the Q4's 5th.???? And 5th gear on the Q4 seems to be about right for an overdrive, if I can call it that.
Either way sixth is very tall. Just kicking things about but 80 mph in sixth is low rpm. Load on engine changes dramatically with terrain so correspondingly large swings in timing characteristics. Large swings in VVT at low revs/low oil pressure??? Just minor changes on the throttle in sixth produces a huge drop in the indicated MPG. Every time I look at the problem, from different angles it still brings me back to poor oil flow distribution between front and rear bank. Which is the main reason I call this engine a nightmare. It should be a 300 BHP or more engine considering how much work has been done to the cylinder heads and the JTS system. Just want to get my mods kicked off.
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They're always redeveloping this engine sizewell, the latest version which is similar to ours has a 3.0 V6 Twin-Turbos



Starting with 2016 Cadillac Models a new generation of High Feature V6s were developed.[18] These new engines have redesigned block architectures with bore centers increased from 103 mm (4.055 in) on prior HFV6 engines to 106 mm (4.173 in) and a redesigned cooling system to target the hottest areas while also facilitating faster warm-up. They also incorporate engine start-stop technology, cylinder-deactivation, 2-stage oil pumps, and updated variable valve timing featuring intermediate park technology for late-intake valve closure. Both engines will debut in the 2016 Cadillac CT6.[19]

3.0 L Edit
LGW Edit
Bore and stroke of 86 mm (3.386 in) and 85.8 mm (3.378 in) are used, along with a 9.8:1 compression ratio and twin turbos with titanium-aluminide turbine wheels. Maximum engine speed is 6500 RPM. Premium unleaded fuel is required.

Applications:

Year(s) Model Power Torque Dyno Chart
2016 Cadillac CT6
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