159 JTD Does Not work at first start - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 14 Old 17-08-16 Thread Starter
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159 JTD Does Not work at first start

Hi,,,

159 JTDm, manuel.

If I do not use my 159 more than 10 hours, than it does not work at first start. I try to start it by pressing start button but it does not work... after trying 4-5 times more, than it works... And after working, I stopped it, and try to start it again, than it always works.
In brief, The problem is if I do not use it for a long time than it works really hard, but after working it always works easliy... What can be the problem ?

Thanks.
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Low pressure fuel pump? Or battery? Pump is in the fuel tank.
When you turn on the ignition you should hear a whir coming from the back ( turn the AC off so you can hear better), relay by the battery, failed pump or dodgy wiring ( there is a connection in the fuse box by the drivers knee, no fuse, that can be dodgy).
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Low pressure fuel pump? Or battery? Pump is in the fuel tank.
When you turn on the ignition you should hear a whir coming from the back ( turn the AC off so you can hear better), relay by the battery, failed pump or dodgy wiring ( there is a connection in the fuse box by the drivers knee, no fuse, that can be dodgy).
hi, yes it can be fuel pump. I will check it.
But you also said that "dodgy wiring (there is a connection in the fuse box by the drivers knee, no fuse, that can be dodgy)"
what did you mean with this? if there is a dodgy wiring, than why it starts easily after first hard start ? if there is a dodgy wiring, I guess it makes the same problem at every first start... but after first hard start than it starts really easy.
I checked it again and I saw en error... It was writing that "excessive radiator fluid temperature, stop and turn off engine"...

I think this may give us a clue :S ?
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This is the problem's video:

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Your battery looks dead to me, with those errors showing up after first almost try :-) (Radiator fluid level/cruise control off, well known when battery is on its way)

After succesfull engine-start, you dont see those on the video.

Try measuring the battery-voltage after the car has been left standing for some hours (where you typically experince the problem).
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Your battery looks dead to me, with those errors showing up after first almost try :-) (Radiator fluid level/cruise control off, well known when battery is on its way)

After succesfull engine-start, you dont see those on the video.

Try measuring the battery-voltage after the car has been left standing for some hours (where you typically experince the problem).
Yes I changed battery yesterday with 74 amper/hour. But result is not changed. Could it be diesel filter ?
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What's with the excessive radiator temp warning?!
Have you checked the fuel pump yet?!
Still seems like a laboured start the 2nd and 3rd time.
What speed is your starter motor cranking?!
You can try running some injector cleaner through also, may help a little.
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You changes the battery, but still get those errors? Are there enough fluid on the cooling-system? It could be the ground-wire from battery to chassis or engine to chassis...You could try measure between battery - & chassis + engine..Should be VERY close to 0 Volt..The computer is prone to do really weird stuff if battery just a bit low..Including ESP/hill-holder-fails & so.

Has there been done any work on the car before the start-fault showed up?
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You changes the battery, but still get those errors? Are there enough fluid on the cooling-system? It could be the ground-wire from battery to chassis or engine to chassis...You could try measure between battery - & chassis + engine..Should be VERY close to 0 Volt..The computer is prone to do really weird stuff if battery just a bit low..Including ESP/hill-holder-fails & so.

Has there been done any work on the car before the start-fault showed up?
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(Post Link) post #10 of 14 Old 06-11-16 Thread Starter
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I changed lots of parts, but problem goes on.

* fuel filter
*battery
*glow plugs changed.
*EGR valve cleaned,,,

But nothing changed.

It must not be such a complicated problem because it's symptom is very open. car only does not start quickly if I do not touch it for a long time (more than 3 hours). But after it starts, I stop it and then it quickly starts. alias it start easily after first hard start...

maybe it is about fuel pump, or pipelines?

Any different idea ?
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Could be the cold start relay. My 159 used to take an age to start from cold(left over night) but was fine once it had fired.
I changed all sorts from fuel filter, glow plugs, sensors, battery etc. Cold start relay finally sorted it, technically it's not a relay and is quite expensive but might be worth a go.
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Excessive radiator fluid temperature is common message which come during start when there is no enough voltage from battery during start procedure (at least seen by ECU). Sometimes comes up also with ASR/VDC/HH errors.
Remember that diesel first (even in warm temperature, but shorter), after you plug the key, warms up glow plugs - and that indication on the dash is not really showing the real glow plug heating time (it depends on temperature, and may be like say even like 15 sec in low temperatures) - this is high current load - changes from aroudn 50A at first second to say 30A after glow plugs become hot, and lowers voltage seen by ECU and other computers.

I suggest you start from simple thing - 15 minute job you can do yourself - clean up ground lead connection from battery to car body - the point at car body gets often oxidized and this may be reason of a lot of electrical "funs" in our alfas. Also, clean battery clamps.

Do you have battery charging working well? W.g have you measured it during engine is running - should be more than 14V if I remember correctly (with lights on etc).

EDIT. One more what I coudl think of, is starter already in poorer condition. That could be case in car which has on the clock over 200kkm as I see on video you posted. Usually it is just dirty, maybe starter brushes are used etc, and it is not that effective anymore, so uses more current, does not spin so well as it should, so starting takes more spins and time, and that manages to weaken battery output after a few seconds and cause enough voltage drop to end up with various errors shown on the dash. As far as I know, standard refurbishing of starter cost in Poland is order of EUR40 (includes stripping it to small pieces, cleaning, changing brushes, repainting case and some other required maintenance and testing), so if cleaning of ground connection point and battery terminals, and checking if charging is good, you may consider looking at starter. You may also check other GND/+12V connections between battery/body to engine/alternator/starter.
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Last edited by epsonix; 10-11-16 at 21:23.
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Excessive radiator fluid temperature is common message which come during start when there is no enough voltage from battery during start procedure (at least seen by ECU). Sometimes comes up also with ASR/VDC/HH errors.
Remember that diesel first (even in warm temperature, but shorter), after you plug the key, warms up glow plugs - and that indication on the dash is not really showing the real glow plug heating time (it depends on temperature, and may be like say even like 15 sec in low temperatures) - this is high current load - changes from aroudn 50A at first second to say 30A after glow plugs become hot, and lowers voltage seen by ECU and other computers.

I suggest you start from simple thing - 15 minute job you can do yourself - clean up ground lead connection from battery to car body - the point at car body gets often oxidized and this may be reason of a lot of electrical "funs" in our alfas. Also, clean battery clamps.

Do you have battery charging working well? W.g have you measured it during engine is running - should be more than 14V if I remember correctly (with lights on etc).

EDIT. One more what I coudl think of, is starter already in poorer condition. That could be case in car which has on the clock over 200kkm as I see on video you posted. Usually it is just dirty, maybe starter brushes are used etc, and it is not that effective anymore, so uses more current, does not spin so well as it should, so starting takes more spins and time, and that manages to weaken battery output after a few seconds and cause enough voltage drop to end up with various errors shown on the dash. As far as I know, standard refurbishing of starter cost in Poland is order of EUR40 (includes stripping it to small pieces, cleaning, changing brushes, repainting case and some other required maintenance and testing), so if cleaning of ground connection point and battery terminals, and checking if charging is good, you may consider looking at starter. You may also check other GND/+12V connections between battery/body to engine/alternator/starter.
thanks for answer. I did the things that you said. I used a new cable and take it between battery's negative voltage and engine mounth. Result is same.

And starter issue... I did not checked it yet. But a want to ask you something about this... I told that I only have starting problem when I do not use car for a long time (5 hours and more). Then if the car works, I stop it immediately after running (to check if will it run again or not) and yessss, it starts quickly after first hard running. So, if there is a problem on my starter, I guess car must not start quickly after first hard run. it must run hard at each start try I guess, but I am not sure...

I will checked my starter....

What about return hoses to fuel tank...? maybe there is leak on them. Does a leak occurs my problem?
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I'm sat here thinking it sounds like you have a fuel leak yeah. The longer you leave it the more drains back and turning the ignition on and off a few times re-primes the system.
Next time it is cold.
Get in, turn ignition only off and on 5 times and each time leave it on for 4-5 seconds. Don't press the clutch or brake down just yet so the engine doesn't fire.
Then after you have turned it on and off 5 times just on the ignition. Press the clutch and brake then try starting it. If it fires quickly it will be either the fuel draining back to tank or a problem with the glow plugs.
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