159 JTDM - Direction of engine rotation? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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159 JTDM - Direction of engine rotation?

Might sound like a daft question, but which way?

In the middle of changing the cam belt and doing a de-swirl and, looking at the belt where it passes around the crankshaft, the left side is tight, the right side is much looser - indicating that it rotates anti-clockwise.

Every car I've ever worked on rotates clockwise! Is this a first?

I want to rotate the crank to line up my timing marks and obviously, I want to go the right way!

Thanks
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Clockwise when looking at the engine from the cam-belt end.
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clockwise around the earth's axis aswell.
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It rotates clockwise. You need to crack off the cam pulley centre bolt before tensioning to ensure it is evenly tensioned.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
It rotates clockwise. You need to crack off the cam pulley centre bolt before tensioning to ensure it is evenly tensioned.
Errr... say what now?

I can't find any references to this - can you elaborate please? And do you mean the pulley on the end of the camshaft?

Thanks to all !
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Have you read the procedure for changing the cambelt on this engine, or bought the timing tools? Its important this job is done right, there is a huge amount of room for error on the JTD engine so changing the belt without tools is do-able, but you lose loads of economy and power when you get the timing out (that is assuming it is correct to begin with) and if you get the tension wrong the belt won't last anywhere near the change interval.

The cam pulley bolt needs to be loose when you set the tension otherwise you won't tension the part of the belt that runs from the cam pulley down to the crank pulley, it'll be slack like you describe and the crank will turn before the camshaft does, taking your engine out of time immediately upon starting and also de-tensioning the other side of the belt at the same time, risking a possible slip.
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(Post Link) post #7 of 17 Old 19-07-16 Thread Starter
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The only procedure I've got is the eLearn one. Doesn't mention slacking off the cam pulley. How is the pulley keyed to the camshaft?

Surely if you can move the pulley relative to the camshaft, that'll bugger up the timing?

The slack I'm seeing is probably due to the last belt-changer not doing it properly, so your info is hugely appreciated - thank you.

Yes - I've got the locking tools.

This engine is by far the weirdest one I've ever worked on.
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Didn't realise you were looking at the slack on your old belt rather than slack on the new belt you have just fitted...

There is a key way on the cam pulley, but the key way isn't a tight one if you know what I mean, it allows maybe 10 or 20 degrees of movement of the pulley to allow for tension to be evened out. As long as the camshaft & crankshaft are both held with the timing tools when you set the tension and then tighten the cam pulley back up, your timing should be correct. The cam sensor reads the back of the cam pulley wheel but it is only there to show the engine what phase it is on so its exact correlation to the crank pulley to the degree is not required. If it is outside of a certain maximum advanced/retarded position it will trigger an error but otherwise will show the engine which injector cylinder is on TDC at the start of the power stroke and which is on TDC at the start of the intake stroke.

I feed the belt onto the pulleys working around anti clockwise from the crank pulley, so over the idler first, then the cam pulley, at this point you can pull the belt tight which turns the pulley back (have the pulley turned forward first), feed it around the fuel pump pulley, then while you are holding that bit tight, slip the other end onto the tensioner and lastly over the waterpump which is the only un-toothed pulley. Tension, nip up the cam pulley, remove locks, turn it over a good load of times, refit the locks to double check nothing has moved, job done.
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(Post Link) post #9 of 17 Old 19-07-16 Thread Starter
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Oh hang on - it's all just clicked, and now it makes perfect sense. This is actually quite elegant. I'm presuming there's something like a morse taper on the end of the camshaft which allows for pefect pulley adjustment. The crank tool locks the crank in the right place, and the camshaft locking pins lock the cam's in the right place.

Very nice. I like it now :-)

Thank you.
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I think we were typing at the same time so messages overlapped.

Yes. All makes wonderful sense now!

Didn't expect a response at this time of night - really appreciate it!
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Elegant is a good word for it, pity the same can't be said for those swirl flaps. Have you got the inlet manifold out yet? You'll have fun with that

No worries, if you ever need us for something more complicated we are only up the road.
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I'll be de-swirling while I've got this far. Though I hear the inlet manifold fouls on the fuel pump which makes it a ***** to remove.

And I pick the hottest 2 days of the year to do this :-/
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Quote:
I hear the inlet manifold fouls on the fuel pump which makes it a ***** to remove
Not just the pump but also the timing cover backplate and oil filter housing - enjoy!
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Hah! Such joys await me!

I'm waiting for the weather to cool off a bit - nudging 32 degrees here today so I decided against it
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Quick update: After 48 hours soaking the injectors in penetrating fluid and carb cleaner - they're out! The copper washers have come with them, well they have for injectors 2-4, injector 1 appears to have had a rubber o-ring instead.

I noticed early on in the strip down that the cam-belt seemed loose. I actually took it off just by pulling. The tensioner appears to have failed.

Was originally looking for a top-end rattle but inspection of the rockers and lifters shows no apparent problems.

Tomorrow, the inlet manifold comes off and any remaining swirl flaps get relegated to the bin.

Huge thanks to Autolusso, Pud237 and the rest of you for such awesome help and advice so far - I've needed it!
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If the cam belt was loose enough for you to just pull it off, then that was probably the rattle.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprint_veloce View Post
If the cam belt was loose enough for you to just pull it off, then that was probably the rattle.
I'm hoping so - I can't find anything else wrong at all.

Inlet manifold is finally off - hurrah!

Surprisingly clean and all four swirl flaps are still in place. The power file will soon see to that though

A complete pig of a job. If I'd been nearer an Autolusso I would have happily turned the job over to them. What I need now is someone to come and put it all back together for me.

Bit of cleaning tomorrow and I can start to put her back together. Really looking forward to that. Despite all the problems, I love my Alfa!
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