Has the 159 been a failure or is too early to tell?

[Tee-O]

Just wondering as I'm not seeing as many of them on the road as I did with the 156 at its first 6 months of launch.

Are the dealers able to supply them or are they just not selling? Does anyone think that they have priced them a bit expensive which could be one of the main reasons?

[David C]

It hasn't even been 6-months since launch yet, it is far too soon to tell.
But the 156 was the biggest selling Alfa in the UK ever so will take some beating.

The 156 was over sold really and that has hurt its values, so a slightly lower selling Alfa sold to the right customers wouldn't be a bad thing.

[selespeed]

There are several reasons:

• the 159 is very heavy (road tax is based on car weight over here)
• the 159 is a lot more expensive than the 156
• more and more companies don't except Alfa as a lease car anymore
• even though the 159 looks very good, the wow-factor the car lovers had when the 156 was introduced is not there

Agree with Selespeeds comments...is the 159 also CO2 rich as that's how new cars are taxed here.

I've still only seen ONE 159 on the roads and I suspect that was a dealer car!!!

wrinx

[sandys]

The 159 and Brera are too expensive but I have seen a quite a few 159s going to work in the morning, considering they haven't been out long I thought it was quite promising for Alfa.

I'd be interested in knowing how well/bad the sales figures are in th UK.

[the slipperman]

As far as i am concerned part of the attraction in owning an Alfa is the exclusivity. Although i own one and love it, there are too many 156's on the road for my liking. When i had a 146 i could go days before i saw another.

[selespeed]

Originally Posted by wrinx

..is the 159 also CO2 rich as that's how new cars are taxed here.

What's in a number? The 159 JTDm16v produces 159 g/km

Which is 6 grams more then the equivalent Audi A4 and BMW 320d

The Audi 2.0 FSI (200 bhp) scores a lot better than the 159 2.2 JTS (185 bhp) though: 185 g/km vs 221 g/km

[Tee-O]

Originally Posted by the slipperman

As far as i am concerned part of the attraction in owning an Alfa is the exclusivity. Although i own one and love it, there are too many 156's on the road for my liking. When i had a 146 i could go days before i saw another.

I used to think that about 2yrs ago, but there are less and less well kept and nice 156's on the road now than there were 2yrs ago.

I'm entering my 7th year of ownership of my 156 and there are a very few proteo reds with a SP anywhere I drive over here, so I still feel my car is a little unique. Silver ones with no SP though are 2 a penny.

I'm just not seeing enough of them on the road or any advertising to suggest they are really pushing them on. Even speaking to a dealer a while ago about them, he felt they would struggle to sell many of them partly due to the huge price increase over the 156.

There is just one 146 in my estate where I live and I rarely see any at all these days. The funny thing is, this 146 used to belong to my sister 5yrs ago and she traded it into a garage 150 miles away and it ends up around the corner from me.

Why would you buy a 159 when the likes of audi, vw, and even ford do it much better, lighter and cheaper..?

IMHO the passion has gone, the design team behind the 159 tried to build an a4 and forgot to put the twin turbos on the V6....

[alfa_147_jtd_16v]

I was going to start a new thread, but I'll post here instead seeing as its most appropiate.

I have just had my test drive in a 2.4 JTD SW and was mainly underwhelmed. There were things I loved about it, but things I was rather disappointed with too.

The engine - I did not check to see how many miles were on it, but it felt extremely unresponsive. I am not sure if it was down to the throttle response or what, but what I do know is that the turbo does not even begin to wind up at all, until 2k revs (according to the boost gauge and salesman). It just felt sooo slow though. Even when the revs rised above 2k it did not really take off.
I hopped back into my 147 afterwards and it felt (and did) go like a rocket was up its ar5e!
Needless to say I am not impressed with the 2.4 and I look forward to drive a 1.9 SW.
The engine noise when you revved it though - OMG - Why buy a petrol, petrol heads?....this engine totally amazed me. The 4cyl unit I have purrs and growls along nicely, but can be course when you rev it. The 2.4 though makes this gorgeous sound and is soo smooth and quiet as you rev it, although the usual diesel trait is still there at tickover.

The handling - Brilliant!. Cornered flat, although I didn't really push it!

The ride - Longer wheel base and some decent suspension (unlike the jelly like 147's!) made the ride compliant yet sporty. It absorbed pot holes very well indeed. No doubt the mass in excess kerbweight helps too.

The transmission and steering - The steering is very much like the 147 which is good and the transmission was light and easy to use, although the gear change was ever so slightly notchy - note the 'slightly' though!

Seats - nice and comfortable and supportive, as most Alfas have always been of course.

Overall - Very nice car, but far too heavy and too slugish especially when you bear in mind 200bhp, and a 2.4 5 cylinder and its a bit pricy.
I would like to drive the 1.9 SW for comparassion in the near future.
Would I buy one? - maybe when the 147 gets too old and expensive to run but for now the 147 (to me) is just such a lovely all rounder I think the 147 will be staying with me for some time yet (especially as the money I have lost on it!).

[Gary Slegg]

I think its too early to tell whether thy've been a success or failure, and nobody would deny the quality of them. However, I think a number of people feel that Alfa have missed an opportunity

[symon]

What they have done IMO is replaced the 156 with a car which in many areas is not as good. Like styling, and the fact it is too heavy. It also put off many people that the car uses GM parts, and if people wanted GM parts they would have bought an Opel or Vauxhall. There was little wrong with the Alfa engines anyway was there?

[David C]

Originally Posted by symonh2000

There was little wrong with the Alfa engines anyway was there?

Apart from not meeting new emissions requirements.

Engine development is a very expensive business and every car manufacturer is sharing the development with another. You don't hear Peugeot customers complaining about getting Ford Diesel engines, probably because they don't know. It is a shame that the old engines had to go, especially the V6, but there was probably no other option given the amount of money in the company kitty at the moment.

[Tenk]

I just don't think Alfa's have a good enough reputation to get the price they ask for the 159 in the UK especially if you see what happened on resale values of a 156. Its probably a good car but it has good competition too, even if they are slower they are going to thrash the alfa on actual cost of ownership.

[Tee-O]

so should we start a poll on whether people actually think it will be a success or failure?

I have a feeling in 12-18 months, the price will have to drop a few grand to get people in the showrooms.

[Nev]

Is this just is a UK only thing?

"Alfa Romeo: good looking, sound great, but
they are so badly made and they rust.
And what about that horrible driving position......."

Just in the same way that people think Mercs
are solid reliable cars that never go wrong.

And there is always the issue of the dealers.



I've seen loads down here. So maybe in the grand-
scheme of things it's going okay for AR in Europe.

[David C]

RHD deliveries are always later than LHD, so it always takes longer for new Alfas to start appearing over here. Many people who put in orders at the launch are only just receiving their cars now...

There was a nice selection of Breras at National Alfa Day though.

[Kevin Slegg]

I have to agree with the general concensus, that Alfa have replaced the 156 with a car that is significantly more expensive, heavier, not as 'performance/sports' orientated, not as charasmatic (in terms of engine) and less fuel efficient (I mainly talking about the 3.2Q4).

I believe that it has been on sale in the UK now for about 6 months and, as I said in the 'Is Anyone Buying The 159' thread in the General Discussion section, according to Autocar only 600 159's have been registered so far!!!

I STILL have not seen either a 159 or Brera on the road.

Alfa need to do something desperately quickly.

[symon]

Originally Posted by David C

Apart from not meeting new emissions requirements.

Engine development is a very expensive business and every car manufacturer is sharing the development with another. You don't hear Peugeot customers complaining about getting Ford Diesel engines, probably because they don't know. It is a shame that the old engines had to go, especially the V6, but there was probably no other option given the amount of money in the company kitty at the moment.

Did Alfa not develop the cylinder heads on the new engines? Surely if they had fitted the new alfa heads to the original Alfa blocks the emmissions would have been acceptable. I think the use of GM blocks was more of a cost cutting excersise than anything else.

I see a similar trend appearing with the Alfa 159 that happened to the Fiat stilo. It was made to be too much like it's German competitors that it lost it's soul and it's passion. people disliked it because of this and went and bought German because they do what the fiat was trying to do better.

[Stori]

Originally Posted by symonh2000

Did Alfa not develop the cylinder heads on the new engines? Surely if they had fitted the new alfa heads to the original Alfa blocks the emmissions would have been acceptable. I think the use of GM blocks was more of a cost cutting excersise than anything else.

I see a similar trend appearing with the Alfa 159 that happened to the Fiat stilo. It was made to be too much like it's German competitors that it lost it's soul and it's passion. people disliked it because of this and went and bought German because they do what the fiat was trying to do better.

The V6 engine has fully variable cam adjustment straight from the "GM" factory. It is much simpler and cheaper to modify that engine then trying to put a fully variable cam system on the old Arese V6 for example. Similary the new 4 cylinder engine has fuly variable cams and is all Aluminium alloy enhine rather than cast iron block.

If Alfa are churning out 300,000 cars by 2010 as they want ( a 100% increase) then maybe you will see more Alfa Romeo/FIAT specific engines.

[Tee-O]

Originally Posted by Nev

Is this just is a UK only thing?

"Alfa Romeo: good looking, sound great, but
they are so badly made and they rust.
And what about that horrible driving position......."

Just in the same way that people think Mercs
are solid reliable cars that never go wrong.

And there is always the issue of the dealers.



I've seen loads down here. So maybe in the grand-
scheme of things it's going okay for AR in Europe.

Maybe the fact you are closer to Italy might have something to do with the greater numbers in the Sth France...perhaps?

I have seen one Brera & 2 159's in the last 6 months on the road.

I hope it improves because the chances of picking up a used 159 in a few years time doesn't look promising

[Jason 156]

Originally Posted by Tee-O

I hope it improves because the chances of picking up a used 159 in a few years time doesn't look promising

That is what I was thinking too

I was hoping to swap to a 159 in a year or two's time but I doubt there being that many on the used car market to choose from! I have not seen one Brera on the road yet and only two 159's.

[splashalot2000]

Tend to agree with consensus here - for mine the 159 misses the mark (marque?!). I was dead-set keen to buy one, until I drove it (2.2JTS). It just doesn't drive like an Alfa should. I found the 159 I drove to be really unresponsive and boring - floaty ride, dreadful throttle response and spongy brakes. Steering was good, though. Both my Subaru and 147 run rings around the 159 for responsiveness and personality. For mine the 156 is streets ahead - even if flawed.

SS

[NSJ]

I agree with a lot of the comments in this thread.
1. The "wow" factor. I can still remember the first time I saw a 156 and immediately wanted one. Obviously as it retains a continuity of design that was never going to happen with 159, but it seems to me they made it somehow clumsier looking, and it certainly doesn't look as good in the metal as in the pre-release photographs.I think it may have something to do with the rear door handles no longer being "hidden" and therefore the car is more obviously a 4 door saloon.
2.The pricing. When I first heard the prices of the car,I thought Alfa were having a joke.I also understand that Alfa will not allow any dealer discounts within 6 months of the release of a new model.It should be borne in mind that when 156 was released it was also priced comparatively highly compared with equivalent Audi's, Bmw's etc and it was only after a couple of years and with the availability of imports that the 156 was repositioned in the market.A lot of early purchasers suffered horrendous depreciation and that was certainly one factor that "eased" my decision to go for a GT rather than a 159
3. The "feel" of the car.I can best describe it as being "allright".I disliked the slabby dash, and in particular the hunk of silver plastic in the centre console.The handbrake was almost impossible to operate without performing contortions.Personally I didn't think the finish was the great advance over 156 that it is supposed to be, and certainly wasn't up to Audi/BMW standards, and the car didn't give me the feedback that I have with 156/147 and now GT. In short, I was disappointed with it as it seemed to have lost the intimacy of 156 while failing to beat the German manufacturers at whom the car was obviously targetted.
4. In my opinion Alfa have a significant problem. I think it will take a significant restructuring of pricing before the vehicle will sell in numbers. I appreciate that they wish to reposition the marque as a genuine competitor to the Germans, but quite frankly 159 is not the car to do this.I have seen several 159s on the road, but certainly not as many 156 as I spotted after launch.
5. Brera is not such a problem. My dealer advises that they are only allocated 2 vehicles per month, and they are flying out of the showroom.

[Kevin Slegg]

Originally Posted by NSJ

2.The pricing. When I first heard the prices of the car,I thought Alfa were having a joke.I also understand that Alfa will not allow any dealer discounts within 6 months of the release of a new model.It should be borne in mind that when 156 was released it was also priced comparatively highly compared with equivalent Audi's, Bmw's etc and it was only after a couple of years and with the availability of imports that the 156 was repositioned in the market.A lot of early purchasers suffered horrendous depreciation and that was certainly one factor that "eased" my decision to go for a GT rather than a 159

I think the price drop of the 156 was due to the fact that there was, at that time, a big consumer out-cry at how much more the UK customer was paying compared to other European countries and therefore all cars prices dropped around the year 1999 - 2000