Has the 159 been a failure or is too early to tell?

[tredmond]

At a basic level too much of such discussions revolve around 159 residuals, fuel economy blah blah. Fact is if you want something sensible then buy some 1.0 litre diesel (0-60 eventually) five door hatchback that does 60+ mpg. Don't buy any BMW or any Alfa or any Lexus or any Audi etc..

BMW's have a better residual value than a 159. So what? I'm sure a small city car is a better investment than any BMW etc. The 159 is a bucket load slower and less comfortable that the Volvo S60 T5 I used to drive but is a much sportier car to drive.

The 159 is better looking than a 3-series and has more "character". The 156 is more raw than a 159 (I've owned 2 x 2.0 TS before) but a real "drivers" car. The 159 appears to be an attempt to bridge the 156 and the BMW/Audi world and it manages to do so admirably. It's all relative..

From these discussion boards it is obvious that there are way more 159s on the continent than there are in UK/Ireland and that makes perfect sense - they've been making left-hand drive 159s for a year now with right-hand drives only being made since December.

My 159 (as yet undelivered since January - long story) is a 2.2 JTS and everyone is telling me I'm mad to have ordered a petrol. Why? Because of fuel economy. The 1.9 JTDm/150 bhp is similar in performance but I like the quietness of petrol. Mad? Well I point back to the sensible notion of a 1.0 diesel city runabout mentioned earlier..

Alfa has never been great on the delivery of new cars to a market and it'll be nice to drive one of the few 159s on the road in Ireland. In 2 years time they'll be way more common and the success/failure discussion is waaaay premature.

T.

[Nev]

Originally Posted by tredmond

Exactly!

[MrTC]

Originally Posted by Kevin Slegg

I'm not trying to justify my 156; as before its launch I had every anticipation of running to the dealer to order the 159; but I have to say I'm personally disappointed with it to date.

Apart from the VW Passat, the Alfa is appreaciably heavier than its direct competition - and whilst I accept that this might be because it 'newer' and therefore meets the current crash standards after the Autocar road test of the Brera I am wondering exactly how heavy the 159 is???

And sorry, I disagree with you - Alfa is known as being a 'sports' brand; with the 156 they certainly proved they can make sports saloons. They should have been able to produce a car that is safe, but still retaining the Alfa 'core' values of being good looking, charasmatic, good handling (with a chuckability factor) and with an engine which begs to be red-lined.

I can`t comment on sales in your country as I don`t live there , but again all I can tell you is that I see plenty of 159s already in Belgium, lots of my colleagues are ordering one, Fiat group released a press statement attributing strong sales to GP & 159 and finally my own dealer tells me they are selling very nicely.

As for weight, here`s some examples to show that most people are talking out of their *** when they say the 159 is oh-so heavy:

Lexus IS 220d 1575 kg vs Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm 1630 kg
Power-to-weight 0,112 HP/kg vs 0,123 HP/kg

Audi A4 2.7 TDI 1540kg vs Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm 1630 kg
Power-to-weight 0,117 HP/kg vs 0,123 HP/kg

BMW 325d 1525 kg vs Alfa 159 2.4 JTDm 1630 kg
Power-to-weight 0,129 HP/kg vs 0,123 HP/kg

Basically people just picked up on some journo comments and are repeating the same line over and over. Reality is that the base engines are a bit light for the car, but then again that is true for most cars (a 318d isn`t exactly blisteringly fast either) and the 3.2 Q4 is a bit of a porker, but then again most V6 4WD cars are. I`d say the biggest missed opportunity for the 159 is RWD, not weight.

Lighter cars do handle better, but the same holds for cars with a stiffer chassis. The 159 will outhandle everything bar a 3-series. So basically if you want the lightest, fastest, best-handling car then get a 3-series. But then you are probably visiting the wrong forum. BMW has the rest of the automotive world licked when it comes to middle-class saloons - why would Alfa be an exception? They come an honourable second best, I can live with that as an Alfa enthousiast.

[MrTC]

Originally Posted by splashalot2000

MrTC, I'm glad you like your 159 - good luck to you. However, for many Alfisti, the 159 doesn't fit the brand values. It's a lovely car, is drop-dead gorgeous, but it is just not a traditional Alfa. No gorgeous noise, no throttle response and no brio. For mine, it's just not as much fun to drive as it should be. I desperately wanted to love it, but the driving experience just left me completely underwhelmed. I too likened it to a Honda, but it pains me to say I actually preferred the Honda. Sorry.

SS

I think you`re mixing up the direction Alfa is moving in and general trends in the automotive industry. You are simply describing cars like quite a few manufacturers used to offer them in the past (though Alfa did so more consistently than most): light, loud, revvy & chuckable. But also unfrugal, unreliable, unsafe & polluting. The general trend is simply that cars like that are not built anymore. It`s nice to dream of Alfa being the exception to this trend, but the simple reality is that only a very small minority buy the `cars of old` that you are so interested in. Not enough for a brand to survive on, apparantly.

So if Alfa are going to have to go where the industry is heading, then IMO the 159 is pretty damn close to the best a modern car in its class can be.

[KoFFiE]

According to this video on youtube (test from some german car program/magazine) - the 159 outhandles the BMW 320d, fort mondeo and Merc C220 CDI...

[Negative Creep]

Agree with a lot of the comments here; if you want practicality then go buy a scenic diesel. Alfas are cars that are brought more with the heart than head, and the image of unreliabilty still lingers. Plus a lot ofits target audience are to blinked to see anywhere past their 318......

[rarebear]

With the likelyhood of a major war in the Middle east and crude prices likely to go to 200 usd or more , we will all suffer with our gas/diesel guzzling cars whether Alfa/Beemer/Audi etc all these discussions will stop in the near future... we will be glad if we have a bike in the shed...

[MJT]

Just got back from a weeks break in the North of Italy. Flew into Turin and picked up a hire car and did about 320 miles on mostly back roads and the A5 Autostrada. How many 159's did I see on the road? Two! I don't think they are selling.

[Nev]

Originally Posted by MJT

Just got back from a weeks break in the North of Italy. Flew into Turin and picked up a hire car and did about 320 miles on mostly back roads and the A5 Autostrada. How many 159's did I see on the road? Two! I don't think they are selling.

'cause they're all over here on holiday!!!

[logic]

I just ordered one ...
that's right, no beemer after all.

[Kevin Slegg]

Well I STILL haven't seen one on the road

However, the number plates change at the end of this month so maybe I'll start to see them after that

[gazza82]

Seen about five 159s and a few Brera's .... I think it's early and Alfa's build-times are fairly long. Give it a couple of months ....

[badgers_nadgers]

I've yet to see a 159, but I have seen a Brera.

[David C]

I've seen both 156 and Brera.
The thing is, I honestly don't know how long after the 156 was released I saw the first one on the road.

[Stori]

Have only seen one 159 on the road but the dealer has lots of them........

[Trailbraker]

I have seen a reasonable smattering of 159's in Dublin over the last few months, haven't seen a Brera yet though.

[toby2449]

i've seen a few 159 on the roads of dublin to leitrim, and have seen one Brera. The 159 though isn't selling well, and i doubt Alfa or parent company Fiat are too happy about its sales so far in Europe. Its sold just 24305 Jan-May (the most up to date figs available), this is supposed to be the start of the Alfa revival (yeah, another revival!)

Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, in 2004 the 156 sold 26079 in the same period!

[cj romeo]

Mine was at the pod last weekend - the only one there though, much more exclusive than the Brera - there were 2 of those!

[jwyatt]

I've seen one Brera and no 159's on the road. I'd suggest this is a problem for Alfa.

Personally I think the 159 needs Passat-beating pricing, not just 3-series beating pricing. The 159 has little wow-factor with me, and we do need a family car as soon as I can afford it (not soon) in addition to the GTA which I'll keep. My wife - whose car it will be - far prefers the looks of the new passat, estate and saloon, to the 159, which is interesting as she loved the 156. When I look at the pricing of the Passat I have to say it looks great value alongside the 159, and if my experiences are anything to go by the passat will be a bit less hassle and hold its value better too.

When (if) the time comes we'll test a 159SW 2.4 and a passat estate 2.0T (petrol) and maybe the passat V6 if they are decent value SH like the last one was. But I think Alfa need to realise that for now at least they are competing vs the Passat and Accord and similar cars, not on badge snobbery maybe but these cars are excellent drives and good value. I'm not denigrating the brand, just being a realist - cars like my GTA are great for a petrol head like me but that's not a big % of the market.

[rarebear]

[QUOTE=
When (if) the time comes we'll test a 159SW 2.4 and a passat estate 2.0T (petrol) and maybe the passat V6 if they are decent value SH like the last one was. But I think Alfa need to realise that for now at least they are competing vs the Passat and Accord and similar cars, not on badge snobbery maybe but these cars are excellent drives and good value. I'm not denigrating the brand, just being a realist - cars like my GTA are great for a petrol head like me but that's not a big % of the market.[/QUOTE]

exactly !!! fuel prices will skyrocket in the very near future !!!

[Mel Bonkers]

Originally Posted by Tee-O

Just wondering as I'm not seeing as many of them on the road as I did with the 156 at its first 6 months of launch.

Are the dealers able to supply them or are they just not selling? Does anyone think that they have priced them a bit expensive which could be one of the main reasons?

Tee-O, I have no idea, but I'm sure glad to see your avatar......eeehh.....ahum.....a thread of you on AO again!

[chingashow]

Originally Posted by KoFFiE

According to this video on youtube (test from some german car program/magazine) - the 159 outhandles the BMW 320d, fort mondeo and Merc C220 CDI...

3 or 4 month ago i saw a road test ( by a program wich is similar to 5thgear ) including new Alfa 159, bmw 3series, honda accord, pegeout 407 & other cars of the same class!!!
Alfa made it perfect winning almoast all compititions, bmw was on 2nds and 3rds, Accord and 407 were the worst cars!!!

and probably 159 WTCCcar entry next year will improve sales

[Gary Slegg]

Well, over the weekend I drove from Wrexham to Surrey and back - a round trip of 440 miles. On that journey I saw 1 MGA, 1 Austin Healey 3000, 1 new Audi TT, 1 Brera, 2 Aston Martins, and no 159s...which is worrying. On the plus side, the 159 seems to be selling as well as the GTV did!

[Gary Slegg]

Hurray, I've just seen my first 159, a 2.4 JTD in black with beige leather interior Amazingly is parked in the car park near where I live, and I must say, it does look stunning

[BigFoot]

A couple of days ago Fiat's production numbers came out for Italy. Alfa 159 has a 15.7% market share in its segment (first place).
The 159 & Sportswagon order book is at 64k units and Brera/Spider at 11,400.