Much around an Injector.

[Maverick Styles]

Has anyone seen this before? (see attachments) It could just be a spillage from previous owner but i've given a good clean to see if it comes back.......... Just now I'm looking for opinions on what it could be fault wise.

Gary

[ALFA TUNER]

Injector seal may have started leaking.

[coxy1]

Originally Posted by ALFA TUNER

Injector seal may have started leaking.

+1. Get it changed asap. The longer you leave it the harder it will be to get out.

[cj romeo]

Originally Posted by coxy1

+1. Get it changed asap. The longer you leave it the harder it will be to get out.

Indeed, kills a lot of mercs....

[Maverick Styles]

Thanks for quick reply guys. Do you mean the copper seals? If so does that mean that it's highly likely the last owner had these injectors out and did not replace these seals for new or is it something that can happen .....mmmm?

[A6]

I had this on one of my injectors, I've had a leaking injector that went in under warranty to repair when I first bought the car. They claim to have replaced two at the time.

But i continued to suffer a smokey start, took it to Indy and leaking injector diagnosed. However as part of the removal of the injector mine too looked just like this with it stuck solid in place with carbon deposits. The garage had to get a specialist tool to remove the injector as it was not budging.

The long and the short of it was it looks like the dealers didn't bother changin the injectors as they told me they did and worst still they reused the old copper seals one of which dead not seated properly resulting in this problem.

All new seals fitted now and brand new injector. But yes get it seen to ASAP before it gets stuck solid or you will be coughing up for a new injector too.

[benallenuk]

I took one of my injectors out this weekend as I had mad correction value reported by FES for cylinder one.

They are really easy to remove, you just need to make sure that you replace the copper washer and clean the area carefully to ensure a good seal.

My injector looks really clean, I'm going to graph the correction values again and see if I solved anything.

[Maverick Styles]

I once put air in tyres .... ! So when you say easy ..... ?

Also want to do glow plugs myself...... Any good guidance/resources around?

[Maverick Styles]

The plot thickens

Swirl flap number 1 has muck around it also. The plastic cap in pic 2 & 3 was also knocking about down there lose, goodness only knows where that has come from (hopefully just some unwanted debris). Pic 4 shows muck seeping from hose to turbo (similar to damondaysh), the clean marks are where wiped my finger through.

Are there seperate demons at play here? Or are the rough white smokey cold start ups, busted injector seal, debris, mucky swirl flap, insane messy injector values (FES), seepage at hose to turbo, all related to one monster at war with in this 2.4 Ti

Really crap MPG currently also..........

Concerned for the future

would buying a warranty at this stage be a good idea? Any insights faultwise much appreciated.

Gary

[Maverick Styles]

Nobody has anything info regarding the swirl flap? I'm guessing gunk has come from the manifold. Does anyone know how severe an issue this is though?

Gary

[Joomoo]

check for loose swirls... change inlet manifold?

Clean complete air intake system and buy an oil catch can.

and close egr

[Maverick Styles]

Originally Posted by Joomoo

check for loose swirls... change inlet manifold?

Clean complete air intake system and buy an oil catch can.

and close egr

HA! sounds like £20 should cover it then. I think this car is going to the bin then. Just under 3.5 years old!!!

My 04 MG ZT 102k has been less troublesome in 6 years of ownership than 3 weeks with this tin can with an alfa badge. Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alfa.Romeo]

Originally Posted by Maverick Styles

My 04 MG ZT 102k has been less troublesome in 6 years of ownership than 3 weeks with this tin can with an alfa badge. Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you should look a bit closer before buying cars in future then

Any second hand car will probably have a issue here or there, but if you buy it as seen with no decent warranty you know who's fault that is

[Joomoo]

at least you do not have a broken engine do to a broken swirlflap like a lot of bmw´s ....
newer jtdm models do not have swirlflaps anymore ...
if you buy a diesel check swirlflaps ...
regarding injector it is a cheap fix...

[Maverick Styles]

edited

[Joomoo]

blame euro 4-5 rules

when you have oil evaporating from engine into air system +diesel (7% min biodiesel) mixed with oil engine (due to dpf backpressure creating dilution and evaporation ) + reusable exhaust fumes trough egr ....
you can imagine the sludge in the air tubes , turbo, map sensor , trottlebody, inlet maifold and swirlflaps and so on...

Specially if you buy a 4 year old with lower mileage that only drove in the city...
I would prefer to buy a higher mileage car ,that used the warranty to fix all problems,

the swirls brake do to sludge preventing them to close or open properly...

Almost everybody out of warranty takes dpf out closes egr valve in order to extend the life of the engine...

but calling your car a tin can with an alfa badge does show that :
-you did not do a full search regarding what you were buying
-you bought a used car from private without putting 5-10% of budget for repairs that normaly show up as soon as you buy it
-you did not take it to a certified dealer to check it properly
-you should buy from dealer with warranty

you should not blame alfa romeo for your bad decisions
there are lemons everywhere
and probably you bought one

[Tibbz2000]

Hey on my second 159, both bought privatley following a lot of searching for the right car and i'm pleased to say they have been the best cars i've ever owned in fact i sometimes lose sleep worrying what car i could possibly buy next that will come anywhere near my current 2.4ti, it's a shame your having a few teething troubles but hey you pays your money you takes your chances dont put the whole range down over a few bad experiences

[wynne71]

And back on topic.....

My 1.9jtdm had the same oil around the injector closest to the oil filler cap.
When the specialist looked over the car for me he mentioned it might be a leaking injector seal, but not to worry about it.
I cleaned the area so it was as new, and check regularly.
Since then (6K miles) there has been the tiniest amount of oil/diesel around the injector, but really tiny amounts. Not enough for me to get worried about, yet.

The car runs really well, no rough spots of bad starting, and it has 96.5K on the clock. Nice.

[Alfadisiac]

Originally Posted by Maverick Styles

I'm sorry it hurts your pride but this generation of Alfa Romeos for what ever reason are badly made cars and the market is reflecting this with the massive crashes in valuation.

Sell your car then and go buy another. Looks to me as though you bought a lemon.

My 159 1.9 JTDm is on 90k mile, on original clutch and had no problems at all that we're of any concern. Ok, it is now leaking boost, but only since having cam belt done a few weeks ago... But that's not a major problem, just an annoyance as I don't have the power I should have, but I'll be sorting that out over the weekend....

What I find is, if you speak to people with respect, they will reply with respect... I came into this topic late on and found that you were giving banter about Alfa Romeo, but couldn't receive any from Alfa.Romeo. This is a friendly forum and nothing people say should be taken to heart, it's all friendly banter, and there is no harm in that....

Rant over....

[Joomoo]

people have to know that 159 is a mid range sw trying to compete with audi a4,bmw 3 and other brandmarks...
do to massive crashes in valuation (like volvo, skoda,) people prefer to buy a beautiful sw instead of buying an almost new renault clio or a fors focus...
When people start to realize how much they will pay for parts that you are obliged to change because it is part of maintenance they start to blame on alfa.
Problem is not alfa(problem is people that buy them because is cheap)... the clutch from 159 costs the same in an audi or bmw like injectors or manifold.
and you have to change them also in a bmw or audi...
People buy them cheap second hand and run a long time without proper maintenance and as soon something goes wrong they sell those cars full of problems privately as you can see...
the question is, as soon as you have to change the clutch+ dmf and you discover that it will cost 1200 , will you come here and say alfa is bad and so on...
A proper Alfisti would buy a new alfa if they could... people who buy alfas because are cheap soon realize it is not cheap to maintain them... should not buy them...
your problem is really easy to fix
check manifold and swirlflaps ... if it bad change it (you should also change cambelt)
change seal in injector or fix injector if needed.
If you start saying bad things from alfa with such a small problem, imagine what you will say if you have a real serious problem....
I agree with alfa .romeo on this one...
talking bad things about alfa is like saying bad things about my mother...
people get emotional...


I really do not get you way of thinking... you think 159 is a bad made car an you go buy one????
Is this for real?????

[Maverick Styles]

To finish the post - muck around injector 1 is in fact oil not fuel. Not an injector seal but the problem was the rocker cover gasket. This was also the culprit for the muck around swirl flap 1.

Fuel filter was not changed at service by Alfa dealer as date stamp confirmed this. This is typical behaviour apparently of the Alfa dealer network.

Injectors were shot. 4 completely remanufactured. Geometry aligned. EGR and throttle body cleaned. New uprated discs and pads. No value added because its an Alfa!!

Thanks to those who tried to help with technical guidance. Those that just wanted to talk partisan rubbish were a waste of everyone's time especially their own.

Enjoy!

[Joomoo]

Injectors were shot. 4 completely remanufactured. Geometry aligned. EGR and throttle body cleaned. New uprated discs and pads. No value added because its an Alfa!!

strange thing to have 4 injectors shot at the same time...
good thing you did not have problem with swirls...