159 / Brera / Spider tyre wear issues - VIP - Revised Information

[Fireblade1990]

Hi.

I have a 159 2.4 with 17" P Zero Rossos, replaced at 25000mls with less than 2mm. I bought the car with 7000mls, assume the tyres had not been replaced. They had worn evenly across the tread, I switched front and rears at about 18000mls. I never felt the handling to be special, perhaps there is a compromise between negative camber/toe out/sharp handling on the one hand and inner tread wear on the other.

I now have Hankook Ventus Prime K105s, very limited choice when I needed them, only one P Zero Rosso was available at the time. The Hankooks are OK, wear seems reasonable after 7000mls, grip not brilliant in the wet, I still think steering set up is the key and, from what I have read, 18"s are more prone to inner wear than 17"s. I also think all dealers, all makes, quote very low expectations, I threw out 2 perished Saxo tyres after 90,000mls, dealer said 20,000 was good. Mind you, my wife was the main driver and the tyres only fell apart when the children started driving!!

[Alfa 4eva]

We phoned ARUK today as they still have not returned my calls it turns out that they have for some reason been calling me back on the wrong number even though they have had no problems before ??? Anyway asked them what was the situation with our tyre wear issue and they replied with we cant do anything until your car has been checked by a dealer, ...er it has i said, in early December, no it hasn't she said we have no record of it this argument continued for a while untill i asked if she thought i was lying.... so they now want me to go back to the dealers AGAIN to have the same setting checked, I'm closer to my dealers than most but its still a 50 mile round trip this is simply ridiculous do they realy expect me to buy another Alfa after this it was hard enough to convince the Mrs to buy this one and after all this mess she says she will never have another one and tbh im feeling the same way Sorry Alfa but this is not acceptable, so much for better customer care ..after six new Alfa's its getting worse

[DAB]

For what it's worth - my 159 1.9 JTDm SW on 18" rims did 30,000 on the original Pirelli P Zero Neros. I could have squeezed another 2-3 thousand out of them but they were becoming very noisy. Replaced with the same items which have now done 10,000 miles and still have an even 6mm across each one. I'm quite a hard driver and the roads around here (Glos/Oxon) must be some of the worst in the UK - perhaps, the civilised world. DAB

[Macie]

As mentioned before, my 2.4 159 Ti needed new front tyres after 7,400 miles (worn on inside). I had two new 19" P Zero Neros fitted. All settings were checked at Alfa garage and all ok. Tracking has now been adjusted to parallel and we will be watching closely. I rang Alfa UK on 00800 25320000. They have just informed me there is no problem and settings have not been changed (contrary to other reports!). If you have had a problem with tyre wear it might be helpful if you ring Alfa and complain and maybe they will look into it.

[David C]

Originally Posted by Macie

...I rang Alfa UK on 00800 25320000. They have just informed me there is no problem and settings have not been changed (contrary to other reports!).

We have seen a service bulletin for the Brera/Spider with the updated settings, but that is from Feb 2007, almost 2-years ago... so not a recent change, which may be confusing the people on the phones. Maybe they don't realise that the 2007 update hasn't got through to most people yet...

[BirdieKing]

Hi David C what are the updated settings and do they also relate to the 159? How would I know if my car (159) has these updated settings (other than monitoring my tyre wear I suppose) - it was first registered in March 2007 so I would assume the new settings would be on it (but then again, on second thoughts, assuming anything might be a dangerous thing when it comes to ARUK!! )

[David C]

I can't see why they wouldn't relate to a 159.
It is the same chassis with the same tyre issues.

Many many cases of tracking not set properly by the suppling dealer, so the only way to know is to get it checked by a good tracking specialist (not an Alfa main dealer!).


the settings are basically 1mm +/- 1mm toe-out on the front (so you can set to 0mm)
and 3mm toe-in on the rear.

[Alfa 4eva]

Finally we got a response from ARUK, They have agreed to pay for two new front tyres on my Spider They suggested taking it to Kwikfit etc.. but as my Spider has got to go back to the dealers to have its bonnet pull replaced Platts of stoke are going to replace them at the same time
What i would suggest to others with the same problem is not give up and to try not to lose your temper I've been close many times while trying to sort this out and also i think posting my thoughts about the tyre wear issues on there cloverleaf site definitely got there attention

[Pud237]

Congrats, thats great news. Now go out and scrub whats left of your old ones

[delta91]

my ti has just got 9750 miles on fronts. down to wear marks evenly but inside edge is badly scrubbed. My wife drives mostly so no hard driving there. Great car otherwise.

[David C]

Originally Posted by delta91

my ti has just got 9750 miles on fronts. down to wear marks evenly but inside edge is badly scrubbed. My wife drives mostly so no hard driving there. Great car otherwise.

As has been said many many times in this and other threads, get your front tracking set to parallel and they will wear evenly.

[Squadrone Rosso]

Originally Posted by David C

As has been said many many times in this and other threads, get your front tracking set to parallel and they will wear evenly.

Trouble is, this is not commonly known amongst Alfa dealers or Alfa UK. They should issue a TSB or whatever they are called these days!

[David C]

Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso

Trouble is, this is not commonly known amongst Alfa dealers or Alfa UK. They should issue a TSB or whatever they are called these days!

Someone posted one on here for the Brera/Spider with the new settings which was issued right back in Feb 2007...!
Almost 2-years ago...

So there should be one for the 159 with I expect identical settings on it.


Exactly the same happened with the 156 though. Settings officially changed to parallel in mid 1999 and cars still get set wrong now...

[159max]

got a 159 Ti that is 5 months old. 8000 miles and the insidge edges are virtually bald, still got 5mm on the outside though. Part of me cares as this sort of tyre wear is not accpetable. The other half says stuff it as the lease company have to pay. They can argue it with ARUK when i go back in a few months for another set. The tyres are p zero neros.

[hotalfagirl]

Not had ours long enough to give full details, but my 159 went in and chris V told us bold inside edges on both rear tyres where bold, but they could have been swap from front to back as it had two new front tyres on. Eagle F1s cost £130 each. Not happy! but still love the car

[Commanderfish]

An update on the tyres on my 2.2 Brera - my original fronts went bald on the inside edge only in less than 9000 miles. I had the fitters replace with the exact same type of tyres (Pzero R18s) and set the toe to zero. After another 5000 miles the new tyres are barely worn at all, and appear even across the whole tread

Original rears have done 14,000 and look good for 25-30,000 miles. We're hoping to get 15-20,000 from the current fronts (with toe set to zero).

Oh well, guess I'll have to wait a while for those Vredsteins - and the cash extraction that would accompany them!

[Commanderfish]

Originally Posted by 159max

got a 159 Ti that is 5 months old. 8000 miles and the insidge edges are virtually bald, still got 5mm on the outside though. Part of me cares as this sort of tyre wear is not accpetable. The other half says stuff it as the lease company have to pay. They can argue it with ARUK when i go back in a few months for another set. The tyres are p zero neros.

Hello mate, I know what you mean. For the environment's sake alone, when the tyres get fitted, why don't you ask the fitters to set the tyres to zero toe, also known as parallel, I think. This has removed the inside edge wear problem on my cars and others.

Can't be good for the environment manufacturing all these extra tyres! Once it's fixed you can feel a bit better about occasionally hitting the rev limiter for no good reaon

[159max]

Hi Mate
thanks for you reply. i have heard this is a solution. My question to you is this; Since getting the toe in to parrellel hve you notice any difference in handling characteristics in nirmal day to day driving? My Ti is incredible round corners but tracky in a striaght line (i presume this is due to size of tyres rather than toe in settings). My lease company are going to freak out when i take it into the garage this week with just 8000 miles and bald tyres. 235, 40s x 19s on p zero neros look expensive to me!! Any comments once change is made handling gratefully received.
Thanks
Max

[Tango India]

Originally Posted by 159max

Hi Mate
thanks for you reply. i have heard this is a solution. My question to you is this; Since getting the toe in to parrellel hve you notice any difference in handling characteristics in nirmal day to day driving? My Ti is incredible round corners but tracky in a striaght line (i presume this is due to size of tyres rather than toe in settings). My lease company are going to freak out when i take it into the garage this week with just 8000 miles and bald tyres. 235, 40s x 19s on p zero neros look expensive to me!! Any comments once change is made handling gratefully received.
Thanks
Max

Had mine changed at 7.5k my lease company insisted on Kwik fit doing the tracking!! they reckoned all was well
Anyway now at 11k and had a full wheel alignment done last week at a local tyre dealer who set the car to parallel, well as near as possible as with full adjustment the rear offside isnt quite there. Hopefully this will cure the tyre wear issue, but to reassure you the handling is as crisp as it ever was

[David C]

Originally Posted by Tango Indigo

Anyway now at 11k and had a full wheel alignment done last week at a local tyre dealer who set the car to parallel, well as near as possible as with full adjustment the rear offside isn't quite there.

I read that as that they set the rear to parallel too... hopefully they only set the front parallel and set the rear to 3mm toe-in.

[Simon156]

2007 159 3.2 Q4, fronts worn through to canvas on inner edges at 11,000. Still legal over 95% of tyre. Rears worn out as well, but evenly.

[Tango India]

Originally Posted by David C

I read that as that they set the rear to parallel too... hopefully they only set the front parallel and set the rear to 3mm toe-in.

Hmmm.........not sure about that. Is that what it should be?
I will have to check, so just to make sure, what your saying is the 159 should be parallel on the front and have a 3mm(or is that degrees?) toe in on the back?

[BIDET FITZAKAZI]

Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso

ARUK's Nick Jackson called again today to update me on my issues. Alfa claim not to be aware of any problems with front tyre wear I asked him to speak to his dealers to clarify this. As usual, i advised him to take a look on here but they are told not too. We had a constructive conversation and a promise to talk again soon.

I was working in the Alfa Dealer network when the 156 was launched, we had very much the same feedback regarding tyre wear on the inside edges.
V6 and 2.4 JTD model's were obviously more prone than T.S model's for obvious reason's.
Alfa's stance on this was it was due to the suspension design, which is meant to increase the negative camber on the corner that is under load to minimise understeer.
The 159 front suspension is of a simular design and i would expect more wear on the inside edge if the car is driven in a "spirited" manner.
18,000 mls is the average life of a tyre on front driven car's, the Audi A4 has a set up very simular set up, but i have found they DO NOT suffer to the same extent as 159 & 156 did.
I would be very interested to hear their response.
Also Fiat had the same problem on the Fiat Stilo.

[David C]

Originally Posted by BIDET FITZAKAZI

I was working in the Alfa Dealer network when the 156 was launched, we had very much the same feedback regarding tyre wear on the inside edges.
V6 and 2.4 JTD model's were obviously more prone than T.S model's for obvious reason's.
Alfa's stance on this was it was due to the suspension design, which is meant to increase the negative camber on the corner that is under load to minimise understeer.

But the excessive wear on the 156 was also due to too much toe-out on the front, exactly the same reason as the 159/Brera or any other car with too much toe-out for that matter!!

Alfa revised the 156 settings to parallel on the front in 1999.
My 156 was checked and corrected before I collected it new and I've never had any inner edge wear issues.

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by David C

Alfa revised the 156 settings to parallel on the front in 1999.
My 156 was checked and corrected before I collected it new and I've never had any inner edge wear issues.

Is there a way you can check it at home by measuring the distance from different points? Or do you need a laser machine?