Brera 2.4 engine stagger

Hi all. I see there is a similar thread running with the 2.2 but has anyone experienced similar difficulties with their 2.4?
Over the last few months mine has developed a pronounced 'stagger' at around 2000rpm most noticeably in 3rd but now also in 2nd and 4th gears during light acceleration. The car 'jolts' and continues to do so until a large change in throttle is applied. Only way to avoid it is to race around in a lower gear or chug along in too high a gear - none of which are great for town driving!!
It's been back to the dealer 3 times with various exhaust gaskets and other widgets replaced but all with no success.
If anyone has suffered this problem I'd be extremely appreciative of any pointers. Many thanks

Sorry, haven't heard of this one although some early 2.4 159's suffered from power loss, I think due to EGR or swirl valve problems. Also, some inlet manifolds have been replaced by a newer unit.

Your dealer should know about these things as they have been the subject of ARUK tech memos.

This sounds like the DPF doesn't it?

Have a look here: -

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...-problems.html (Aggghhhhhh more DPF problems)

It could be:-

EGR valves.
Swirl valve.
DPF issues.
Clogged injectors.

Do a search for 'surging' also. There's lots of info on here.

I got it on mine @ first I thought it was dirty diesel I have a 1.9JTDM I put injector cleaner in it and it seems to be gone so far.

Originally Posted by willow

Hi all. I see there is a similar thread running with the 2.2 but has anyone experienced similar difficulties with their 2.4?
Over the last few months mine has developed a pronounced 'stagger' at around 2000rpm most noticeably in 3rd but now also in 2nd and 4th gears during light acceleration. The car 'jolts' and continues to do so until a large change in throttle is applied. Only way to avoid it is to race around in a lower gear or chug along in too high a gear - none of which are great for town driving!!
It's been back to the dealer 3 times with various exhaust gaskets and other widgets replaced but all with no success.
If anyone has suffered this problem I'd be extremely appreciative of any pointers. Many thanks

Looks like one of my posts!

Yep exactly the same problem with identical symptoms. Does it constantly to me. Can be embarrasing when giving someone a lift...they must think I can't drive!

I believe it to be the DPF now that they have 'turned off' the sensor that alerts when its blocked.

Cannavar - thanks for that. Has turning off the sensor cured the problem??
Pardon my technical ignorance but is fixing/replacing the DPF a big job? After spending two hours 'kangarooing' around town yesterday this is fast becoming a pain!!

Originally Posted by willow

Cannavar - thanks for that. Has turning off the sensor cured the problem??
Pardon my technical ignorance but is fixing/replacing the DPF a big job? After spending two hours 'kangarooing' around town yesterday this is fast becoming a pain!!

No...turning off the sensor is what I believe has 'caused' the problem. Alfa had BIG problems with its DPFs and the sensors activating limp home mode and alerting a return to dealer. After 2 or 3 software updates they declared it fixed. However my engine stagger then appeared and when I had it checked I was told the DPF is blocked and that it hadn't recycled itself. I believe that as part of the fix thay have 'de tuned' the DPF sensor so it doesn't go off like it used to, so now you don't realise the thing is blocked, causing the engine to suffer breathing difficulties.

I can almost stall mine by running at 1800 revs in 3rd at about 30mph (at which point the engine is really struggling) and then pushing the clutch...the revs drop right down to about 500 and the auto choke only just cuts in in time to stop the stall. If I pull in at the end of a trip and sit stationary in the car the revs will often go from 500 up to 1200 and then back down again as the choke struggles to control the fuel flow adequatly.

Thats my very non technical view...I'm probably completly wrong!

No warning light comes on the dash about it when it stars to stagger and I also noticed if you stop the car for a minute and restart it is ok.

I have the same issue.

The car went in to limp home mode some time back and Mangoletsi have changed the swirl valve, inlet manifold, injectors and some EGR components - apparently £3k worth of warranty items. It has been OK but has come back with avengence (tonight on M56 at 85mph the rev counter was "beating" - Redex had improved the situation but even that's now having no effect.

So its back to Mangoletsi tomorrow to give Mr Antrobus the bad news that my lovely 159 will not be coming home until it is sorted.

Great car despite this frustrating niggle.

Join the club 166lover - major issues with mine too - been at Mangos for over a month now...
Ongoing situation with ARUK who supplied this 2nd replacement car.

I wonder how wide spread this issue is?

I'm guessing future cars will have more DPF control built into the drivers interface with %filled details and 'force recycle' button option?

Cannavar - this is a widespread issue with 2.4. Mangos confirmed this.

Update - took it to Mangos on Friday and it went on the diagnostic tool and the data output found no issue. Irritatingly and true to form the car has been absolutely fine since the issue on the M56 the other night, though I've got a lot of miles to do tomorrow so let's see. Mangos want the car for a for a few days next week to see if they can recreate the issue and get data download by getting real time output from ECU. That way they can suggest fixes and get warranty approvals.

The car has all the ECU update, Swirl Valve , inlet manifold, injectors, and revised EGR. The technician suggested ECU may be faulty but unless they can recreate the issue and get data from ECU they can't do a great deal. He doubts its DPF-related but other source could be the new type of inlet manifold - are swirl valves still "sticking"?

This is where I feel sorry for Mangos and other dealers - they have a customer coming back several times, they have to provide a courtesy car and they are getting conflicting advice from AR on suggested fixes. AR should have sorted this issue by now.

Most interesting thing I can find is that BP Ultimate and additives such as Redex Diesel treatment seem to improve smoothness and reduce "stagger". This is because BP ultimate and Redex increase cetane rating - I've found that Shell V-Power doesn't make any difference though this has same cetane rating as regular diesel.

166 Lover

Originally Posted by willow

Cannavar - thanks for that. Has turning off the sensor cured the problem??
Pardon my technical ignorance but is fixing/replacing the DPF a big job? After spending two hours 'kangarooing' around town yesterday this is fast becoming a pain!!

Willow,

As a short term fix/improvement, add some Redex diesel treatment to your tank and see if that improves the situation to a more bearable level until you can get it back to the Stealers......if you use Mango's ask for Mark Bullock in service and explain your 2.4 has exactly the same issue as Tim Colehan's 159.

Rgds
Tim (166Lover)

Picked mine up on Friday and within 2 miles I got this 'stagger'. Only happened a couple of times since and seems to be when it's cold.

Not a great start, but it's such a lovely looking thing I can forgive it (for the moment!)

I'm REALLY starting to get fed up with it...its worse when you have people in the car and because traffic is forcing you to do 30mph you either cough your way down the road or stick in 2nd and rev the guts off.

I'm really starting to get 'cheesed' off with it!!!!!!!!

I can understand - modern cars just should not have these sorts of issues.

I love driving diesels but I really wish I'd bought the 2.2 now. Cheaper and hopefully better (unless they have started to fit DPFs to them as well lol )

Mine now booked in to be looked at on thursday I will let you know how I get on.

166lover - thanks for the tip regarding redex - will give it a go.
Reassuring to know I'm not on my own here, perhaps Alfa will come up with a resolution to this problem. After another few days in the dealership to no effect I'm growing a little frustrated. Apart from the annoyance value staggering like this can't be doing the engine much good over the long term??

I agree can be doing it any good

Problem with the stat in my car was replaced under warranty the mechanic said that this was causing the problem also ran regen of DPF filter so far so good hasnt staggered

Originally Posted by vyore

Problem with the stat in my car was replaced under warranty the mechanic said that this was causing the problem also ran regen of DPF filter so far so good hasnt staggered

stat?