New Prodrive Brera S (now with multiple reviews)

Originally Posted by slimbloke

Shame the limited slip dif. is electronic - it's using the brakes all the time. I've heard this means the brakes start to fade very early.

Nice price for what you get though (internal options I think are already available on left-hand drive cars).

Interesting comment Slimbloke.
Where have you picked that up from?
I was led to believe this was UK only car.
Andy.

Originally Posted by Hunter

I saw a Brera S at Mangoletsi's on Friday afternoon. It looked very very good!

I saw it today and it looked very tasty indeed. I even thought £28k looked a bit of a bargain having yesterday configured a BMW320d ES online with a bit of Ti equivalent kit and got it to near £33k! I know what I'd rather arrive in.

Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso

Not so keen in the flesh but it's still nice. Exterior lose the S badge & the stupid mud flaps!

SR - I was the opposite - I wasn't to enamoured in the pics but thought it looked gob-smackingly desirable in the showroom.

Shame the Brera has no rear leg room.

Electronic Q2 is just a fancy name for traction control.

I saw a video of the electronic Q2 system being discussed by the Alfa design chief (Philip whatsiz name I think), and it really sounds just like a refined ASR that also does the same stuff using individual front wheel braking when corning to limit inside wheelspin under hard corner exit.
Presumably they have refined it a bit but obviously its not substituyte for a mechanical diff that
a) actually transfers power to the wheel that can use it,
b) no need for brake intervention, that can add to brake fade for heavy use - e.g. on track.

Its still way better than nothing, but if a proper mechanical Q2 diff costs 300 quid for a 156, why couldn't they do something like that for this model..
..and indeed as an option for the 2.4 and 3.2 159's.

Originally Posted by Wainey

Interesting comment Slimbloke.
Where have you picked that up from?
I was led to believe this was UK only car.
Andy.

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

Electronic Q2 is just a fancy name for traction control.

I saw a video of the electronic Q2 system being discussed by the Alfa design chief (Philip whatsiz name I think), and it really sounds just like a refined ASR that also does the same stuff using individual front wheel braking when corning to limit inside wheelspin under hard corner exit.
Presumably they have refined it a bit but obviously its not substituyte for a mechanical diff that
a) actually transfers power to the wheel that can use it,
b) no need for brake intervention, that can add to brake fade for heavy use - e.g. on track.

Its still way better than nothing, but if a proper mechanical Q2 diff costs 300 quid for a 156, why couldn't they do something like that for this model..
..and indeed as an option for the 2.4 and 3.2 159's.

If anything, that is the one big let down of this car. At first I was under the impression it was a proper mechanical Q2 diff. What are they playing at? Not exactly an expensive item

Originally Posted by Wainey

Interesting comment Slimbloke.
Where have you picked that up from?
I was led to believe this was UK only car.
Andy.

The Brera S is a UK-only car, as far as I know, but you can get some of the interior changes (the leather dash, for example) as a cost option on a normal, non-S Brera in other European markets.

Originally Posted by Oggy_GTA

At first I was under the impression it was a proper mechanical Q2 diff.

It's curious - in the Brera S article in the new Feel magazine, they say:

"Prodrive has fitted new Eibach sports springs and Bilstein dampers that complement the 2008-spec Breras, which now come with the Torsen-style Q2 limited-slip differential to reduce understeer, ..."

That makes it sound (to me, anyway) like the mechanical diff. But that article is the only place I've read that, so not sure...

Originally Posted by jamieboy

It's curious - in the Brera S article in the new Feel magazine, they say:

"Prodrive has fitted new Eibach sports springs and Bilstein dampers that complement the 2008-spec Breras, which now come with the Torsen-style Q2 limited-slip differential to reduce understeer, ..."

That makes it sound (to me, anyway) like the mechanical diff. But that article is the only place I've read that, so not sure...

Sure does. No mention of the Q2 (electronic or mechanical) in the specs on the website.

Well if it is a Torsen diff equpped car, they should shout about it.
I'm sure I have seen a number of other articles saying it is electronic though.
I would wait until an official Alfa tech spec is available.

I have no doubt that many journos would be confused by alfa marketings silly devaluing hijacking of the Q2 name to also apply to software only solutions.

A Q2 equipped 3.2 159 would make sense for sure.

I'm pretty certain it's not a torsen diff.

I saw a Brera S advert on the tv last night.

Originally Posted by Wainey

Interesting comment Slimbloke.
Where have you picked that up from?
I was led to believe this was UK only car.
Andy.

That's right, the 'S' is UK only - which is why I pointed out the internal options are for the left hand drive cars, i.e. non-uk

Fraser - I think so too. As JamieBoy says, it says 'Torsen-style', rather than just Torsen, who make the proper Q2 diff.

Originally Posted by jamieboy

It's curious - in the Brera S article in the new Feel magazine, they say:

"Prodrive has fitted new Eibach sports springs and Bilstein dampers that complement the 2008-spec Breras, which now come with the Torsen-style Q2 limited-slip differential to reduce understeer, ..."

That makes it sound (to me, anyway) like the mechanical diff. But that article is the only place I've read that, so not sure...

Originally Posted by Fraser

I'm pretty certain it's not a torsen diff.

Just read Autoexpress review. The car certainly looks nice. But it's slower to 62 than the Q4 Brera, while being 100kg lighter !!?? Must have serious problems getting the power down. The Q4 handles really well to begin with (OK, it could be improved, but it's far from bad) and could easily handle more power. Can't help thinking more power and the 19" wheels would have been a better way to go. Interesting to note that Autoexpress gave the original Brera 4 stars also.

4WD is worth around 2/3rds of a second in 0-60 vs FWD,
especially without a mechanical diff in the FWD.

Originally Posted by Pud237

Fraser - I think so too. As JamieBoy says, it says 'Torsen-style', rather than just Torsen, who make the proper Q2 diff.

That's the thing I found curious, though - they can't really describe a fully electronic system which uses the brakes to mimic the effect of a lsd as a Torsen-style diff, can they?

Maybe they can - next step will be the new 149 with "rwd-style fwd".

Originally Posted by jamieboy

next step will be the new 149 with "rwd-style fwd".

LOL!

Mangoletsi descibe the Q2 as and 'E-Q2' (electronic) and operates by slight application of the brakes.

I sat in a Brera S the other day (in Desira Norwich) and was staggered to see it's not available with the glass roof. That is so much a part of the pleasure of driving a Brera - I've dismissed it for that reason alone!

So are we all agreed that although it looks 1/2 decent, mechanically and dynamically it is NOT a step forward and it's purely marketing/money making spin to try a mid-life revival of the Brera