New Prodrive Brera S (now with multiple reviews)

Alfa, charging more for giving you less.

£1500 extra for some springs and dampers that probably should be on the original in the first place and no doubt will end up there in 6 months and some 19" wheels, plus they've ripped out 4wd, oooh, great.

£1500 for an updated 4wd Brera plus a supercharger would have been much more interesting.

All the stock brera needs really os more power and a better suspension set up, that could have been done here, they probably realized they couldn't get the guys at Walon to do the conversion at the docks.

YEah but no-one's going to give you a supercharger and suspension upgrades for £1500. £10,000, maybe.

Also, I really like the existing suspension, even if it is more of a GT than a sports car. It was a big relief after the GTV - you can drive the Brera for endless hours without getting tired.

Just because AD charges 6k for a supercharger its not what it would set a manufacturer back, a 500 production run of hot Breras wouldn't have to cost much, if a Rotrex C30 kit cost me just over £1k as a retail customer you can be sure as an OEM unit at those sort of levels it could sort it out for a lot less, OK £1500 might be optimistic but then again it probably isn't.

There was no way Alfa were ever going to be able to re-engineer the Brera to take a blower and adjust the suspension for £1,500 surely ? (although I agree it would be great if they had)

As for paying more for less it's not as if it's a new or uniquely Alfa-esque practice - Porsche Club Sports, BMW CSLs, numerous Subaru/Honda/Mitsu Type something or other specials......

I've got to say the incremental cost doesn't really bother me for two reasons:

1 - We don't know eaxctly what goodies have been added to the final specs i.e. do the cars come with Blue & Me for example, are they all in extra cost colours (Alfa red & Carbonio I think have both been seen) etc

2 - For those we do know about at OEM prices when combined £1,500 doesn't seem like there's a big mark up involved particularly when you factor back in what Alfa have had to chuck in Prodrive's direction for the development time/kudos involved.

Originally Posted by Pud237

Maybe so regarding the 2.2..

But 100kg off the 3.2 will definitely be noticeable.. As will a ~40% reduction in transmission losses.

100Kg off the 3.2, but now there will be no 4wd, so the car may not get the power down like the 4wd and therefore may not be any quicker.

Where are you getting ~40% reduction in transmission losses from? thats a very high figure.

There wont really be any problem getting the power down since the car is still very heavy and power/weight still below that of a GTA.
A mechanical Q2 diff would be the obvious thing if alfa would do it..
It will be interesting to see what independent tests (e.g. Autocar) confirm the 3.2 FWD figures at.

The Q4 system should allow more enjoyable cornering though since the power will be beautifully controlled - not sure it would be neccessarily be faster though due to the weight, which kills handling.
50% stiffer srings on the Prodrive Brera S means it should be pretty focused..

159 3.2 V6 Q4 Tranny losses are 35%, the 4WD drivetrain needs a lot more power to really make it come alive - I imagine this system would have quite a high fixed transmission loss. The Torsen Q4 is typically used in powerful cars like the Audi RS6.

That said the Q4 is still fast enough for most sane people

More details on tranny losses here:

Nieuwe pagina 1

Originally Posted by tony44

100Kg off the 3.2, but now there will be no 4wd, so the car may not get the power down like the 4wd and therefore may not be any quicker.

Where are you getting ~40% reduction in transmission losses from? thats a very high figure.

Road test of the Brera S:

"The driving experience is now up to doing justice to the jaw-dropping looks. The S is more dynamic and lively on the road and the steering in particular is a well-weighted, accurate revelation compared with the standard car. It’s also pleasingly balanced and sharp through corners where the body roll that blights the standard Brera has been dialled out."

Alfa Romeo Brera S - Road Test First Drive - Autocar.co.uk

Can anyone properly confirm the weight loss, whether it's 100kg lighter than the launch Q4 3.2, 100kg lighter than the current Q4 3.2, 100kg lighter than the current fwd 3.2, or what?

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

That said the Q4 is still fast enough for most sane people

No its not, my tuned GT JTD could hit 100mph in the same sort of time as the Brera Q4, it needs more power to justify itself, its just not quick enough, I'm not insane at all, its a disappointment.

You can't have driven one yet, the gearing is too long for the power it has, needs either a better ratio'd gearbox or another 50lbs of torque across the range to help shift it along, its totally pedestrian.

more power, a suspension upgrade along with those new seats in the 08 models, it'd be a great car no need to go back to FWD.

Jano must have been rubbing his hands in glee when the supercharger stuff didn't work out for Prodrive for whatever reason.

Alfa are missing there chance here to some extent, the car could cope with so much power.

Still I'd put you in a more "focused" group of folks than the average punter Sandy, current Brera is 156 2.5v6 performance level so still snappy enough for non track day folks.

I on the other hand have chilled out in my old age, and loved the modest GT 2.0 JTS I had a loan of a for a few days!

Originally Posted by sandys

more power, a suspension upgrade along with those new seats in the 08 models, it'd be a great car no need to go back to FWD.

Originally Posted by tony44

100Kg off the 3.2, but now there will be no 4wd, so the car may not get the power down like the 4wd and therefore may not be any quicker.

Where are you getting ~40% reduction in transmission losses from? thats a very high figure.

I'm getting the ~40% transmission losses figure from:

Brera 3.2 Q4 260bhp at fly, 33% loss through the transmission = 174.2bhp at the wheels, a loss of 85.8bhp.

3.2 FWD, 260bhp at the fly, 20% loss through the transmission = 208bhp at the wheels, a loss of 52bhp

52 / 85.8 =~ 60%, hence a 40% reduction in transmission losses.

Alfa Romeo Brera S - Road Test First Drive - Autocar.co.uk

Looks like another 'honest' Johnny on the 149. No data available
I hear so much crap from people who've never had the privelige of hustling a well run in 3.2 4x4 through twisty lanes or using the fantasticly flexible 2nd gear. The car also has enough power to leave most others for dead at the lights and is an accomplished m/way cruiser. The key to this car is balance - get it right on entry to a corner (and it ain't that hard) and it will shoot out like a thing of a shiny shovel with all 4 wheel grabbing every bit of available traction through the clever electronics. Any FWD or RWD car would struggle in that respect. The bottom line is that you can actually plant your foot before the apex. OK, so that's cheating, but why else have 4x4 on a road car?

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

Jano must have been rubbing his hands in glee when the supercharger stuff didn't work out for Prodrive for whatever reason.

Alfa are missing there chance here to some extent, the car could cope with so much power.

Indeed, if I had a Q4 and the dough I'd be straight up there for a conversion as the Brera is a lovely vehicle thats currently just wasted potential in the hands of Alfa.

Perhaps prodrives Supercharged variant is pencilled in for a GTA or SS badge?

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

Still I'd put you in a more "focused" group of folks than the average punter Sandy, current Brera is 156 2.5v6 performance level so still snappy enough for non track day folks.

Not really, I just think a 30k (well almost) GT/sports coupe sould be quicker than your average family saloon/hatchback and have a driving experience to match its looks, sounds like this S might deliver on some of that but too me it seems a step abckwards, Alfa should have improved the range, guess they are waiting for the new engines to do a proper job.

Originally Posted by sandys

Alfa, charging more for giving you less

Most manufacturers do that now with their cars' "light" versions.

Originally Posted by sandys

Alfa, charging more for giving you less.

£1500 extra for some springs and dampers that probably should be on the original in the first place and no doubt will end up there in 6 months and some 19" wheels, plus they've ripped out 4wd, oooh, great.

£1500 for an updated 4wd Brera plus a supercharger would have been much more interesting.

All the stock brera needs really os more power and a better suspension set up, that could have been done here, they probably realized they couldn't get the guys at Walon to do the conversion at the docks.

Should we not reserve judgement until we have driven one? I am told by my MD who drive the car yesterday that it handles fantastically well and certainly looks the part too. On a standard 2.2, 18" Alloys are £700 upgrade so you could safely say double that for 19"s, the uprated brakes will be more expensive and the suspension will be a cost and then don't forget the Leather (£1100 in the price list), Metallic/Special Paint (£400 in the price list) plus Sports Steering Wheel, Alloy Pedals etc

David

Originally Posted by DavidWhitton

Should we not reserve judgement until we have driven one? I am told by my MD who drive the car yesterday that it handles fantastically well and certainly looks the part too. On a standard 2.2, 18" Alloys are £700 upgrade so you could safely say double that for 19"s, the uprated brakes will be more expensive and the suspension will be a cost and then don't forget the Leather (£1100 in the price list), Metallic/Special Paint (£400 in the price list) plus Sports Steering Wheel, Alloy Pedals etc

David

David,
The price is quite good in comparison to a standard Brera although you could probably discount a standard Brera.
I think what most people appear to be disappointed in is that there isn't any upgrade in power.

People on this forum have mentioned supercharging but I don't know where they got that idea from that Alfa would do that. I think a mild remap would have been a help, something like the 1 AD produce.

I like the look of the car but I would have a major concern about ride quality, I'm all for reducing the body role but at what cost to ride, remember most of us have to live with the car everyday.

Can't believe the amount of negativity in this thread regarding the Brera. Can't we just look at the pluses? How anyone can say the Brera is not a sporty car, including current models is beyond me. Sure, it's no super car but it turns heads where ever it is for it's sporty looks and it's hardly slow. It handles superbly and is great fun to drive (I have experiance with the 2.4) The Brera is a quality Alfa Romeo, and any extras that prodrive put on with only make it even better. I can't wait!!

Originally Posted by tony44

David,
The price is quite good in comparison to a standard Brera although you could probably discount a standard Brera.

Not by that much on an 08 model

I like the look of the car but I would have a major concern about ride quality, I'm all for reducing the body role but at what cost to ride, remember most of us have to live with the car everyday.

But you won't know that until you try it, I to live with a Brera day to day

How cool does this car look on my drive?!!! (wish it was mine!!)