New Prodrive Brera S (now with multiple reviews)

Originally Posted by TallPaul

Just was the ad during the grand prix... what an opportunity wasted!

The 2.2 "Prodrive tuned" Brera S is slower to 60 than my old 2.0TS 156

I may drive my GT for ever at this rate, they have a last chance to get their hand in my wallet with a GTA 159... but as I have been waiting two years already can't see that happening anytime soon

Maybe that's why there's a 3.2 option?

Originally Posted by TallPaul

The 2.2 "Prodrive tuned" Brera S is slower to 60 than my old 2.0TS 156

I don't think the Brera was ever made as a car for great speed - the 'S' is more for handling as far as I can tell.

Took the V6 out the other day.


OH

MY

GOD



Tis fantastic, you really don't miss the four wheel drive, feels like it could cope with twice the power

Glad to hear it's not all that bad

If the online literature is true, along with the above drivers, and the Brera S V6 is now only FWD, id say that's a huge step backwards for an Alfa.

I can understand Prodrive wanting to build a lighter, grippier version of the Brera, but stripping out the AWD system as a starting point seems a bit silly a way to getting grip while saving weight. You get one but screw the other.. Not to mention what it must do to the overall weight distribution, and driving characteristics.

Since this is an Alfa/Prodrive co-op, Is this Alfa's first sign they're eventually dropping the heavier AWD platform?

It's only a 500 unit limited run, I don't think it is a sign of Alfa dropping the AWD system.

Originally Posted by PaulyCC

I can understand Prodrive wanting to build a lighter, grippier version of the Brera, but stripping out the AWD system as a starting point seems a bit silly a way to getting grip while saving weight. You get one but screw the other.. Not to mention what it must do to the overall weight distribution, and driving characteristics.

Prodrive haven't stripped out the AWD system, though - they've just used the FWD version of the V6 as the base for the Brera S V6.

The people who have actually driven the Brera S seem to think it's improved the driving characteristics.

I'd say it now handles as well as my 205 now

Originally Posted by PaulyCC

If the online literature is true, along with the above drivers, and the Brera S V6 is now only FWD, id say that's a huge step backwards for an Alfa.

I can understand Prodrive wanting to build a lighter, grippier version of the Brera, but stripping out the AWD system as a starting point seems a bit silly a way to getting grip while saving weight. You get one but screw the other.. Not to mention what it must do to the overall weight distribution, and driving characteristics.

Since this is an Alfa/Prodrive co-op, Is this Alfa's first sign they're eventually dropping the heavier AWD platform?

The 156/147/166/GT/GTV all took 240/250bhp through the front wheels alone.. And with an even bigger weight and wider tyres traction shouldn't be more of an issue in the Brera. The e-Q2 might help too, although I reckon a proper mechanical Q2 would have been better..

The AWD system is now and option on both the 2.4 and 3.2. So you can either have it, or not, on a normal Brera. The S is FWD only.

Originally Posted by BigFoot

It's only a 500 unit limited run, I don't think it is a sign of Alfa dropping the AWD system.

As above, its an option on the standard Brera now. 3.2 FWD or 3.2 AWD.

Originally Posted by jamieboy

Prodrive haven't stripped out the AWD system, though - they've just used the FWD version of the V6 as the base for the Brera S V6.

The people who have actually driven the Brera S seem to think it's improved the driving characteristics.

Its no use hypothesising. Either read what people who have driven it have said, or drive it yourself, and then make your mind up. I believe a 156 or 147 GTA would run rings around a standard Brera 3.2 AWD, but probably a lot less so against the Brera S 3.2, but as I haven't driven one I wouldn't like to say with any certainty whether I think its a backwards step or not.

Originally Posted by jamieboy

Prodrive haven't stripped out the AWD system, though - they've just used the FWD version of the V6 as the base for the Brera S V6.

Originally Posted by Pud237

The AWD system is now and option on both the 2.4 and 3.2. So you can either have it, or not, on a normal Brera. The S is FWD only.

As above, its an option on the standard Brera now. 3.2 FWD or 3.2 AWD.

Hmm it's interesting you've implied the 3.2 V6 Brera from Alfa has come with FWD previously, you can go to Alfa UK and see the only non Q4 3.2 option is the newly added Prodrive Brera S.. Which was the point of my post.. It wasn't an "option" previously. I don't believe. If it were, I either missed that or blocked it from memory.. Can someone else confirm this? I'll put it simply, I have never heard that claim, a 3.2 Brera with FWD, until the Prodrive Brera S. heh

It's a bit important to differentiate this point since there are other countries which receive the 3.2 Brera (I'll say Q4 for now, although i thought it always came Q4, heh) but not the UK only Prodrive S...

Jamieboy says, Prodrive hasn't stripped out the AWD system, they're just using a FWD "version" of the V6... It's been printed, they haven't altered the engine, and we know they've saved 100kg. The only weight saving can be in stripping the rear bits... So I would say they've done exactly that... they've stripped the already good AWD system using the same engine... Guessing is fine, but make a point you're guessing. I know it wouldn't make for a huge deal if the car performs, but I would question whether this is a sneaky start to something... I would also question any company that rids a great system, Q4, power to the most important wheels, in order to save weight. It's actually baffling or maybe it's quite telling...

I'm not debating whether FWD is better or worse, To any laymen it's quite clear that only putting power down through the same wheels which are steering can cause "issues". It's a matter of physics. Yes I'm well aware of Alfa's history, their amazing feats with front suspensions... I'm aware the Stig took the AD 3.7 147GTA around quicker then the M3 E46, etc. I think there are cons to AWD of course too..

I was trying to get a matter of record.. and to say heed caution as to what this limited run of 500 could ACTUALLY mean for the future of Alfa.. with a possible GTA on the horizon.. cough. You thought putting the Q2 was a mandatory with the last generation GTA's, wait until you get 400+ HP which is what the GTA would need to compete, M3, RS4...

I can only tell you that the saving grace of Alfa in a return to the US is that a good AWD "option" is there. if that were gone, in place a FWD only system, it would go into the category of Honda's and Toyota's, yea it would be that rough.. it would be in competition with Audi..BMW. of course, but to the enthusiasts it would be a big snag. I know us Yanks are silly, but I can assure you that is what would happen. I can barely convince US enthusiasts that AWD is a nice alternative to RWD.. Although I try.

Originally Posted by PaulyCC

Hmm it's interesting you've implied the 3.2 V6 Brera from Alfa has come with FWD previously, you can go to Alfa UK and see the only non Q4 3.2 option is the newly added Prodrive Brera S.. Which was the point of my post.. It wasn't an "option" previously. I don't believe. If it were, I either missed that or blocked it from memory.. Can someone else confirm this? I'll put it simply, I have never heard that claim, a 3.2 Brera with FWD, until the Prodrive Brera S. heh

It hasn't been previously available, the Brera 3.2 FWD has only been available to order from MY2008 onwards. That is what Prodrive have based the Brera S on, the MY2008 Brera 2.2 and MY2008 Brera 3.2 FWD. The saving of 100kg - I have heard a lot of figures bandied about, so I'm really not sure how much weight saving is made. Is that a saving of 100kg over the MY2008 Brera 3.2 FWD? I doubt it, where could they lose that much weight? Or over the MY2008 Brera Q4? Maybe. Or over the MY2007 (heavier) Brera 3.2 Q4? Quite possibly as well.

As for a GTA - I don't think Alfa have any plans for a 159/Brera GTA. I think they will wait till they have a proper mid-sized saloon RWD platform, which the replacement for the 159 will be based on. They will focus on the MiTo GTA (or SuperSport?) and the larger 149 GTA in the near future in my opinion.

Not unless you have stuffed a 2.5v6 under your bonnet or done some other tuning it isn't

Even the standard Brera 3.2 4WD was about the same performance as a 2.5v6 156.

Originally Posted by TallPaul

The 2.2 "Prodrive tuned" Brera S is slower to 60 than my old 2.0TS 156

Originally Posted by PaulyCC

Hmm it's interesting you've implied the 3.2 V6 Brera from Alfa has come with FWD previously, you can go to Alfa UK and see the only non Q4 3.2 option is the newly added Prodrive Brera S.. Which was the point of my post.. It wasn't an "option" previously. I don't believe. If it were, I either missed that or blocked it from memory.. Can someone else confirm this? I'll put it simply, I have never heard that claim, a 3.2 Brera with FWD, until the Prodrive Brera S. heh

Not implying anything - just stating facts. The fwd 3.2 was introduced in the UK with the '08 cars.

You might want to check the alfaromeo.co.uk website again - it shows the Q4 and the fwd versions of the 'normal' 3.2. It has done since the '08 cars were introduced, long before the S was formally announced.

Originally Posted by PaulyCC

Guessing is fine, but make a point you're guessing.

That's a great piece of advice. We're not guessing about the fwd 3.2. You missed it.

Jamie, Pud's provided the info already on the FWD Brera being MY2008

Originally Posted by PaulyCC

I can barely convince US enthusiasts that AWD is a nice alternative to RWD.. Although I try.

Seems strange in a country of straight roads and floaty suspension

Originally Posted by BigFoot

Jamie, Pud's provided the info already on the FWD Brera being MY2008

Indeed he has.

I repeated it, clarifying that we were specifically talking about the UK market, and added the detail about which models are listed on the alfaromeo.co.uk website.

In much the same way as yesterday I provided the info about the 3.2 Brera being available in fwd, when Pud repeated it and clarified that it was introduced with the '08 cars.

Originally Posted by jamieboy

Indeed he has.

I repeated it, clarifying that we were specifically talking about the UK market, and added the detail about which models are listed on the alfaromeo.co.uk website.

In much the same way as yesterday I provided the info about the 3.2 Brera being available in fwd, when Pud repeated it and clarified that it was introduced with the '08 cars.

Will the Brera 3.2 FWD be available Europe-wide then? Obviously not the ProDrive version, just the normal MY2008 version?

I suppose its up to whether individual country's choose to import them from Alfa Italy.. We never got the facelift 156 V6 in the UK, even though it was available in RHD.

Originally Posted by Pud237