2.2 JTS hesitation - now with new IMPORTANT information & escalation details

[Ran Sid]

I have a 159 2.2 JTS that I bought used from an Alfa Dealer. I'm experiencing a need for higher than expected revs when setting off from a standstill and a lack of torque with some hesitation/flat spots low down in the rev range. I took it back to Alfa and they claim there's nothing wrong and this is a characteristic of the engine. Must say, If this is so I'm disappointed (and frankly sceptiical as their analysis equipment doesn't test the engine under load).

The 2.0 powerplant in my old 156 didn't share this "characteristic". Have others experienced this problem?

[Squadrone Rosso]

It's the same for everyone. Auto Delta do a map to improve low speed driving.

[simz105]

You need to get it remapped it will be much better i hear.

[Squadrone Rosso]

Why Alfa don't do a map upgrade is beyond me though!

[Nev]

Yup, This is how the car is meant to be.

The only fix available so far is to have a chat with
AutoDelta and get their super silky smooth remap
loaded.

Not a cheap remap, but I wouldn't drive a 2.2
for very long without it.

[Ran Sid]

Thanks for the advice, much apprectiated.

Talked to Auto Delta as a result, and Jano sounded very helpful. Unfortunately the fix involves a 600 mile round journey from the grim north so I'll have to wait for suitable excuse to visit the big smoke (unless the improved service promised from my local alfa dealer when selling the car includes taking it to there for me )

[Nev]

Originally Posted by Ran Sid

Unfortunately the fix involves a 600 mile round journey from the grim north so I'll have to wait for suitable excuse to visit the big smoke

You think you've got a long trip?
from: London NW10 6ST to: antibes - Google Maps




(And I had to do it twice 'cause my dealer wiped the first remap! )

[Ken 1]

Yes my 2.2 Brera is just the same, is there not any other dealers that can remap them.

[Squadrone Rosso]

I've learnt to drive around it but it can still make me look like Maureen off Driving School if I'm not concentrating

Filled with V Power today. It runs so much better on the good stuff mind you

[Trailbraker]

I'm driving a lovely 2.2 JTS GT at the moment (on loan), dont notice it being too bad off the line.

You do need to finesse the clutch a bit but nothing to funny I thought.

It is a little gutless low down in second, but I think 1st is very Zingy

The sound isn't quite as cultured as the T-spark but it has a pleasant enough burble, and certainly better than most modern mainstream 4 cylinder cars.

BTW did you consider posting your ECU to Jano, after discussion fo course
This was possible for GTA ECUs at least, but the remapping process could be different for JTS ECUs.

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

I'm driving a lovely 2.2 JTS GT at the moment (on loan),

Just to confirm - a GT with a 2.2 engine? Is this another Trailbraker special? Please spill the beans

[Trailbraker]

Doh typo, 2.0 JTS of course!

But I think the GT would fly with a 2.2 JTS

[Nev]

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

You do need to finesse the clutch a bit but nothing to funny I thought.

It's specifically a 2.2 issues.
The engine lurches around 1100rpm

To be honest you adapt to it by keeping
the revs away from 1100-1300rpm band
by booting through it or maybe dipping the clutch
and blipping the throttle when you feel
it going.


But once you've experienced a remapped
car, the standard mapped car is almost
undriveable in stop-start traffic compared to it.

[Commanderfish]

Originally Posted by Ran Sid

I have a 159 2.2 JTS that I bought used from an Alfa Dealer. I'm experiencing a need for higher than expected revs when setting off from a standstill and a lack of torque with some hesitation/flat spots low down in the rev range. I took it back to Alfa and they claim there's nothing wrong and this is a characteristic of the engine. Must say, If this is so I'm disappointed (and frankly sceptiical as their analysis equipment doesn't test the engine under load).

The 2.0 powerplant in my old 156 did'nt share this "characteristic". Have others experienced this problem?

I'm not sure this is right. I had the GTV 2.0 and moved to Brera 2.2 JTS. There's definitely a lot more torque in the low end of the 2.2, although there is one funny spot at around 1600-1800 revs where basically the power climbs really really steeply so if you come off the power abruptly the car jerks if in gear. What you are describing may or may not be normal???

[tony44]

I have the hesitation, and flat spots, it is a typical problem.
I can't imagine any other premium car brand releasing a car with this problem and not updating the mapping

[Squadrone Rosso]

Originally Posted by tony44

I have the hesitation, and flat spots, it is a typical problem.
I can't imagine any other premium car brand releasing a car with this problem and not updating the mapping

Agreed. I reckon they must be helping old Jano out

[Commanderfish]

Perhaps they updated the map at the factory between yours and mine? Mine was manufactured Mar 07. Was yours earlier?

My fiancee is getting a 2.2 Spider next month (so presumably around Mar 08 manufacture). Will be interesting to see if the map is the same as mine.

[Ran Sid]

I sent my dealer a link to the thread, before checking the poor spelling and grammar! However, they did get in touch and said in the region of 10% of owners comment on the problem and that Alfa still don't consider it serious enough for a recall. I'm disappointed at this response, especially as they consider themselves a premium brand.

[Fraser]

I'd send the link to ARUK, rather than a dealer.

[Nev]

I'd assume they've stopped development/support
for the 2.2 and as they'll be replacing it next
year they're just gonna let it ride.

There is so obviously an issue. They got away
with "you have to drive it in a certain way"
to start with. (I fell for it) but now there is a
definitive fix (aftermarket) out there they've
been caught with their pants down.



That 10% figure sounds like pure made-up stats.


I can't be bothered to do another poll,
someone else do it

[Squadrone Rosso]

Mine is a late 2007 Ti. The early launch car I tries was exactly the same. Seems to run a bit better on V Power and it smells so much nicer too

[metalgod23]

I recently got my 2.2 JTS used too last week. Now that I have 'learnt' the characteristics of the car and overcome the emotional surge of pride each time I drive it (mind you the pride is still there), I have started noticing the lack of punch in 1st and 2nd gerars. The car does seem so 'lurch' if the clutch is not handled with precision, when in second it seems like its losing power until the rev get higher and it takes off. I too have learnt (without reading this post prior to this) to work the clutch and shoot through the revs to keep the power up. I was thinking the injector was blocked or something initially, so got the STP fuel injector cleaner in the last tankful (made no difference). Been using Shell V-power since I bought the car last week and it seems to run better with Vpower. Just this morning filled normal unleaded from Texaco so see if there was a change and can feel a change on the downside.
I guess am going to stick to Shell V power henceforth and work the clutch until I get a remap done!! I was thinking am the only one with this 'problem' and making myself look like a numpty driver making the car lurch at lights! Comon Alfa, get your act together and sort out the real issue.

My fuel efficiency seems quite bad too. My old Fiat Bravo HGT 155 2.0used to return 30 mpg even when driven fairly hard. The 2.2 seems to be giving 25 mpg driven normally. Are others getting similar figures?. Is there a connection between the lack of punch low down and the fuel efficiency?

One more Q - Apart from Autodelta, how are Vtune and Angeltuning? any ideas chaps?

Cheers
Sub....

[AUTODELTA]

Guys
FYO, all the 2.2 JTS models apart from the selespeed versions have the same programme from the factory.

It is well known problem and well documented worldwide.
Because the 2.2 engine project has been completed by the factory there are no updates from the factory which is a problem for a lot of owners.

Owners who have had the Autodelta re-map have shared their experience on various forums and are satified with what we have achieved with our programming.

After testing over 25 different versions of the programme to try and resolve a number of different problems, I can say It was not just a matter of improving performance and fuel consumption, but the driveabilty and cold start issues are the ones people complain about.

The hesitation issue is the most common complaint and lack of throttle control below 2200 rpm is the one that really irritates people when they are in traffic.

Moving off the lights, smooth clutch and throttle control also is another problem, I can go on, but I am sure those who own a 2.2 know what i mean.

Most owners have probably have adapted their driving style to avoid some of the issues.

Jano

[Commanderfish]

Originally Posted by Nev

I'd assume they've stopped development/support
for the 2.2 and as they'll be replacing it next
year they're just gonna let it ride.


I can't be bothered to do another poll,
someone else do it

That's the problem isn't it? In relation to how good the car/engine is in generally, people can't be ars*d complaining!

[Nev]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

That's the problem isn't it? In relation to how good the car/engine is in generally, people can't be ars*d complaining!

But the AD fix is worth weighing-out
for not least because with all those people
looking at you while pulling away,
you don't want them to think you
can't drive.