2.2 JTS hesitation - now with new IMPORTANT information & escalation details

[Nev]

Originally Posted by Kaserian

Hi all
Just had a new 2.2 spider le delivered and had the same issue for a few days. Now it seems to have settled down is this due to ECU learning my driving style?

No, more likely you're driving "around" the problem.

Just try driving the car from standstill in a straight line
at very low speed/revs in 1st gear using only the accelerator
to vary your speed. It is almost impossible.

[Kaserian]

Hmm

Just took the spider out and did what you said. The flat spot is still there but I dont seem to have any issues pulling of from 0 so I must of adapted not the car Its a shame really but then on my 156 my 1st gear is almost pointless I believe the wife does not even use it

[AlfaStealth]

Reading this thread has got be a little concerned, I was also looking to remap anyway and Autodelta seem to be the guys to go to, but a bit far to travel. So has anyone had dealing with these guys?
What do people think?

Response Chips Your Local Car, Bike & Truck Experts

[Nev]

Originally Posted by AlfaStealth

So has anyone had dealing with these guys?
What do people think?

Response Chips Your Local Car, Bike & Truck Experts

The quoted power increase for the 2.2 Brera would
put me off.



I'm 100% happy with AutoDelta's remap.
Even though I ended up doing 2 round trips
to London after the dealer re-flashed my car.

[Commanderfish]

Guys I have been driving both my 07 Brera 2.2 and our 08 Spider LE 2.2 this weekend. I'm absolutely sure that the steep throttle map exists on out 07 Brera but NOT our 08 Spider. The Spider's acceleration is much smoother (but far slower, presumably as the engine is tight and the car is heavier).

So basically my plan is to get the 08 map installed on the 07 Brera. This sounds like a good plan, right?

Are there any drawbacks to getting a new map? Would it only change the throttle mapping or would it also change the lovely exhaust note and improved fuel economy and power which my Brera recalibrated itself to after 5,000 and then again 10,000 miles?

[AlfaStealth]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Guys I have been driving both my 07 Brera 2.2 and our 08 Spider LE 2.2 this weekend. I'm absolutely sure that the steep throttle map exists on out 07 Brera but NOT our 08 Spider. The Spider's acceleration is much smoother (but far slower, presumably as the engine is tight and the car is heavier).

So basically my plan is to get the 08 map installed on the 07 Brera. This sounds like a good plan, right?

Are there any drawbacks to getting a new map? Would it only change the throttle mapping or would it also change the lovely exhaust note and improved fuel economy and power which my Brera recalibrated itself to after 5,000 and then again 10,000 miles?

I think Iwill wait until I pick it up and use it for a while, given its an 08 car

[Commanderfish]

Guys I've had it confirmed, the map on our '08 Spider LE 2.2 is definitely different (much smoother accelerator curve) than the map on my '07 Brera 2.2.

In theory the '08 map CAN be installed on earlier cars, but at the moment it won't be because it has to go through some approval process (probably EU stuff). However, unofficially, it will be released eventually, probably via the dealer network.

Keep the faith and keep the pressure up

[AlfaStealth]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Guys I've had it confirmed, the map on our '08 Spider LE 2.2 is definitely different (much smoother accelerator curve) than the map on my '07 Brera 2.2.

In theory the '08 map CAN be installed on earlier cars, but at the moment it won't be because it has to go through some approval process (probably EU stuff). However, unofficially, it will be released eventually, probably via the dealer network.

Keep the faith and keep the pressure up

No theory about it, Alfa can install these maps physically. However, getting these changes in line with the variety of intricate policies and legislations that run alongside Automobiles is no laughing matter.

The way I see it is that Alfa realise the problem we all claim and are doing what any other car manufacturer would have to do to improve it.

Originally Posted by MrAlfa

No theory about it, Alfa can install these maps physically. However, getting these changes in line with the variety of intricate policies and legislations that run alongside Automobiles is no laughing matter.

The way I see it is that Alfa realise the problem we all claim and are doing what any other car manufacturer would have to do to improve it.

hello mralfa,
i'm with you.

[Squadrone Rosso]

Just an update. I discussed this along with the tyre wear issue with a chap from ARUK this afternoon. He said he'd take it to technical and get back to me. FYI, Alfa are aware of the issue!

[AlfaStealth]

Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso

Just an update. I discussed this along with the tyre wear issue with a chap from ARUK this afternoon. He said he'd take it to technical and get back to me. FYI, Alfa are aware of the issue!

Well done that man

[Squadrone Rosso]

Another update. ARUK are aware of the issue (unlike the tyre wear issue) but a fix hasn't been sanctioned. They are also aware of the Autodelta / Mangos fix and said I could have this done at cost! I've asked him to check on the Dutch situation and to see if the 08 MY 2.2 cars have a different map. Have been promised a call back to watch this space.

[Ran Sid]

So are ARUK now sanctioning the Autodelta remap and are Mango's offering the service?

[Commanderfish]

The 08 cars DO have a different map - we've got one!!

[AlfaStealth]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

The 08 cars DO have a different map - we've got one!!

Are you happy with it?

[Commanderfish]

Yes the 08 throttle map itself is very smooth and clean with no jerking, if that's what you mean. But the 08 2.2JTS we have is in a Spider LE with only 1,500 miles on it, and the car as a whole is slower than my 07 Brera -slightly heavier, softer suspension, body roll/scuttle shake and the engine is tight so not nearly as good as my 10,500 mile 07 2.2JTS Brera.

I actually think that if/when I get the 08 throttle map put on the Brera, I will miss the sudden surge of acceleration at 2000 revs! But it will be smoother in traffic and may be a bit more economical as I won't be obliged to push the revs past 2000 and control with clutch when moving slow in traffic - will be able to just lift the clutch at idle, thus saving mpgs.

[AlfaStealth]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Yes the 08 throttle map itself is very smooth and clean with no jerking, if that's what you mean. But the 08 2.2JTS we have is in a Spider LE with only 1,500 miles on it, and the car as a whole is slower than my 07 Brera -slightly heavier, softer suspension, body roll/scuttle shake and the engine is tight so not nearly as good as my 10,500 mile 07 2.2JTS Brera.

I actually think that if/when I get the 08 throttle map put on the Brera, I will miss the sudden surge of acceleration at 2000 revs! But it will be smoother in traffic and may be a bit more economical as I won't be obliged to push the revs past 2000 and control with clutch when moving slow in traffic - will be able to just lift the clutch at idle, thus saving mpgs.

Cheers for the info, can't wait to drive it now

[caradoc]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Yes the 08 throttle map itself is very smooth and clean with no jerking, if that's what you mean. But the 08 2.2JTS we have is in a Spider LE with only 1,500 miles on it, and the car as a whole is slower than my 07 Brera -slightly heavier, softer suspension, body roll/scuttle shake and the engine is tight so not nearly as good as my 10,500 mile 07 2.2JTS Brera.

I actually think that if/when I get the 08 throttle map put on the Brera, I will miss the sudden surge of acceleration at 2000 revs! But it will be smoother in traffic and may be a bit more economical as I won't be obliged to push the revs past 2000 and control with clutch when moving slow in traffic - will be able to just lift the clutch at idle, thus saving mpgs.

Is this common with all 2.2 LE's? Mine feels just like the Brera I had. Can't detect much difference to be honest.

[Commanderfish]

I don't know. There is a big difference between our 2 cars, you would definitely notice the difference; this suggests your LE has the original map.

[gregch]

Originally Posted by caradoc

Is this common with all 2.2 LE's? Mine feels just like the Brera I had. Can't detect much difference to be honest.

Our Spider LE definitely has the issue...

[Squadrone Rosso]

OK guys & gals. Listen up, this is IMPORTANT regarding your hesitation issue.

I've been liaising with a very amenable chap called Nick Jackson at ARUK.

We've had numerous very constructive conversations regarding the hesitation & tyre wear issues plus general talk regarding AO, the constructive threads on here that would give them excellent real feedback (PDI, Dealer recommendations etc.) on how well (or sometimes not) Alfa SPa, ARUK and its dealers are performing.

To cut to the quick, I have advised Nick that Alfa Holland are using the AD map as a free upgrade on 2.2 cars to cure the hesitation / torque hole at 1750 - 2050 RPM, plus giving the engine greater flexibility and fuel efficiency.

I have also stated that Mango's offer said map as a cost to customer cure and I have made my feelings very clear about this.

Nick stated that whilst aware of the issue & the map, the AD map is not sanctioned by Alfa but can be done if you want (at cost) without affecting your warranty.

Now for the important bit.

What we all need to do is contact ARUK Customer Services on 00800 25320000, state that me (Simon Addison) has been speaking with Nick Jackson, report the hesitation issue, state that you are aware ARUK and dealers know of the fault and that you know there is a map available as a cure (but unsanctioned but at cost) and that you want a case number (record it) for your call and a subsequent solution to the fault.

The same applies to tyre wear so I'll post the same on that thread.

Hope this is welcome news as there could be some light at the end of the tunnel for us 2.2ers

Cheers,

Simon

[AlfaStealth]

Well done and very proactive work, thanks

I pick mine up this week, does this mean the 08 models dont have a different map as suggested?

[Squadrone Rosso]

Originally Posted by AlfaStealth

Well done and very proactive work, thanks

I pick mine up this week, does this mean the 08 models don't have a different map as suggested?

Seemingly, 08 models have not been changed according to ARUK technical

[AlfaStealth]

Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso

Seemingly, 08 models have not been changed according to ARUK technical

Ok then, after collection I will give it a couple of days to find out what you guy's are talking about, then will make the call or threaten to reject the car unless its resolved quickley. I did intend to get a new map for a bit more power but NOT to fix an Alfa problem

How has this gone on so long, maybe we sould have a club visit on mass and fill their car park.

Thinking about it now, rather than possibly rejecting the car maybe I shouldn't pick it up in the first place, no no thats silly