2.2 JTS hesitation - now with new IMPORTANT information & escalation details

welcome,
i have a 2.2 159 and it only gets better and better.
i really don't know what the crying is all about...

[Nev]

Originally Posted by 68alfa

i really don't know what the crying is all about...

If you are one of the so far small minority who
has no issues then good on you.

However if you go and look at the poll in the Engines
lounge you will see that +90% of people on here who
responded to the poll have/had an issue with the engine.

So that's basically what the crying is about.

[Commanderfish]

Well yes, I am one of the people on the poll who has an issue with the 2.2 - specifically the slightly odd mapping which should have been done better at the factory and should be replaced, but let me be very clear, even with the dodgy map it is a fantastic engine and a joy to drive. I did 600 miles to Cornwall and back this weekend, and it is a great powerplant in a wonderful sports cruiser.

Of course I still expect Alfa to sort the map *nudge poke nudge*

[caradoc]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Well yes, I am one of the people on the poll who has an issue with the 2.2 - specifically the slightly odd mapping which should have been done better at the factory and should be replaced, but let me be very clear, even with the dodgy map it is a fantastic engine and a joy to drive. I did 600 miles to Cornwall and back this weekend, and it is a great powerplant in a wonderful sports cruiser.

Of course I still expect Alfa to sort the map *nudge poke nudge*

Seconded

[tony44]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Well yes, I am one of the people on the poll who has an issue with the 2.2 - specifically the slightly odd mapping which should have been done better at the factory and should be replaced, but let me be very clear, even with the dodgy map it is a fantastic engine and a joy to drive. I did 600 miles to Cornwall and back this weekend, and it is a great powerplant in a wonderful sports cruiser.

Of course I still expect Alfa to sort the map *nudge poke nudge*

Agreed

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Well yes, I am one of the people on the poll who has an issue with the 2.2 - specifically the slightly odd mapping which should have been done better at the factory and should be replaced, but let me be very clear, even with the dodgy map it is a fantastic engine and a joy to drive. I did 600 miles to Cornwall and back this weekend, and it is a great powerplant in a wonderful sports cruiser.

Of course I still expect Alfa to sort the map *nudge poke nudge*

It would be nice

[Jcochrane81]

'Nudge poke nudge'. That explains it exactly! Bloody agrivating to say the least. How can you not notice it 68? You must have lead feet.

Originally Posted by Jcochrane81

'Nudge poke nudge'. That explains it exactly! Bloody agrivating to say the least. How can you not notice it 68? You must have lead feet.

i cannot notice it. she drives beautifully.

why is alfa getting rid off the 2.2 jts? such a superb motor - i love it...

[Jcochrane81]

It depends on what you've driven before i suppose. I had a 20VT before and it was much better than the 2.2 JTS. I'm not saying it's bad by any means but it could (and can apparently with the re-map) deliver it's power smoother. It's still a little under powered for a 2.2 in my opinion (but that counts for nothing)

Enjoy your car anyway, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

[NordicI55]

2.2JTS engine is a real gem, no oil use, no belts to worry about and very strong and smooth "in gear" performance. I have not noticed any major hesitation issue, sometimes I get a unexpected power surge but I have put that down to my insensitive use of the fly by wire trottle.

[Jcochrane81]

'Fly by wire', you sure you aint driving a Tornado . Oil usage and belt problems souldn't be a problem with any good engine mate, as i said you're comparing it to not so great engines, dare i say, that Alfa have used in the past maybe? Compare it to a decent engine in other cars costing +£20,000 and it isn't really that great. Thats just my opinion anyway, if you think it's great then enjoy it

[shinnoske]

interesting thing with my new car.
i don't think there is hesitation,
but my wife was driving it last night and she thinks there is!
can it be a matter of driving style?

and walfa, i will drop by the forum you suggested later

[Nev]

Originally Posted by Jcochrane81

.... I'm not saying it's bad by any means but it could (and can apparently with the re-map) deliver it's power smoother. It's still a little under powered for a 2.2 in my opinion (but that counts for nothing)

Enjoy your car anyway, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Jcochrane81

'Fly by wire', you sure you aint driving a Tornado . Oil usage and belt problems souldn't be a problem with any good engine mate, as i said you're comparing it to not so great engines, dare i say, that Alfa have used in the past maybe? Compare it to a decent engine in other cars costing +£20,000 and it isn't really that great. Thats just my opinion anyway, if you think it's great then enjoy it

really! can you list the better engines at the 20,000 mark?

i have heard nothing of the 2.2 being replaced.
can someone please explain...

[Nev]

Originally Posted by 68alfa

i have heard nothing of the 2.2 being replaced.
can someone please explain...

It's a dead-end engine (in terms of development)
that will only ever be in 159/Brera/Spider until sometime next year.

[Commanderfish]

When they say "Replaced" they mean that in theory the 2.2 JTS will eventually be removed from Alfa's new car line up and replaced with probably a 1.8Turbo. Alfa/Fiat are known to be developing smaller displacement turbo engines to provide the same power at a lighter weight. Even better, I'd suggest turboing your 2.2, then you'd have as much power as a 3.2
JTS but much lighter...

[Jcochrane81]

Well lets not get into a bun fight about it, it's just my opinion and i think i'm entitled to it. .

I think the 2.0L TFSI used by the VAGers is fairly good and delivers over 200+ bhp very easily and smoothly.

Let me say AGAIN that i'm not saying the JTS is bad but if you read what people have written previously, it could easily have been better.

I'm done with this subject now, lets move on and we can all be best friends forever.

[adwoodrow]

I just took delivery of my new Spider LE today and the 2.2JTS is a lot better than the 1.8T in my Audi A4 so I am happy, and have not noticed any hesitation so far. However the A4 has the old 1.8 which has now been replaced by the 1.8 TFSI and 2.0 TFSI from VAG which is quite a lot smoother. The 2.2 is not a bad engine but could have done with the turbocharger that is fitted to 2.0 variants of the GM engine used by Saab etc. The latest Saab 2.0T L850 engine is 200hp like the Volkswagen one.

Next year though the Fiat 1.8 in-house replacement for the GM 2.2 is launched and the most powerful version of that will be over 220ps.

[Squadrone Rosso]

Interesting AD but c200bhp is easily achievable from the 2.0 with some miles and a good re-map. No need for forced induction but if you do feel so inclined, Autodelta will put a rotex blower on it

[asbnat]

Lots being said about hesitation. Alfa/Fiat have acknowledged there is a flat spot in the lower revs. I've been in touch with them and they've confirmed as much.

There is no doubt in my mind that it's something that you can get used to but that you are regularly reminded about the problem.

But I don't find a problem with the rest of the engine. I miss my turbo in lower gears but the drive and power in 5th and 6th is loverly, the cornering solid and the eyes that follow when I drive passed confirm it's a beautiful car .

[adwoodrow]

Of course just about any engine can be enhanced for higher performance, just some have greater capability than others and I was talking about manufacturer's own upgrades rather than aftermarket ones. The 2.2 JTS has an aluminium block cast using a special process is not as suited to charging as the cast iron block that will be used for the 1.8 T JTS so we can expect to see an Alfa production variant over 250ps I believe.

[GRM001]

I should be picking up my 2.2 Brera S next week and have been in touch with ARUK about the hesitation problem and this is the reply that I got from Natalie Coxall Alfa Romeo Brand Ambassador. This seems to support the general impression that members already have about the probable lack of action by ARUK!

"With regards to your second query; Alfa Romeo UK are aware of this
characteristic. Should Alfa Romeo decide to investigate further, Alfa Romeo
will have to adhere to the emissions laws and standards and with the nature
of compliance regulations in all the pan European markets. We are unable
to release any modification without comprehensive testing and approval,
therefore we cannot confirm that a re-map will be available.

Please note, your warranty may be invalid should you develop a problem
associated with an unauthorised ECU update.

If you have any further questions, please contact us on: 00800 2532 0000,
choosing option 1, and we will be more than happy to help. Our opening
hours are Monday to Saturday, 9am to 6pm."

[caradoc]

Don't hold your breath - sounds as though Alfa intend doing sweet nothing!

[Kaserian]

Hi all
Just had a new 2.2 spider le delivered and had the same issue for a few days. Now it seems to have settled down is this due to ECU learning my driving style?