2.2 JTS hesitation - now with new IMPORTANT information & escalation details

[shinnoske]

well, i have just bought the 159 2.2 sportwagon TI.
it hasn't arrived yet, but i wonder if this problem has been solved for the newer cars...

[Lakeviews]

Being a very new owner of a 156 2.0 JTS, can someone advise if the hesitation described inthe 2,2 is "normal" for the 2.0 engine? I'm experiencing hesitation between 1st and 2nd and 2nd and 3rd.Advice for a new Alfa owner would be appreciated. By the way I love the car.

[Bill_Green]

By all accounts this problem is specific to the 2.2 engins in the 159 / Brera.

Originally Posted by Bill_Green

By all accounts this problem is specific to the 2.2 engins in the 159 / Brera.

...and the Spider.

[AlfaRomeo.D.E.T]

Hi ya guys, sorry to hear your problem with your 2.2 JTS, but unfortunately ther is nothing the dealers can do about this at THE MOMENT.

The reason being is because Alfa has brought out a remap AS OF YET as they have to comply with the emmissions and that.

This is a problem with this engine, hense why there are getting rid of these engines soon.

A remap from autodelta is working from what I hear.

[kustaa]

Greetings from Finland.

I have 11/2007 reg 159 2.2 JTS with 13 000 km on it, and basically no hesitation issue at all. I have used Shell V Power (99+ RON as in UK) and Denso iridiums from the beginning. All the 2006 cars I drove last summer on test drives had this hesitation problem, I felt quite horrified after my 156 2.5 V6.. It seems to me that ECU has been re-mapped for 2007 engines and maybe V Power gasoline might have something to do with it as well.

As an example, I can drive slowly on traffic (below 1000 prm) with 2nd and then accelerate with same gear without hesitation, also traffic lights starts are "normal". Naturally I can feel torque curve rising between 1800-2000, but I do not need to fear rpms below that. Of course it might be that I have just used to my own car, but I drove 2006 2.2 JTS on dealer last week and it had all the hesitation symptons we well know.

Does anyone else have "normal" 2.2 JTS, and have you noticed differencies with gasoline brands or other tricks?

[Squadrone Rosso]

Mine is a late 2007 car and it has the "hole" in the torque curve at around 2k revs Pulling off is a lottery too unless you concentrate. You either bog down or do a racing start V Power eases the symptoms ever so slightly. Come on ARUK, give us the Dutch remap

Drove the 07 Spider 2.2 (which I've hopefully just sold!) and the Spider LE 2.2, back to back, and I have to say I think the hesitation is definitely still there in the 08 car

It's curious that Autodelta don't publicise the 2.2 re-map ... are they quietly doing a deal with AR? Will ARUK soon be offering the same re-map?

[tony44]

Do you honestly think that Alfa are going to do a remap? not a chance.

Alfa have know about this problem since the launch of the 2.2 and done sod all.

I've received a letter saying that they are looking into the problem but as far as I'm concerned its just bullsh*t, hoping that we will all forget about it in a few months.

The AD remap seems to cure the problem but what does it do to the emissions?

Can you imagine the problems for Alfa if they do a remap that takes the engine outside the existing UK tax band.

[Nev]

Originally Posted by tony44

Do you honestly think that Alfa are going to do a remap? not a chance.

I'm inclined to agree.


I doubt it's changed much in terms of emission from a remap
and TBH I don't care as the first Control Technique (MOT)
is at 4 years.

[Squadrone Rosso]

If AR Holand are doing it with AR Italy's blessing, why can't us poor Englanders () have it

Knowing AD, they would have covered the emmision base no doubt

Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso

If AR Holand are doing it with AR Italy's blessing, why can't us poor Englanders () have it

Knowing AD, they would have covered the emmision base no doubt

Don't the emissions tests only apply to manufacturers? I'd have thought AD couldn't give a stuff!

[GRM001]

I am currently waiting for delivery of a 2.2 Brera S and asked the sales team in Poole about the engine issue. Their response was that there is nothing in the current list of PID mods relating to this problem. But also that he has done a few miles in the 2.2 Brera S and can't detect any problems himself.

Could the lighter car or exhaust mods have helped to reduce this problem?

[ksuri]

Originally Posted by Oggy_GTA

Don't the emissions tests only apply to manufacturers? I'd have thought AD couldn't give a stuff!

I can confirm that the AD remaps do meet emissions requirements, as I had a remap done on my 156 2.0 JTS 3 years ago, and subsequently a full blown supercharger on the same car 18 months later, and every year, it has passed the MOT with flying colours.
To be perfectly honest, this was a concern for me before I started the tuning and upgrading process, but Jano promised that the AD modifactions would be ok...and he didn't let me down.

[NordicI55]

[

This is a problem with this engine, hense why there are getting rid of these engines soon.

A remap from autodelta is working from what I hear.[/QUOTE]

Hardly a fault of the engine which is mechanically an excellent unit, as I have said before it uses no oil, revs freely and feels a very strong unit. I have not experienced the problem of hesitation (an Irish 159 2.2JTS built in May '07) but the hesitations as described are an engine Management settings issue hence solved by remapping. I suspect Alfa are moving to Turbo based engines for two main reasons: 1) they will weigh less and 2) as FPT (Fiat Powertrains) will design and build them (T-Jets), instead of having to buy in GM blocks etc, they will cost Alfa alot less. If Alfa are serious about Customer Service they should be tackling the issues described as a priority.

[milanotic]

JUst traded 2.0TS 2001 Spider for 2007 2.2JTS Spider with ony 150 miles. First time drove car noticed hesistancy at first island. Bought car from dealer in Poole , will contact ARUK and express my dissapointment.

Originally Posted by ksuri

I can confirm that the AD remaps do meet emissions requirements, as I had a remap done on my 156 2.0 JTS 3 years ago, and subsequently a full blown supercharger on the same car 18 months later, and every year, it has passed the MOT with flying colours.
To be perfectly honest, this was a concern for me before I started the tuning and upgrading process, but Jano promised that the AD modifactions would be ok...and he didn't let me down.

Nothing to do with MOT tests - they simply measure emissions at 2 engine speeds; the emissions for typing the engine are measured over the combined cycle.

yes. This engine lurch is pants.

but the fact is, My 159 lurches. It didn't start lurching all of a sudden, it lurched from the day i saw it,drove it, bought it.

I personally didn't notice this lurch during my test drive and am now rather peaved at myself. Really, If I were to buy some new shoes thinking they would break in over time, only to find that they were actually 2 small, This is in essence what is happening here.

I also spoke to Ben Head and he told me that this is how the car is made and that an improvement is being worked upon. On the mapping it was said that yes it works but Alfa Romeo legally cannot do it until a full analysis has to be done on the effects on other elements of the engine such as C02 emissions and the entire car as an entity has to be re-regulated in accordance with global legislations.

Government takes time.
This, is what is causing the delay on a recall.

[Echion]

Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso

If AR Holand are doing it with AR Italy's blessing, why can't us poor Englanders () have it

Knowing AD, they would have covered the emmision base no doubt

From what I know AR Holland aren't doing anything with the remap. Otherwise everyone here in Holland with the 2.2 probably would get it done.

[tony44]

Originally Posted by MrAlfa

yes. This engine lurch is pants.

but the fact is, My 159 lurches. It didn't start lurching all of a sudden, it lurched from the day i saw it,drove it, bought it.

I personally didn't notice this lurch during my test drive and am now rather peaved at myself. Really, If I were to buy some new shoes thinking they would break in over time, only to find that they were actually 2 small, This is in essence what is happening here.

I also spoke to Ben Head and he told me that this is how the car is made and that an improvement is being worked upon. On the mapping it was said that yes it works but Alfa Romeo legally cannot do it until a full analysis has to be done on the effects on other elements of the engine such as C02 emissions and the entire car as an entity has to be re-regulated in accordance with global legislations.

Government takes time.
This, is what is causing the delay on a recall.

I honestly don't believe Alfa will do anything about this problem. They have know about the problem for about 1.1/2-2 years.

[Hunter]

I tend to agree with Tony.

IMHO The cost to ratify a remap across the whole range both new and retrospecively means that Alfa won't do it.

I hope they will, for all your sakes, but very much doubt they will.

I'm having first hand experience of AR UK and know enough people involved with Fiat Spa Italia to know that things really do not move quickly - if ever on non-essential (read safety) issues on existing sub-model ranges.

Can anyone tell me if the 1.9JTS or the later 1.8MPI also suffer from the same issues I know that the 3.2 V6 doesn't.

[Squadrone Rosso]

I didn't notice it on test drive either. I just put it down to getting used to a new car

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Can anyone tell me if the 1.9JTS or the later 1.8MPI also suffer from the same issues I know that the 3.2 V6 doesn't.

1.8 MPI doesn't. Dunno about the 1.9 JTS but not many people have one anyway.

Originally Posted by tony44

I honestly don't believe Alfa will do anything about this problem. They have know about the problem for about 1.1/2-2 years.

For me there is always hope.

Realistically its not the mechanical fix that is the problem. Autodelta can fix it and so can Alfa Romeo, but to sell a car that may be illegal in some countried or prone to even more massive failures would be irresponsible for a manufacturer.

I do wish there was a more transparent view of situations like this however.

From what I can tell there is a communication break down between Alfa UK and the Italian factory/designers.

This communication problem has been the plight of the dealership and parts network also.

Once Alfa learn that all we want is to know whats going on, everyone will be a lot happier.

[Nev]

Originally Posted by MrAlfa

From what I can tell there is a communication break down between Alfa UK and the Italian factory/designers.

They can't even get the service interval right so
there's no way they will solve this between them.