Buyer's advice?

[DukeTogo1313]

Hello,

(first meandering post, apologies)

I'm in Japan, and a soon-to-be Alfa owner, and I'd just like some general feedback from people who know these cars inside and out.

Up to this point I've owned Toyotas exclusively - 3 MR2s and 2 Celica GT-FOURs. My last MR2 was a '92 with a 420hp 2.2L stroker and a zillion mods. My ST185 Celica GT-FOUR (which is still in the family) has a ST205 engine, GT28rs turbo upgrade and MBC. It's healthy at a manageable 275 awhp.

Anyway, this this isn't about my previous cars, I just wanted to post some background. I think I'm done modding cars, actually. However, I really loved the turbo + all-wheel combo of the GT-FOURs and I'm seriously interested in the Alfa 155 Q4. Actually, I'm interested in all kinds of Alfas, but that's another thread.

I've lived in Tokyo for 2 years now, and while there are plenty of Alfas to be seen, there are not many 155 Q4s here. There are, however, a decent amount of Lancia Delta Integrales on the road here - so there must be someone with expertise enough to keep those things running. My research up to this point has revealed to me that these are similar cars, mechanically.

What I'd really like to know is, in stock form, is the Q4 reliable? The general consensus among the Japanese community here is that the Q4 and Integrale are great fun to drive but maintenance is (or can be) something of a nightmare. It's pretty overwhelming in that regard. Most Japanese reviews state that their Q4 spent more time broken, than on the road.

On the BerlinaSportivo forums (where I've also done tons of reading) I keep seeing members referring to their cars as "money pit" and other names, but then turn around and say they are generally really tough and reliable. I'm having a hard time reading between the lines here.

I'm in a position to buy a fun car, mainly as a personal toy (I don't need it to commute), and I don't mind spending money to maintain a car. However, I spent way too much money on my last MR2, and also my first ST185 GT-FOUR...so I'm not looking to modify this Q4. I'm not looking to tempt fate and get stuck in another money pit. My last modified turbo MR2 was a certified money-pit, and I'm done with all that.

I really want something I can get in and drive, and I'd like to have enough confidence to drive it into the mountains on a camping trip, etc.

More background on me: I do not have a garage, I have a covered rental space. I don't have many tools, and I'm not really into wrenching on my own cars. I've changed air filters, changed the oil, changed tires, headlights, batteries - that sort of thing, but I don't have the space, or the inclination to fabricate my own intercooler or anything like that.

I've found a Q4 that looks great. If it's been maintained properly, should I get several years of mainly maintenance-free enjoyment?

For reference, this is the car I'm considering:

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Many thanks for anyone who read everything! I appreciate any and all feedback.



Cheers,
Duke

[unquestioned]

If you ask on alfa155.org there are a few Q4 owners with alot of insight into.

It is said the car is a money pit if not cared for properly, but that can be said about all cars.

[DukeTogo1313]

@ unquestioned:

Thanks for your reply - I will certainly check out alfa155.org! It is certainly true that any car can be a money pit depending on the situation, quality of parts available, etc. This will be my first Alfa, so I'd just like to be sure of what I'm getting into.

Cheers.

[rgwm]

There are only about 14 or so Q4s on the road in UK, if I remember correctly - and most owners do seem to have more than their fair share of issues - and they aren't a particularly easy car to work on, either, so I think you'll need to think pretty carefully about getting one. Unless four-wheel drive is a necessity, a good 155 V6 can take some beating, tho, and are generally pretty reliable.

As Unquestioned said, 155.org is probably the best source of info - but it can sometimes take a day or two to get registered...if you are going to use the same username I'll ask the admin to look out for you

[Alfa155 TS]

hi duke, I think your gonna find the driving experience of an Alfa far removed from a Toyota and love it. I would second what rgwm has said above, go for the V6 if possible. PReferrably one that hasnt been modified in any way. It seems 4 wheel drive is what you are after but I would strongly recommend at least taking a v6 for a test drive and then you might find your mind changing I drive the 2.0 litre and can highly recommend it but try a few different setups, each one has their own character

[DukeTogo1313]

@rgwm:

Thank you for the input - I'm really surprised to hear there are so few Q4s on the road in the UK! Wow. I guess most of them must on the mainland, eh? They are certainly a rare find in Japan.

I love the design of the 155, but I'm less enthusiastic about FWD, hence my attraction to the AWD Q4. Surely it will be more challenging to find service & parts here in Japan, but since it shares lots of parts with the Evo II Integrale, I may be in luck. That car's well-loved in Japan, and lots of shops in Tokyo claim to service them, though not cheaply.

I do plan to join 155.org with this username, thanks for the heads up!

@Alfa 155 TS:

I certainly do plan to test drive a v6 sometime soon, before making a decision, I'm in no hurry...though I can't wait to experience driving & owning an Alfa! I'm sure you're right about the handling, stock for stock, though a mid-engine MR2 with a nice suspension setup is also a ton of fun. But...my 2dr days are over (have a family now) and I'm excited to move to an Italian brand with personality and a vibrant community of enthusiasts!

Thank you both for your kind replies!

[arguti]

The Q4 is basically a Lancia Delta Integrale in drag and as such, the maintenance history will be most important. If the previous owner had cut costs in maintenance or the garage was not familiar with the car, you will pay for it.

The V6 or even a well set up twinspark is joy to drive and power wise, sure the Q4 is better than both but you really have to drive both before you buy either.

I have been alternating the last 2 weeks between my 250bhp 155 Q4 and a sorted 155 165bhp 2.0 twinspark as a daily driver and for general driving around the shops, etc the 2.0 twinspark wins hands down but when you get open twisty roads, the sound and the power of the Q4 is something else when you put your foot down.

Good luck with either, if you had to ask me to choose one of them, I would find it difficult but also wish to add that a well set up Alfetta chassis with RS suspension can give the Q4 a run for its money around the twisties in a handling sense.

Ps I only bought a 155 once we had kids and I needed a 4 door car and previously only owned older alfas (ie before Fiat takeover) - I essentially pooh poohed the 155 but it is a cheap really fun car to drive as a daily driver. as with any car, make sure the maintenance is up to date and you will not regret it. It is particularly great as a roundabout surfer and almost as chuckable as an alfasud sprint.

HTH

[DukeTogo1313]

@arguti:

I do appreciate this perspective, a lot! Thank you! Admittedly, Tokyo traffic is basically just stop and go, stop and go, one stoplight after another, forever. Unless you get to the highway (toll roads) or way out of the city, there's not much place to flex any muscle or let yourself run.

My NA MR2 was 140 hp, mid-engine 5spd 2500 lbs, and it was a fun little runner. Very nimble, and a totally different animal to the turbo car. Certainly, it was a much easier city car, and I can apply that same thinking here. I have driven a couple of peppy FWD Hondas, and while they were nice, they just weren't my cup of tea. I'll have to give a Twin Spark and v6 a test drive and see how they feel.

By the way - what have you done to get 165 bhp out of a Twin Spark 155?


Cheers,
Duke

[arguti]

Sorry, forgot to add that another reason why my Q4 is not so much fun in town is because with an Alcon Sports clutch, the clutch is very on/off if you know what I mean so not as relaxed as the 2.0 gear changes which are like butter.

2.0 has Autodelta uprated chip (Autodelta Shop) although to be fair, I would probably go for the squadra one.

also has BDA air filter so I suspect is probably around 160 rather than 165bhp but the chip definitely makes the car more responsive etc.

PS that's copper grease on the bonnet catch not rust!!!!

[Alfa155 TS]

hi arguti as a matter of interest how much was the chip upgrade? Did you have to make any other mods along with it or is it just simply plugging in a laptop and changing some settings?

[arguti]

was done by the previous owner but complete plug and play from what i have been told

speak to these chaps

155 2.0 TS 16v, Alfa 155 - Squadra Tuning