156 jtd ASR ESP ABS and VDC problem - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 7Likes
  • 1 Post By AussieAlex
  • 1 Post By sneaker
  • 2 Post By jwq
  • 1 Post By GuHKS
  • 2 Post By GuHKS
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 14 Old 07-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: still repairing the 156
AO Member
 
GuHKS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Morocco
Posts: 41
Images: 8
Lightbulb 156 jtd ASR ESP ABS and VDC problem

Hello everyone,
as I posted on my previous topics, I bought a used 2002 Alfa romeo 156 1.9 jtd in a very bad condition, I have spent on it so far at least 1000$ from steering rack and C.V joints to door handles ...
anyways I am pretty done with serious repairs now I'm left with electrical problems. the infocenter(when the display is still not fading -_-) has been showing "VDC system failure", "possible Ice on road", "ABS system failure". I also have the ABS light on, I've checked under the car and I found that the ABS cables next to both front brake discs are cut, I wonder if the previous owner cut them due to a faulty ABS unit.
Recently, I have repaired my "ASR OFF" button, but I really don't notice any difference, I don't know if it's on or off as the little LED above the button doesn't light up, and the ASR light on my dash doesn't come on when I try to spin the tyres.

I am thinking that the ABS, VDC, ESP and ASR are all controlled by one unit, which can be seen o the right of the engine bay and it has ESP written on it, I have no experience at all with alfa's and I don't want to take it to any mechanic as these cars are extremely rare here. I would appreciate any information given by you guys !
GuHKS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: Don't. Cut.
AO Member
 
sneaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Romania
County: Timiș
Posts: 118
Images: 1

Member car:

156 8v

VDC is just Alfa speak for ESP,
I'd imagine ASR cannot work if the unit has no input from the front wheels...

Don't assume the unit is faulty, replace the ABS cables (or try to repair?) and go from there.
sneaker is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 14 Old 07-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: still repairing the 156
AO Member
 
GuHKS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Morocco
Posts: 41
Images: 8
I'm afraid to repair the cables and encounter unexpected braking failures, because if the ABS unit is faulty, it may cause un-even braking which can throw you off the road. I will soon start traveling and I really don't want to experience such problems..
I want to figure out if all these systems are controlled by one unit, also the messages "VDC system failure", "ABS system failure" are they coming from the same unit or different units.

EDIT: I figured out that the message "possible ice on road" is related the the external temperature sensor, even I have bought new side mirrors for the car(because the sensor is located in the right side mirror).. anyways.

Last edited by GuHKS; 07-07-16 at 18:09.
GuHKS is offline  
 
Status: Planning summer upgrades
AO Member
 
AussieAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Aussie in Sweden
County: Stockholm
Posts: 779
Images: 12
Garage
Yes the VDC/ABS errors come from the same unit, the ABS ECU. I know this because in my GTV my ABS ECU died and I had ABS/VDC errors until I replaced the ECU. However in your case, given that the front ABS cables have been cut, I would advise to replace those cables first! They disconnect from either a white or yellow connector along the firewall either side of the engine. Get some replacements on there (as you will need them anyway!) and then try again. You will probably need to clear the fault codes but once they're cleared and with new, working sensors, report back here with what you've found (faults still there, disappear etc.).

If after replacing the cables correctly you still have fault codes after trying to clear them, report back with what they are! If they are for multiple brake solenoid failures then that would indicate the ABS ECU at fault. But get those cable replaced first and work from there as finding the correct ABS ECU can be a pain in the arse and there's no point replacing it if new sensors does the trick!
GuHKS likes this.

Current
2000 Alfa 156 Sportwagon 2.0 TS CF3

Previous
2002 Alfa GTV 2.0 TS CF3
1983 Porsche 944
AussieAlex is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 14 Old 07-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: still repairing the 156
AO Member
 
GuHKS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Morocco
Posts: 41
Images: 8
Thank you for your answer, I will try to find the cables(hope I can !) if not I will have to make custom ones one, I will post the results as soon as I can.
what about the ASR ? I don't know if it's on or off but probably it is off because the tyres spin when I quick lunch it(clutch - 3000rpm - release, wouldn't spin if less rev) and I don't see the ASR light coming on in the dash.

I am new to Alfa's and diesels, my previous car was a mitsubishi lancer and that thing spins tyres in 3rd gear shift, but damn the Alfa's look is seductive ..
GuHKS is offline  
Status: Don't. Cut.
AO Member
 
sneaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Romania
County: Timiș
Posts: 118
Images: 1

Member car:

156 8v

All of these, ABS, EBD, ASR and VDC (ESP) are just different functions of the same ABS ECU. They all require working sensors on all 4 wheels.

Well technically I guess ASR only needs sensors on the front but that's what you're lacking anyway.
GuHKS likes this.
sneaker is offline  
jwq
Status: Giulia Veloce AWD ordered
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
jwq's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 857
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Netherlands
County: Zuid Holland
Posts: 4,367
Images: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
.....

Well technically I guess ASR only needs sensors on the front but that's what you're lacking anyway.
It also needs the back ones, as reference

<snip>
The system processes the signals coming from the active sensors, the brake light switch and the button for switching the A.S.R. function on/off.
It continually compares the speed of wheels on the same side of the car (Front right with Rear right - Front left with Rear left) and causes the ASR to cut in when a speed difference in excess of 2-6 km/h (cut-in threshold) is detected between wheels on the same side. The control unit turns on the MSR function when it detects an excessive difference between the front and rear axles because the front wheels tend to slow down too much compared to the rear wheels.
The ABS/ASR control unit communicates continuously with the engine control unit via the C-CAN line.
The ASR function is active under all car speed conditions. Braking action is cut out after 80 km/h.
<snip>
sneaker and GuHKS like this.
jwq is offline  
(Post Link) post #8 of 14 Old 14-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: still repairing the 156
AO Member
 
GuHKS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Morocco
Posts: 41
Images: 8
UPDATE: I have repaired the cables, when I first turned it on the ABS light went off, it doesn't show in the infocenter anymore that I have and ABS failure, but it still shows that the VDC is not working, I have tested the car and it doesn't feel any different that before..
I hooked it up to a diagnostics tool, read the codes and it says that CAN communication doesn't exist with the control unit, also steering wheel position sensor is not working(for VDC problem) it also tells me that None of the systems associated with the unit(ABS, VDC, ASR) are working.
kept driving it for the rest of the day the ABS light came back on. any idea what could it be ? even when the ABS light was off I still got the error codes saying that CAN communication doesn't exist and ABS is not working.

A JDM maniac under the seduction of Alfa Romeo.
GuHKS is offline  
jwq
Status: Giulia Veloce AWD ordered
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
jwq's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 857
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Netherlands
County: Zuid Holland
Posts: 4,367
Images: 16
as a guess, I'd say the ABS management unit is defective ?
However, maybe first check and clean the electrical connections and earth connections to this unit ?
jwq is offline  
(Post Link) post #10 of 14 Old 14-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: still repairing the 156
AO Member
 
GuHKS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Morocco
Posts: 41
Images: 8
I will do that and post the results here, thanks !
GuHKS is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 14 Old 14-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: still repairing the 156
AO Member
 
GuHKS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Morocco
Posts: 41
Images: 8
All the cables are okay, I think the unit is defective ...
I've got one but I don't know if it's the same like mine (facelift 2002 model) or the older one, would it work for me ? I heard that older versions didn't have the ASR.
GuHKS is offline  
Status: Planning summer upgrades
AO Member
 
AussieAlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Aussie in Sweden
County: Stockholm
Posts: 779
Images: 12
Garage
Almost definitely a failing ABS ECU.

If the ABS ECU's on the 156 are anything like they were with the GTV then it is not as simple as getting any unit from another 2002 156! You MUST check the part number on the bottom of the ABS ECU unit. You may also be able to just use the information MES gives you if you can connect to the ABS ECU as it will list the model version but to be extra sure, remove the existing ABS ECU and grab the part number off of that.

Alfa used about 5 or 6 different ABS ECU versions on the GTV and it made it a nightmare when I was looking for a replacement when my GTV was throwing up these sorts of errors. I imagine the 156 is probably in the same boat given that the GTV and 156 were manufactured at the same time and shared some engine options.

So double check the part number! Don't just buy any 2002 Alfa 156 ABS ECU as there is no guarentee it will be the correct model for your car
AussieAlex is offline  
(Post Link) post #13 of 14 Old 14-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: still repairing the 156
AO Member
 
GuHKS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Morocco
Posts: 41
Images: 8
definitely true, the diagnostics software did prompt two ABS ECU models, I will make sure that the part number is matching, thanks mate!
AussieAlex likes this.
GuHKS is offline  
(Post Link) post #14 of 14 Old 20-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: still repairing the 156
AO Member
 
GuHKS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Morocco
Posts: 41
Images: 8
UPDATE: It was the ABS ECU, I have replaced it and now the ABS works, not sure if the ASR does but the VDC is still not working due to steering wheel position sensor, I will replace it as soon as I find it, I have traveled 1400km in total to get the ABS and some other parts repaired, including a stainless intake pipe and rear suspension
thanks for your help mates !
sneaker and mirlock like this.
GuHKS is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 147, 156 & GT

Tags
156 , abs , asr , esp , jtd , problem , vdc

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome