GT 3.2 V6 Alternator - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Status: Trying to make sense of it all...
AO Member
 
bernas68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Portugal
County: Cascais
Posts: 192

Member car:

2000 156 3.0 v6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramis View Post
I think my best bet at this time is through the wheelarch? I just can't reach the second 13mm bolt. Also, did you completely remove the alt through the wheelarch or only the regulator?
The upper bolt was indeed a bit tricky to get at, but I eventually got there. (to remove the bolt, you'll have to raise the engine)

The alternator did not fit throught the wheelarch (perhaps if I'd taken the RH shaft out, it could have fitted, but not like this), so I only turned it around, so I could access the back of the alternator, and swap the regulator.

I think my first approach was not the best. If I'd have to do it again, I'd go for the second approach (engine forward and get to the alternator from the top). But don't Forget that, as Giorget2 says, I have a CF2, so my manifolds are much narrower than yours.

bernas68 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
(Post Link) post #27 of 61 Old 11-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

Quote from dealer to change alternator and aux. belt: R 10,081.19

Only 3.5 hours labor, I am sure this will go up
Aramis is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
Three and a half hours labour doesn't sound too much. Someone who knows what they're doing, especially with use of a two-post lift, can do the job in that amount of time.

The price sounds like too much, though. What is the actual parts quote for the alternator?

Mine (mind you, that was two years ago) cost just about R1000, but that was just for a new regulator and new bearings and the fitment of these parts to the alternator shell.
The labour for the removal and refitment of the alternator was about R3000. I paid a bit more because I wanted it done quickly - would actually normally have been just about R2000 or so.

Also, why do they want to change the aux belt (I assume including all three pulleys too)? Unless the belt is old, it'd be fine to just re-use the existing belt. Alternator failure doesn't damage the aux belt or its pulleys.
If the belt needs changing anyway, may as well let them do it, though.
Giorget2 is offline  
 
(Post Link) post #29 of 61 Old 11-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

Alternator = R 6286.69
Trans Belt = R 924.67
Labor = R 2187.50
Sundries = R 150
Tax = R 1432.33

No, I had a look at the belt, it is dried out and cracking so I told them while replacing the alt. to also change the belt. I will ask them to also replace the pulleys while they at it.
Aramis is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
Ah yes, if the belt is cracked, replace it. If it breaks, bits can shoot in behind the cambelt cover and cause damage there. The pulleys cost half and arm and a leg too, though - be prepared for a shock.

I have no idea what a new alternator in its entirety is supposed to cost, but if you tell them to just refurb the existing alternator, you'd save a lot of money there.
It's unlikely that the rotor or stator would have anything wrong with them, and the casing itself can't "go wrong".

The only components that wear are the bearings (use heavy-duty bearings) and the brushes in the regulator (and possibly the pulley on the end). So by replacing those and bench-testing before refitment, you'd save R5000 or so.
Any auto-electrical place could do it. The alternator itself is a normal Bosch part - nothing weird or special.
Giorget2 is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 42,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giorget2 View Post
Ah yes, if the belt is cracked, replace it. If it breaks, bits can shoot in behind the cambelt cover and cause damage there. The pulleys cost half and arm and a leg too, though - be prepared for a shock.

I have no idea what a new alternator in its entirety is supposed to cost, but if you tell them to just refurb the existing alternator, you'd save a lot of money there.
It's unlikely that the rotor or stator would have anything wrong with them, and the casing itself can't "go wrong".

The only components that wear are the bearings (use heavy-duty bearings) and the brushes in the regulator (and possibly the pulley on the end). So by replacing those and bench-testing before refitment, you'd save R5000 or so.
Any auto-electrical place could do it. The alternator itself is a normal Bosch part - nothing weird or special.
If it helps, a new Bosch alternator is around 300-350 GBP. If you buy from the Alfa dealer instead of a Bosch agent, then its about 500 GBP.
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #32 of 61 Old 11-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

hmmm, the dealer says they dont refurbish only replace with original Alfa part and they won't take it out and leave the car there until I bring a refurbished one back since they only use original Alfa parts.. Also, the auto electricians don't work on Alfa so a catch 22 situation.
Aramis is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
The auto electricians who say that are acting idiotically. It's a Bosch part. What it is attached to is immaterial. Find other auto electricians who actually want the business.
I can understand if the auto electricians don't want to remove the alternator themselves, though. They are used to just undoing alternators easily after opening the engine bay.

To do that part of the job, find a reputable independent workshop. It's not a complex job to remove the alternator, it's just a lot of work. Any indie who has the tools and who has any kind of experience and is trustworthy, will do the job properly and for half the price of the Alfa dealership.
The can virtually guarantee you that none of the people at the Alfa dealership have any experience with the job anyway. They know the newer cars like the 159, Giulietta and MiTo (not to mention Fiats and Jeeps), and usually have little to no experience with the previous cars.

You could even find one of the guides on the internet on how to do it and print that out and give it to the independent mechanic to make the job easier.
Giorget2 is offline  
(Post Link) post #34 of 61 Old 11-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

You make a good point. R 11,000 for an alternator change is actually ridiculous. I will phone around tomorrow, maybe someone will be willing to do it, will update tomorrow.
Aramis is offline  
(Post Link) post #35 of 61 Old 15-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

NIGHTMARE!!!!!

Ok, so I phoned around, the only workshop willing to attempt to take out the alternator has failed miserably. Yeah, yeah, bring in the car, we will remove it no problem, yes, we worked on Alfa before, yes, we can do it. FOR TWO days, all they did was look at the alternator and decided they cant take it out and then they quoted me R 18,000 in labour to drop the engine and try and take it out.
After R2,000 less in my wallet and the alternator still in the Alfa, I have decided to give it another shot myself, seeing the only open spot at the dealership is in 3 weeks!!

If I do this myself, I will have to drop the engine forward, now my question is, what mounting screws I have to remove/loosen to achieve this? Can the engine then just be supported by a jack?

It CANNOT be so difficult to remove the Alternator by myself, if I just knew which mountings to loosen.

(
Aramis is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
Sheesh, that's madness. You paid them R2000 for what?

I've never had a workshop charge me for work performed that served no purpose in diagnosing or curing a defect. If charged for such fruitless work, I would not pay.
Giorget2 is offline  
(Post Link) post #37 of 61 Old 15-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

He was going on about 4 fuses he had to change, the time he spend trying to take it out for 2 days etc. etc. cables he refastened.....

Best was still the quote for 38 hours labour to drop the engine and take the alt. out, LOL
Aramis is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
38 hours labour?! Was he going to do a full engine internal rebuild or what?

I guess in Namibia one isn't spoilt for choice when it comes to independent mechanics.
Aramis likes this.
Giorget2 is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
I have seen someone, not an experienced mechanic, do the whole job on his car using only jacks and axle stands, not even a lift, in about 8 hours and the only reason it even took that long is because he had to drill out one of the fittings on the exhaust pipe which broke off because he was too impatient to slowly loosen the rusted bolt.
Giorget2 is offline  
Status: V6 Inside
AO Silver Member
 
ransoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 4,787
Images: 1
Not done the alternator myself but from what I can tell, All you need to do is remove the exhaust downpipes, Rear engine mount and subframe. Once that is all apart you then should have a large enough hole to drop the alternator down through. You can leave the wishbones in place and you can even leave the subframe in place but lowered on some blocks of wood if you want. Approx 2 hours to disassemble and then allow 3 to 4 for re-assembly so yes, you could probably do it in 8 hours yourself.
ransoman is offline  
(Post Link) post #41 of 61 Old 15-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

hmmm, to get to my downpipes and exhaust manifold I'd have to remove the plennum and rocker covers?

Do I completely remove the rear engine mounts holding the engine in place? how do I get it back into place after the fact? I have minimal tools here.
Aramis is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 42,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramis View Post
hmmm, to get to my downpipes and exhaust manifold I'd have to remove the plennum and rocker covers?

Do I completely remove the rear engine mounts holding the engine in place? how do I get it back into place after the fact? I have minimal tools here.
You won't need to touch the exhaust manifold. You undo the downpipes from below, 3 nuts on each end at the manifolds and 2 nuts on each end at the centre cats.

Yes you would completely remove the rear engine mount bracket (you can leave the rubber mounting in the subframe). You can lift the engine back into place with the scissor jack from your tool kit and some big blocks of wood if you don't have any proper lifting equipment, just be careful.
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #43 of 61 Old 15-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

Aramis is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 42,529
With the rear engine mount removed the engine/gearbox is still held in place by the timing belt end mount and the gearbox casing end mount. It just rotates around slightly, putting the plenum nearer to the bulkhead and the sump closer to the radiator.
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #45 of 61 Old 16-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
With the rear engine mount removed the engine/gearbox is still held in place by the timing belt end mount and the gearbox casing end mount. It just rotates around slightly, putting the plenum nearer to the bulkhead and the sump closer to the radiator.
So I loosen the screws at the exhaust manifold and cats, then the engine will fall slightly to the front towards the radiator, but is still held in place by the timing belt mount and gearbox mount, ok, I think I got that. Does it just drop by itself?

Underneath I should have wooden planks with a scissor jack? I have the normal scissorjack I use to jack up the car for a tyre change, will that be enough?

After I have done this, the alt. should pop right out,?
Aramis is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 42,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramis View Post
So I loosen the screws at the exhaust manifold and cats, then the engine will fall slightly to the front towards the radiator, but is still held in place by the timing belt mount and gearbox mount, ok, I think I got that. Does it just drop by itself?

Underneath I should have wooden planks with a scissor jack? I have the normal scissorjack I use to jack up the car for a tyre change, will that be enough?

After I have done this, the alt. should pop right out,?
'Pop right out' sounds a bit too optimistic, it'll probably be the worst job you've ever done on a car, its not at all pleasant. But its better to know this before you start than to go in thinking it'll be easy!

Essentially you should:

1) Lift the bonnet, remove the battery from the vehicle
2) Undo the top engine stabiliser
3) Get underneath, remove the downpipes
4) Support the engine, remove the rear engine mount (diff housing to subframe mount)
5) Remove the front subframe
6) Allow engine to swing forward by lowering the support

Then you'll be able to get at the alternator.

Autolusso Penrith - UK's leading independent Alfa Romeo specialist with branches in Bedfordshire, Cumbria & Dorset

Wizard Exhaust systems available here

Tel: 01768 879 171
Pud237 is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
It should go without saying, but: Never get underneath any car that can fall down.

This means:

Never get under a car that is only supported by a jack. Use solid axle stands that the car can't fall off from.
Giorget2 is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
Any progress?
Giorget2 is offline  
(Post Link) post #49 of 61 Old 25-07-16 Thread Starter
Status: Going fast!
AO Member
 
Aramis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
County: -
Posts: 446

Member car:

2005 GT 3.2 V6

Funny you should ask, yes, funny enough today was the day the Alfa went for her alternator removal procedure at a reputable, independent workshop who have by the way, told me a week before that they could perform this procedure no problem at all, yeah, yeah, remove the subframe I know I know.

Now, this came out of the mouth of the workshop manager at this independent, reputable, former Alfa dealership, a man recommended by the precious owner of the Alfa as well as other Alfa drivers.

So now the first possible appointment at that time I think it was a week and a half away, meaning a week and a half I had to wait for them to actually work in the car and get my baby back. Do you know how many opportunities,I have missed already because of this? How many women could have been had? Allot...so yes, I am spitting fire but wait....the best is yet to come.

So I dropped her off, confirmed the job I.e. remove the alt., see what's wrong, repair and/or get new regulator at Bosch. I was so joyful and happy the whole day, knowing my baby might be back even as soon as tonight, plans I made, dates I planned, maybe even as early as tomorrow, latest Wednesday, we would be together again. But alas, it would not be so....

I knew it might take longer than a day so I phoned them up to hear if they succeeded in at least removing it so we could get it repaired tomorrow but no, they "are not sure" what alternator,it is, maybe Porsche or Ferrari alternator. They will only know once it is removed. Hmmmm I think, if the alt. Is still in the car, then what work exactly have you performed on the Alfa? Are you telling me the whole day has,come and gone and the alt. is still in the Alfa?? "I ask "So you are telling me you did nothing on the Alfa today except LOOK at the alternator?.....Silence..........then a reply "this alternator can not be fixed, it needs to be replaced and ordered from the dealership" ...................I say :" My Iinstructions were to remove the alt which you didn't do, you didn't do anything at all, drove it onto the lift and looked at the alt.....he says he had another car to attend to........ am thinking as they stand and look they decide it is too much work....then I could have taken it directly to the dealership in the first place, pay the 11,000 and it would be done already,now I will pay more, that's why I phoned and made a reservation almost two weeks in advance, so yeah, there is an update and guess what, the dealer only receives stock once a week from S.A. so now I have to wait AT LEAST another week, week and a half I do not know what to do at this point I am speechless and floored, unable to make any more decisions....
Aramis is offline  
Status: +o-V-o+
AO Silver Member
 
Giorget2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 3,773
Name the workshop so others can know about this nonsense and avoid.
Giorget2 is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 147, 156 & GT

Tags
alternator

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
Replace with
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome