Autolusso Hybrid turbo CF4 147 & GT - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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We had a GT 1.9 JTD Cloverleaf on the hub dyno today and after a lot of messing about with the map

The power curve dose not look smooth but his is because this is because it was measured on a hub dyno which does not have the heavy rollers of a rolling road but give much more accurate data

How does 261.19 BHP & 396.78 LbFT sound

Ned
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How does 261.19 BHP & 396.78 LbFT sound

Ned
Like a new clutch, and set of driveshafts every 3 months

Just look at the damned power curve between 2500 and 2800 rpm!!!!!
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Originally Posted by Autolusso View Post
We had a GT 1.9 JTD Cloverleaf on the hub dyno today and after a lot of messing about with the map

The power curve dose not look smooth but his is because this is because it was measured on a hub dyno which does not have the heavy rollers of a rolling road but give much more accurate data

How does 261.19 BHP & 396.78 LbFT sound

Ned
Not Damien's is it? Need a rolling road test myself at some point.
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Not Damien's is it? Need a rolling road test myself at some point.
No it is not Damien's car

Big difference between a hub dyno and a rolling road

Ned
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How impressive is that. And that was with a car with no FMIC or WMI, or full free flow exhaust system.

Congrats Ned, awesome hybrid turbo package you have there. But i already knew that..cough cough. Looking forward to putting mine on the Dyno soon.

Damien.
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Soooooo.......

Do you have any plans for having hybrid turbos made up for the 10V & 20V engines? Also what about the TBi engines


I'm considering getting a 147/156 or GT, but was leaning toward a 10V 156 due to the extra torque and power but might be swayed yet

Sam
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Soooooo.......

Do you have any plans for having hybrid turbos made up for the 10V & 20V engines? Also what about the TBi engines


I'm considering getting a 147/156 or GT, but was leaning toward a 10V 156 due to the extra torque and power but might be swayed yet

Sam
Working with Turbo Dynamics we can Hybrid most turbos but pricing will be higher than this package as the R&D has been done on this, this is a massive power jump for very sensible money

We are planning on doing a package for all turbo Alfa's but someone with each engine will have to step forward for some R&D, thank you Damien on this one even though your car has not made it on to the dyno yet, wasted too much time messing about with clutches

Ned
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How impressive is that. And that was with a car with no FMIC or WMI, or full free flow exhaust system.

Congrats Ned, awesome hybrid turbo package you have there. But i already knew that..cough cough. Looking forward to putting mine on the Dyno soon.

Damien.
Would have done it without you so thank you

Ned
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Wow, much better results than I was expecting bearing in mind whats been said before, especially considering the car is standard apart from the turbo and remap.
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Wow, much better results than I was expecting bearing in mind whats been said before, especially considering the car is standard apart from the turbo and remap.
Talk is cheap, developing it isn't, I am not sure there is much more to be gained from de-cat or FMIC, even if there can the rest of the car handle it?

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Talk is cheap, developing it isn't, I am not sure there is much more to be gained from de-cat or FMIC, even if there can the rest of the car handle it?

Ned
Damian, I'm taking my time on this. You've trail blazed and I'm slowly following your trail of smoking tyres. Next on the cards is to be able to slow down as quickly as I got from zero to quick, GTA and brakes come to mind.

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i dont know how the hub dyno works out its hp data as i dont see any whp figures which would make it a bit easier for people to compare figures also.
but also looking on the graph something just doesnt look right in the before and after revs and speed, they must be in a different gear ?
unless there is a larger turbine or considerable cut back on it id like to see the boost pressure and vnt% at 260hp area.
congrats on the develpment work and the results but knowing what others went through to get a real 260hp with much larger turbo(and injectors) im reserving doubt for now.

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i dont know how the hub dyno works out its hp data as i dont see any whp figures which would make it a bit easier for people to compare figures also.
but also looking on the graph something just doesnt look right in the before and after revs and speed, they must be in a different gear ?
unless there is a larger turbine or considerable cut back on it id like to see the boost pressure and vnt% at 260hp area.
congrats on the develpment work and the results but knowing what others went through to get a real 260hp with much larger turbo(and injectors) im reserving doubt for now.
We had this car and a Ducati Corse on the hub dyno last week and on the graph the green line is the GT Cloverleaf standard, the red line was yesterday once it had been mapped with the hybrid turbo fitted

The Ducati Corse had fueling issues which we have fixed now by replacing the high pressure fuel pump.

I have attached another dyno graph from last week which is the GT Cloverleaf standard vs mapped

Also pictures of the Ducati on the hub dyno so you can see what it is, the hub dyno bolts directly the the hubs so eliminates wheel spin and the false readings from the momentum of the heavy rollers of a rolling road

The spikes are the vnt maxing out

Ned
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Damian, I'm taking my time on this. You've trail blazed and I'm slowly following your trail of smoking tyres. Next on the cards is to be able to slow down as quickly as I got from zero to quick, GTA and brakes come to mind.

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Cheers tejay.. Enjoy the modification journey. The later 330mm GTA brembo setup is a really lovely thing to have at this kind of power. I would recommend performance friction uprated pads too. The confidence it gives you is another level.

I think its bloody awesome for the community to see what this little 1.9jtd can achieve, and thanks to Autolusso without a huge outlay. And how much usable power can be had. To have the reliability factor too, once the car and engine is sorted. I use my car hard on and off track, with a high degree of mechanical sympathy of course. I get high 40's/50mpg and the depth of power the hybrid gives never ceases to put a smile on my face. I was holding off some fast multi cylinder machines on track.

As to FMIC and exhaust. Well for me the extra flow was an added bonus, always good to release some back pressure on a tuned turbo car. I have the FMIC and WMI, for me both made a difference in the way i use the car, especially now i want to continue doing track days. These mods are niceties not necessities for fast road. And are more preventative medicine, maintaining intake temps and power. More combating heat soak.
The standard GT exhaust system is not the most restrictive in the world. Plus boosted diesel engines tend to run cooler than their petrol cousins. The price of a decent exhaust system is not cheap, neither is an installed WMI kit. Probably talking nearly hybrid turbo kit money again for both.

With this type of increase in power i would be looking into upgrading the brakes. Autolusso does a set of performance friction pads for the standard GT callipers. Which make a major noticeable difference. But the oem+ way to go is with the GTA 330 kit. I went with GT 3.2 uprights, and had them powder coated. But i now hear there is a bracket you can buy in Italy, to fit the brembo callipers to the 1.9jtd uprights. Which will make the conversion more financially feasible.

Damien.

"Who thought diesels could be this bloody fun"

Eibach pro S coilovers. Eibach ARB kit. Autolusso remap. JTD performance high flow downpipe. Bespoke spec Turbo Dynamics hybrid.JTD performance FMIC kit.JTD performance high flow downpipe. Autolusso de swirl flap mod.Autolusso Mocal oil cooler kit. Autolusso smf GTA clutch kit. GTA 330mm big brake kit.JTD perf inlet pipe.Wizard exhaust system. 19x8 OZ superleggera's.
"big thanks to Ned and the lads at Autolusso"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autolusso View Post
We had a GT 1.9 JTD Cloverleaf on the hub dyno today and after a lot of messing about with the map

The power curve dose not look smooth but his is because this is because it was measured on a hub dyno which does not have the heavy rollers of a rolling road but give much more accurate data

How does 261.19 BHP & 396.78 LbFT sound

Ned
Ned - Just to confirm, is this 260+ what you'd consider a safe/sensible map for standard hardware? Or is this right on the edge?

There's been a lot of talk about what a safe power level is, and 260+ is well above where I think most people were thinking it was going to be!

At any rate, one helluva lot of power for the money!!!
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And can you put Damien's car on it too. Throw it in for free. Think of it as advertising ;-)

Be interested to see what his car is now chucking out.

Great to see such excellent results though.
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quote
We had this car and a Ducati Corse on the hub dyno last week and on the graph the green line is the GT Cloverleaf standard, the red line was yesterday once it had been mapped with the hybrid turbo fitted

have a look back at this graph, it must be in a different gear so are we comparing apples and oranges on that graph.
also i know what a hub dyno is what i meant was as it doesnt show whp on the graph and its measuring at the hub how does it measure or calculate the losses after the engine in the drivetrain, or does it add a fixed % or hp factor ontop, if so what are the losses or factor ?
and if you look and confirm it may have been in different gear , what effect if any would it have on the hub dyno?
dont get me wrong that last graph looks bob on what id expect with no issues, but is clearly in the same gear before and after.just to play devils advocate ive seen a normal dyno distorted by having say 60hp losses added to the flywheel figure(some on purpose by distorting the coast down).
also would you be willing to share the boost/maf and vnt figures ? this is also with a std oe maf sensor and std oe 3bar map sensor ?
was there any egt measurement going on at all during this run?

Last edited by sussexa; 15-06-16 at 13:14.
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Cheers tejay.. Enjoy the modification journey. The later 330mm GTA brembo setup is a really lovely thing to have at this kind of power. I would recommend performance friction uprated pads too. The confidence it gives you is another level.

I think its bloody awesome for the community to see what this little 1.9jtd can achieve, and thanks to Autolusso without a huge outlay. And how much usable power can be had. To have the reliability factor too, once the car and engine is sorted. I use my car hard on and off track, with a high degree of mechanical sympathy of course. I get high 40's/50mpg and the depth of power the hybrid gives never ceases to put a smile on my face. I was holding off some fast multi cylinder machines on track.

As to FMIC and exhaust. Well for me the extra flow was an added bonus, always good to release some back pressure on a tuned turbo car. I have the FMIC and WMI, for me both made a difference in the way i use the car, especially now i want to continue doing track days. These mods are niceties not necessities for fast road. And are more preventative medicine, maintaining intake temps and power. More combating heat soak.
The standard GT exhaust system is not the most restrictive in the world. Plus boosted diesel engines tend to run cooler than their petrol cousins. The price of a decent exhaust system is not cheap, neither is an installed WMI kit. Probably talking nearly hybrid turbo kit money again for both.

With this type of increase in power i would be looking into upgrading the brakes. Autolusso does a set of performance friction pads for the standard GT callipers. Which make a major noticeable difference. But the oem+ way to go is with the GTA 330 kit. I went with GT 3.2 uprights, and had them powder coated. But i now hear there is a bracket you can buy in Italy, to fit the brembo callipers to the 1.9jtd uprights. Which will make the conversion more financially feasible.

Damien.
An Italian bracket. I'll speak to Ned about it, I'm sure he speaks Italian.

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Originally Posted by tejay;14941274Next on the cards is to be able to slow down as quickly as I got from zero to quick, GTA and brakes come to mind.
[/QUOTE

QUOTE=ALFADOIT;14942274]
But the oem+ way to go is with the GTA 330 kit. I went with GT 3.2 uprights, and had them powder coated. But i now hear there is a bracket you can buy in Italy, to fit the brembo callipers to the 1.9jtd uprights. Which will make the conversion more financially feasible.

Damien.
I know from experience thats its a lot of hassle and expense fitting GTA uprights and Brembos. But, although there was a (ridiculously expensive) 330 Brembo kit for std 147s/156/GTs, but AFAIK its no longer available, never heard of any brackets for std cars and 330s, but there are brackets available for 166 Brembos that can take a 330 disc (they use the same pads as the GTA 330s), the calipers can be picked up from as little as 90 quid. And Mito QV/Punto Abarth Brembos will bolt straight onto std 147/156/GT uprights.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...st-thread.html (156 Brembo upgrade bracket interest thread.)

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There's been a lot of talk about what a safe power level is, and 260+ is well above where I think most people were thinking it was going to be!
There are a few 280-300 1.9s on here that have been around for as much as 10 years + and still going strong, so I think its long been confirmed that the safe power level is 280-300.
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I know from experience thats its a lot of hassle and expense fitting GTA uprights and Brembos. But, although there was a (ridiculously expensive) 330 Brembo kit for std 147s/156/GTs, but AFAIK its no longer available, never heard of any brackets for std cars and 330s, but there are brackets available for 166 Brembos that can take a 330 disc (they use the same pads as the GTA 330s), the calipers can be picked up from as little as 90 quid. And Mito QV/Punto Abarth Brembos will bolt straight onto std 147/156/GT uprights.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...st-thread.html (156 Brembo upgrade bracket interest thread.)
I had a pair of brackets made a few years ago that allow GTA 330mm calipers to be bolted to the standard hub carriers. Cost me about 200.
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QUOTE=ALFADOIT;14942274]
But the oem+ way to go is with the GTA 330 kit. I went with GT 3.2 uprights, and had them powder coated. But i now hear there is a bracket you can buy in Italy, to fit the brembo callipers to the 1.9jtd uprights. Which will make the conversion more financially feasible.

Damien.
I know from experience thats its a lot of hassle and expense fitting GTA uprights and Brembos. But, although there was a (ridiculously expensive) 330 Brembo kit for std 147s/156/GTs, but AFAIK its no longer available, never heard of any brackets for std cars and 330s, but there are brackets available for 166 Brembos that can take a 330 disc (they use the same pads as the GTA 330s), the calipers can be picked up from as little as 90 quid. And Mito QV/Punto Abarth Brembos will bolt straight onto std 147/156/GT uprights.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...st-thread.html (156 Brembo upgrade bracket interest thread.)





Yes there are brackets being fabricated now. Guy in Italy sells them. An Italian friend of mine just did the conversion with a set of adapter brackets.
I went down the other route as i managed to get hold of some 3.2 uprights for a decent price. Ned had them powder coated. We also fitted brand new later GTA callipers, and we used new 164 steering arms. So yes it was eye wateringly expensive at the time. But hey i am a fussy git and wanted it done right and with new parts. My car is a keeper. So each step of my project has to be OCD spot on.

As to what power level is safe well, how long is a piece of string. Depends how you use the car, but driveshafts etc and gearbox seem to cope well with around 270plus. The question is how much in theory do you need? I personally think 250-60 is a nice place to be with the GT. Solid reliability and the car is not over stretched mechanically. I have also taken a lot of dead weight out of my car, so with slightly better power to weight and it is physically noticeable.

Damien.
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These brackets sound good..For fast rd use a far better use of funds than an FMIC.

I think once my GTA clutch is in I am going to look at this..could probably do the whole job myself for around 600 if you can get a set of used calipers..

Roll on the 6th ,really looking foward to clutch and mapping session at autolusso!
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These brackets sound good..For fast rd use a far better use of funds than an FMIC.

I think once my GTA clutch is in I am going to look at this..could probably do the whole job myself for around 600 if you can get a set of used calipers..

Roll on the 6th ,really looking foward to clutch and mapping session at autolusso!
I know Dan had brackets made of this so talk to him about that but the right way of doing it is to use GTA uprights like we did on Damies car but this starts getting expensive. The other way of doing it is fitting the Brembo callipers fitted to the Mito as these bolt straight on but you are a bit limited in the pads you can us as they don't make Performance Friction pads yet to fit these callipers (I did say yet as we are working on it)

See you on the 6th

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looking forward to it..

we'll have a chat about brakes as well...
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