Alfa 147 1.9 JTDM uprated clutch - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Alfa 147 1.9 JTDM uprated clutch

Hi guys,
I had a remap about 3 months ago and I knew already the clutch was quite bad but there wasn't any slipping. Since the remap I've had pretty bad clutch slip in 4th 5th and 6th gear which is only getting worse. Anyway does anybody know of anywhere that do uprated clutches or am I best just getting a replacement clutch from Alfa. Is there a different clutch used in the 150 and 170bhp engines or is it the same?
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just replace the clutch and DMF with standard items and it will be fine

someone will be along shortly recommending smf conversions
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Right okay, I don't know a great deal about this does my car have a solid flywheel or a dmf as standard? I don't want to fit a standard clutch and flywheel if it will wear out quickly with the remap. I should add- it wasn't a big remap, it's only pushing out around 180bhp Id say. There wasn't any slipping before the remap but the pedal was hard to push down and I've never liked the clutch on the car
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my car got to 62k with its clutch and dmf, then i had it remapped at alfatune, Gus told me that if there was any weakness in the drivetrian that the remap would break it. The driveshafts lasted a few months, the clutch was slipping within 10k and was hopeless after 20k miles

i had the clutch and dmf changed at around 90k and the car has 130k on now with no issue

the dmf is there to save the engine torque spikes wrecking the transmission

my guess is that if your car is a 16v then it will have a dmf as standard

might be worth speaking to autolusso, they can change the clutch for ~500 and check the dmf while they are there, might get away with it
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the slip as u describe it is the release bearing....you will prob find there is still meat on the friction plate and your DMF is ok
Alfa as a pull clutch and if it does not cleanly and fully release itll slip
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I would recommenced a slightly uprated clutch, I followed the 'standard will be fine' route, wish I hadn't of now.

I dont think you can go too far wrong with this one:
http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/..._p23367986.htm maybe I'm using the site wrong but I assume the clutch from a 140 is the same as the 150. Or maybe not and this is the one: http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/..._p23368050.htm I'm sure a phone call would clear things up.

Last edited by androo; 08-01-15 at 18:59.
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Thanks for the input guys, some useful contacts and resources.

Best way I can describe the slip is that if you are steady and smooth with the accelerator it usually won't slip, but if you need to quickly put your foot down to overtake or something, the revs will quickly rise and the car will hesitate for a second, then it will suddenly 'grab' and it will accelerate smoothly and just how it should. These are probably the typical symptoms of clutch slip but what hdseven said about the release bearing has got me thinking, as there used to be a bit of a noise when you put your foot down and it was slipping, funnily enough this seems to have disappeared now though
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Update: I took it a good independent garage today who I've used many times, one of the guys took it for a drive and reckoned they only got it to slip once. He said clutch is absolutely fine, as is the DMF. I mentioned about the release bearing as hdseven said, and they all shook their heads at that saying it won't be the problem, but I still have a suspicion it might be. Anyway, guy who took it for a drive said clutch/dmf both fine but said the turbo boost may be the issue???
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where did you take it?
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where did you take it?
Place called ABP near to me. After searching the internet some more tonight, it seems if the revs are rising without an increase in speed it can only be the clutch that's slipping, even if it is for a split second and as soon as the transmission grabs it goes like stink. It is certainly due to the remap so I think the only option is to revert back to the standard map and hope the clutch and flywheel haven't been damaged too badly
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Does sound clutch related.

I have a tuning box installed and on a higher setting it used to do what you described. turned it down a notch and now all is fine and its never done it since. I initially thought, like you, clutch was knackered, but clearly it didn't need replacing .....just the amount of power needed reducing. Can you revert the remap to standard and compare?
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Originally Posted by t3yls View Post
Does sound clutch related.

I have a tuning box installed and on a higher setting it used to do what you described. turned it down a notch and now all is fine and its never done it since. I initially thought, like you, clutch was knackered, but clearly it didn't need replacing .....just the amount of power needed reducing. Can you revert the remap to standard and compare?
Yes the more I read about it and the more I think about it, it can only be clutch related due to the remap. I'm not sure where is most local to me but I will contact a few places tomorrow to get it reverted back to standard. What make is the tuning box you have ?
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its this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diesel-Chi...-/310801959403

had it on about 3.5 yrs now. Not a single problem and one of the great benefits is the ability to dial it down a bit because of clutch slippage. My clutch is on 112k miles too.
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If clutch is slipping removing the remap is only putting off the need for a new clutch .I would take it to a specialist get looked at
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if you limit the amount of booting it at 2000rpm (where the peak torque is) then it wont slip, learn to drive around it.

as stu says it sounds like the clutch is weak anyway so you may get 10 - 20k out of it if you dont murder it peak torque
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3yls View Post
its this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diesel-Chi...-/310801959403

had it on about 3.5 yrs now. Not a single problem and one of the great benefits is the ability to dial it down a bit because of clutch slippage. My clutch is on 112k miles too.
That's interesting, good how you can adjust it to your liking too. I might look into them further once I've sorted mine out at the mo as it's way too tuned up and not really what I was after.


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If clutch is slipping removing the remap is only putting off the need for a new clutch .I would take it to a specialist get looked at
Yes certainly clutch slip, I'm taking it to Gus at alfatune next Monday so will get it finally sorted out.


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if you limit the amount of booting it at 2000rpm (where the peak torque is) then it wont slip, learn to drive around it.

as stu says it sounds like the clutch is weak anyway so you may get 10 - 20k out of it if you dont murder it peak torque

I have been driving it carefully, but it's a shame to have the power there and not being able to use it properly.
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did Gus do the remap?
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did Gus do the remap?
No he didn't
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No he didn't
I ask because I believe he keeps the original file, in case of such problems.

When you look back at old posts, its surprising how many people are looking for a new clutch post-remap. Still, it just seems to be accepted as part of the package.
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Originally Posted by t3yls View Post
I ask because I believe he keeps the original file, in case of such problems.

When you look back at old posts, its surprising how many people are looking for a new clutch post-remap. Still, it just seems to be accepted as part of the package.
Ah I see, no unfortunately not but I'm just going to be having the standard map put back on. I guess I didn't read enough into it before I had the remap but at the time I did ask for something that wouldn't put the clutch/flywheel or anything else in jeopardy. The clutch may have already been fairly worn but the remap I had made it a whole lot worse and I don't like driving around having to be careful as to not damage anything. The tuning box you have had mixed opinions too but as said it's good how you can adjust it to your liking.
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yes they get some very mixed opinions lol. But when I asked some very specific questions about the consequences, no-one could actually answer them. I find it useful if I want to wear my clutch out, at least I have the option to .....or not!
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Hey

I am having exactly the same problem now in my 2006 GT 150ps which I chipped to 180ps/400Nm few days ago. It has 125k miles on the clock and I got it 3 months ago.
Before the remap, the clutch didn't slip at all although it was 'catching quite high' and was fairly heavy to operate (although I have never driven other JTD so can't compare).
When I was coming back home, immediately after the remap (different city), on the motorway, on 4th, 5th and 6th gears....if I bring the car to speed so that the rpm is around 2000 and I floor it....then the car will initially 'go'....then slip around 2200-2400, rpms will increase rapidly by about 300-400 without car accelerating and then it will catch back again and car continues to accelerate.

Most of the mechanics tell me that my clutch probably needs changing to new one (preferably to stronger one too due to higher torque after chipping) and that probably I have to take into consideration that DMF will also need to be changed at the same time as apparently if I put the new clutch in but leave the old DMF in with it....it may turn out that the DMF is warped somehow and even though the clutch is new, the DMF will not be able to cling to the clutch with its whole surface so the whole thing may still slip. Is this true? Is this probable?

I understand that I can gauge the clutch condition visually when it is out but is there a way to gauge the condition of the DMF? I would ideally avoid changing the DMF as....it is very expensive to me (I am not very rich unfo).

hdseven - maybe my bearing only needs changing and not only DMF but even the clutch are good? Also, I heard that Valeo bearings (which are mounted in the car in the factory) are not the best and tend to break and that Sachs bearings are much better - is this true?

I also don't know which clutch to go for.....I cannot afford for anything from CG Motorsport. Hasitating between new Sachs standard clutch (someone told me that it is a better quality clutch then the one Valeo supplied Alfa for fitment in the factory + the bearing will be better then Valeo's and that standard Sachs clutch should be even fine with handling my 400Nm) or the clutch for 147 Ducati Corse which I am guessing is strengthened even when compared to the clutch used in the exactly same setting in GT 170ps/330Nm A6.000. I am not entirely sure but the this Ducati clutch, that is hard to come by, is Valeo 828065?
I even tried to find a brochure in pdf online for the Ducati Corse to see if Alfa mentioned/listed the strengthening/sporting up of the clutch which would indicate that indeed the clutch dedicated for Ducati is different/stronger then the one used in the same powered/engined/gearboxed 170ps GT.

Please help as I really don't know what to do. I have already spent my money on chip tuning and wouldn't like to go back to the old map or drive as it is but not fully enjoying the power.

many many thanks

Alfa!!!!
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Quote:
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Hey

I am having exactly the same problem now in my 2006 GT 150ps which I chipped to 180ps/400Nm few days ago. It has 125k miles on the clock and I got it 3 months ago.
Before the remap, the clutch didn't slip at all although it was 'catching quite high' and was fairly heavy to operate (although I have never driven other JTD so can't compare).
When I was coming back home, immediately after the remap (different city), on the motorway, on 4th, 5th and 6th gears....if I bring the car to speed so that the rpm is around 2000 and I floor it....then the car will initially 'go'....then slip around 2200-2400, rpms will increase rapidly by about 300-400 without car accelerating and then it will catch back again and car continues to accelerate.
Very common complaint that the clutch starts slipping shortly after a remap/chip-tune, especially when it's an older clutch already.

Peak torque on these engines is about 2700rpm, but it build quickly from 2000rpm as the turbo comes on boost.. Not surprised you're breaking friction when you give it a poke at 2,000-2,400 rpm...

So your mechanics are essentially correct - you need a new clutch if you want to keep the chip-tune and drive the way you're driving.

you might be bale to nurse the car around by being gentle with it and deliberately backing off around 2000-3000 rpm, but the writing is on the wall... It'll need doing eventually.

DMF can be inspected once the gearbox and clutch are off and out of the way. Expensive repair job if it needs replacing though.

You could looking into the Autolusso SMF/GTA Clutch conversion if you're keen - it's a well proven flywheel/clutch combo on these cars that can take really high torque loads (ask Damien about his journey of discovery with clutches!).. I think initial outlay is similar to an OEM clutch/DMF, but the flywheel can be re-skimmed/surfaced if it needs it so should be a cheaper route permanently...

Cheapest option would be to remove the chip-tune box, use the car as it currently is and save up for a new clutch in the future!

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i can see ppl saying about removing remap, but if clutch slips then by removing remap you are only buying a bit more time and then you will miss the remap.
just get a new clutch.
personally if i was worried about clutch slip in future i would uprate the clutch and be done with it

my 2.4jtd has had a remap and goes like stink, there is a judder i get where i think the clutch is starting to slip a little. but i am not going to remve the map, just going to wait until time is right to replace the clutch. plus i fitting a 1.9 6 speed box aswell haha

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