Coming back to GT ownership after a 3 year break, and build thread...:-) - Page 15 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Didn't realise you still had the main cat on , get them off and you will hear some difference, be a bit throatier, plus gain a few ponies in the process.

Is a lovely looking bit of kit though.
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I'm sure I've seen a youtube vid with a rather nice sounding modified 1.9 GT

I wonder what they used?
I think that one had a straight through..No front cat.. Will have to see what the front part will bring..Throaty ness is what i am after...

Damien.
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well ,have to publicly comment, I was in the Swindon area last night and went for a blat with Damien in his GT.

WOW..what a machine! very go kart like in the handling, felt precise and planted and much less prone to the skittishness GT's can have on less than perfect roads, the power delivery though is something else, solid torquey and absolutely no let up right to the red line. the exhaust although not what Damien wanted is an improvement on the standard GT and I think with a couple of other cheeky mods the car could be made to sound acceptable at idle.

it feels very much like sitting in a larger displacement petrol engine in terms of the way the power goes down apart from of course the flatter torque curve and the subsequent shorter shifts...which are considerably less pronounced in Damien's car due to the hybrid turbo...its still a diesel but you soon forget that when the power goes down..

its a hell of an achievement, and although some would say its crazy I get it totally, we all love the look of the GT and the handling when right is up there with the best of them,so why not get the car you love the look of performing to the best of its capabilities?

against the price of getting a car you don't like that has the performance and then somehow making a body kit or getting some one to make a shell the cost is minimal...that would cost thousands and thousands..! there is a guy on the e36 forum that built a very nice body kit for the Z3 chassis and is easily £20,000 in...so that way is no less expensive.

I love the brera to look at for example but I don't think it will ever be possible to get one handling like a well sorted GT does,its just too heavy.

so this is the right way round to do it, get a car you love the look of that has the potential and then improve it...and I like the fact Damien has gone the extra mile to get EXACTLY the car he wants.

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Cheers guys

Yes i was astonished i didn't have a more deeper meaty sound? If anything i thought we would be playing tone down with the design of the front part of the system Dan. I wonder what we can do to increase the sound at all?

Yes Alex she looks awesome, no doubt about that..And the weight aspect does appeal to me.

Damien.
Standard GT ------------------ Damien's GT

GT1749 turbo ------------------ Hybrid turbo
Pre-cat ------------------------- mild steel pre-cat delete
Front pipe ---------------------- Still original
Main cat ------------------------ Still original
Mid pipe ------------------------ Wizard Exhausts (straight through no box)
Backbox ------------------------ Wizard Exhausts (straight through no box, twin tailpipes)

There really isn't much you can do to add volume.. We've removed every last bit of silencing from the parts of the exhaust we've replaced. I think only way to get the volume you're after is to remove the main cat now, although I honestly expected at a little bit of an exhaust note by completely removing the backbox and replacing it with straight through tube.

Autolusso Penrith - UK's leading independent Alfa Romeo specialist with branches in Bedfordshire, Cumbria & Dorset

Wizard Exhaust systems available here

Tel: 01768 879 171
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well ,have to publicly comment, I was in the Swindon area last night and went for a blat with Damien in his GT.

WOW..what a machine! very go kart like in the handling, felt precise and planted and much less prone to the skittishness GT's can have on less than perfect roads, the power delivery though is something else, solid torquey and absolutely no let up right to the red line. the exhaust although not what Damien wanted is an improvement on the standard GT and I think with a couple of other cheeky mods the car could be made to sound acceptable at idle.

it feels very much like sitting in a larger displacement petrol engine in terms of the way the power goes down apart from of course the flatter torque curve and the subsequent shorter shifts...which are considerably less pronounced in Damien's car due to the hybrid turbo...its still a diesel but you soon forget that when the power goes down..

its a hell of an achievement, and although some would say its crazy I get it totally, we all love the look of the GT and the handling when right is up there with the best of them,so why not get the car you love the look of performing to the best of its capabilities?

against the price of getting a car you don't like that has the performance and then somehow making a body kit or getting some one to make a shell the cost is minimal...that would cost thousands and thousands..! there is a guy on the e36 forum that built a very nice body kit for the Z3 chassis and is easily £20,000 in...so that way is no less expensive.

I love the brera to look at for example but I don't think it will ever be possible to get one handling like a well sorted GT does,its just too heavy.

so this is the right way round to do it, get a car you love the look of that has the potential and then improve it...and I like the fact Damien has gone the extra mile to get EXACTLY the car he wants.

Thanks Joe

Really appreciate the positive comments. You hit the nail on the head. The GT has so much potential to unlock. And its so worth it. The new turbo and the ability to pull strong to the red line is the game changer in my opinion, my 170 spec turbo used to get to a rev limit nudge point and it ruined the satisfaction of the drive. Was good to see you Joe..Your "Blackleaf" looked great too. The black badges really suit it.

Damien.
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Standard GT ------------------ Damien's GT

GT1749 turbo ------------------ Hybrid turbo
Pre-cat ------------------------- mild steel pre-cat delete
Front pipe ---------------------- Still original
Main cat ------------------------ Still original
Mid pipe ------------------------ Wizard Exhausts (straight through no box)
Backbox ------------------------ Wizard Exhausts (straight through no box, twin tailpipes)

There really isn't much you can do to add volume.. We've removed every last bit of silencing from the parts of the exhaust we've replaced. I think only way to get the volume you're after is to remove the main cat now, although I honestly expected at a little bit of an exhaust note by completely removing the backbox and replacing it with straight through tube.
Will have to see how she sounds with the cat delete pipe fitted Dan. I don't think it will make much aural difference personally..More performance..Amazing really the lack of sound results of removing the rear silencers? Was not expecting that.
Joe made a great point yesterday about getting better thicker sound deadening under bonnet material to muffle the sound of the engine. Do you think going with 3inch pipework would have made a difference Dan?

Damien.
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I noticed a disctinct lack of lag after de-cating the down pipe, it should make a difference Damien and I expect it to be a surprise exactly how much!

I now have to finish my car mate, I can now feel what it doesn't have after riding shotgun in your clover, i also got destroyed by a BMW 520D today ,I suspect it was re-mapped as i had one as a courtesy car after my previous GT was written off and my GT is quicker than one in stock form for sure, none the less it was much quicker off the line although I think the GT handles better and is more fun to drive,

you would not have been taken apart in your car, so for me its now the FMIC and your hybrid..as well as the other small mods mentioned to enhance it will bring it up to where it should be.

yours is nearly perfect, in fact for anyone else I think it would be but I understand your desire to wring every last ounce of performance out of it and am looking forward to seeing what its like when you are happy...

honestly I have not felt acceleration like that in 5th gear a car since my mates RS6 its monstrous! a hell of a lot of torque and speed to match..

looking forward to getting all my bits done and the 19's on and the ''blackleaf'' will be finished.

I will find the engine blanket company I was thinking of going with, the blanket is designed to cancel out exactly the frequencies that distinguish a diesel from a petrol, if it works clack clack should be a thing of the past and replaced with a nice burble...

see you soon for those wheels !


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I think removing the front bottleneck in the front part of the system will make a difference Joe, so looking forward to that. I think you will love your GT at the stage i am at now. And although i have spent a bit getting her to this stage. I would of had to spend a hell of a lot more to buy anything else that gives such all round performance, feedback, fun and dare i say economy.

I am very impressed with what this engine is capable of without internal modification, its quite something. But as Ned rightly said once you go over a certain point you are in uncharted territory. Joel assures me the std drive shafts can cope with 500lbft of torque with his excellent big turbo conversion. He has solidly tested his big power 147 for some time now, and it has been reliable in this state of tune. Which is reassuring.
If my car feels pretty overwhelmingly impressive from stock at this stage, i can only imagine what Joel's 270bhp engine feels like.
I actually feel my GT's power to be as impressive as the 300bhp i had in my previous modified 1.8t Audi QS. But far more obtainable and usable. In fact i feel my car is actually more efficient now than it was when it left the factory. When i drive in a chilled manner i get higher mpg than i ever did.
And this engine, as i discovered with my last 2004 GT jtd gets better as the miles go on. My car still has only 40 odd thousand miles.
My last jtd felt a hell of a lot faster at 80k with remap than my cloverleaf did when i first bought her from Veloces in London.

To say i am happy with the cars progress so far is an understatement. I am very grateful to Autolusso, the car is a credit to them. Its a never ending progression too. Its all about balance, and creating a great all round reliable fun package. Also Joel's guidance and how he pushes the envelope reliably with this engine is truly inspirational.

Damien.
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"Who thought diesels could be this bloody fun"

Eibach pro S coilovers. Eibach ARB kit. Autolusso remap. JTD performance high flow downpipe. Bespoke spec Turbo Dynamics hybrid.JTD performance FMIC kit.JTD performance high flow downpipe. Autolusso de swirl flap mod.Autolusso Mocal oil cooler kit. Autolusso smf GTA clutch kit. GTA 330mm big brake kit.JTD perf inlet pipe.Wizard exhaust system. 19x8 OZ superleggera's.
"big thanks to Ned and the lads at Autolusso"
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Good stuff, sounds a right machine. Who's this Joel fella? Someone on here? Is so does he have an interesting thread to have a read of?
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Good stuff, sounds a right machine. Who's this Joel fella? Someone on here? Is so does he have an interesting thread to have a read of?
Hi Alex

Joel is the founder of JTD performance in Holland. He is indeed on here..He does lots of little mods for the JTD engines and turbo kits. And being a top bloke and engineer at that.

Yes things are going very well in GT land. To quote one of your threads Al "god i love my GT"

Damien.
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Just catching up on this. Sorry to hear the exhaust didn't give you the exact expectation.
However least you won't have to worry about rust...

To be honest it doesn't quite surprise me that its not changed the note though. Diesel's operate on two distinct principles that don't change sounds.

The engine knocks technically to produce power from the fuel. It then use's a Turbo. So the atmospheric pressure that's in the exhaust doesn't change that much with high pressure waves you normally get from the exhaust port shutting. Its bounced around a turbo.

I'm incredibly surprised you didn't get more volume though with removing the silencers.

Saying that the straight through pipe should help remove and increase flow characteristics over OEM.
Given that all the exhaust gas gets lumped into a 4-1 hole and back pressure isn't applicable so much on a turbo it's not a huge surprise.

But think on the positives.

You are still pioneering firsts
The exhaust will out live the car
It's still pretty shiny

Regards
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well ,have to publicly comment, I was in the Swindon area last night and went for a blat with Damien in his GT.

WOW..what a machine! very go kart like in the handling, felt precise and planted and much less prone to the skittishness GT's can have on less than perfect roads, the power delivery though is something else, solid torquey and absolutely no let up right to the red line. the exhaust although not what Damien wanted is an improvement on the standard GT and I think with a couple of other cheeky mods the car could be made to sound acceptable at idle.

it feels very much like sitting in a larger displacement petrol engine in terms of the way the power goes down apart from of course the flatter torque curve and the subsequent shorter shifts...which are considerably less pronounced in Damien's car due to the hybrid turbo...its still a diesel but you soon forget that when the power goes down..

its a hell of an achievement, and although some would say its crazy I get it totally, we all love the look of the GT and the handling when right is up there with the best of them,so why not get the car you love the look of performing to the best of its capabilities?

against the price of getting a car you don't like that has the performance and then somehow making a body kit or getting some one to make a shell the cost is minimal...that would cost thousands and thousands..! there is a guy on the e36 forum that built a very nice body kit for the Z3 chassis and is easily £20,000 in...so that way is no less expensive.

I love the brera to look at for example but I don't think it will ever be possible to get one handling like a well sorted GT does,its just too heavy.

so this is the right way round to do it, get a car you love the look of that has the potential and then improve it...and I like the fact Damien has gone the extra mile to get EXACTLY the car he wants.

Damien - must be fantastic for you to get such a positive second opinion on all your GT work and good for us to be able to read it too - now we know you're not making it all up! Thanks Joey. While I'd never go to all the lengths you have gone to it's nice to know that there are tried and tested possibilities should the rest of us fancy an upgrade. Sincerely thank you for documenting it.

Now, all you car needs is a respray in a better colour...
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Damien - must be fantastic for you to get such a positive second opinion on all your GT work and good for us to be able to read it too - now we know you're not making it all up! Thanks Joey. While I'd never go to all the lengths you have gone to it's nice to know that there are tried and tested possibilities should the rest of us fancy an upgrade. Sincerely thank you for documenting it.

Now, all you car needs is a respray in a better colour...
Thanks Paddy means a lot bud..

Joey is a great guy and he gives his honest down to earth opinion. So i valued his feedback. I am far from finished and still motivated by what can be done to my GT.

What was interesting is that Joey mentioned to me how my hybrid pretty much felt similar low down to his std turbo'd mapped Blackline, but its the link to mid range power and unrelenting high end, where the hybrid just shines through, right to the red line. The power delivery is so addictive. Much more like a very capable normally aspirated multi cylinder engine, so linear. Credit to the Autolusso map tweaks, of which there have been a few.
I am learning and educating myself all the time as i go along, and am so fortunate to have guidance form Ned and Joel in Holland in developing this project and this engine.

I hope people realise i am honest with what i have to say, as i go along. I have no reason not to be. And its great if this can be an educational experience to other GT jtd owners. To see what the car is capable of in its most developed perfected purest form. Still progress to be made until that status is achieved.

Damien.
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Joel is the founder of JTD performance in Holland. He is indeed on here..He does lots of little mods for the JTD engines and turbo kits. And being a top bloke and engineer at that.
Thanks for the compliment Damian!

For your sound issue; I have to say I'm surprised too about this rear section. At idle, it is difficult to change the exhaust note because the vnt vanes are in closed position. Try it, just pull off the turbo's vacuum hose during idle (it will open the vanes) and you will hear the exhaust note change immediately to a lower tone.
Anyway, during full throttle I'd certainly expect a difference. Did you have the diameter increased btw?

But, there's good news. Exchange the front section including main cat to 2,5" piping with a freeflow absorption silencer and the sound will definitely change. And it will make a considerable difference in performance as well.

Greetings Joel

Ps here's what the above exhaust mods sounds like (also with GTB turbo fitted):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZr5...4cXk2dlHjq-zlg
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147 JTDm 16v - GTB2056v - 289 hp/539 Nm

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I just followed a couple of vids of your 147, quite incredible and very good sound. Damien, get what he says, it's only money. Nice to see you have FSDs on there too.
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Thanks for the compliment Damian!

For your sound issue; I have to say I'm surprised too about this rear section. At idle, it is difficult to change the exhaust note because the vnt vanes are in closed position. Try it, just pull off the turbo's vacuum hose during idle (it will open the vanes) and you will hear the exhaust note change immediately to a lower tone.
Anyway, during full throttle I'd certainly expect a difference. Did you have the diameter increased btw?

But, there's good news. Exchange the front section including main cat to 2,5" piping with a freeflow absorption silencer and the sound will definitely change. And it will make a considerable difference in performance as well.

Greetings Joel

Ps here's what the above exhaust mods sounds like (also with GTB turbo fitted):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZr5...4cXk2dlHjq-zlg
Hi Joel

Yes indeed i was a little perplexed after fitting the unsilenced rear sections. Specially after listening to your 147 countless times.

I think you are correct, unlocking the potential of front section of the system will change the tone of things. Looking forward to that very soon.

My Wizard is system is 2.5 bore. Also i am sure your lovely GTB turbo gives a deeper acoustical sound, being of a bigger internal diameter and higher flow.

Damien.
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I just followed a couple of vids of your 147, quite incredible and very good sound. Damien, get what he says, it's only money. Nice to see you have FSDs on there too.
Don't worry Alex..I'm on the case.
Joel's GTB turbo'd 147 sounds fantastic for a JTD..Also i wonder if the shorter chassis, hence system pipework of the 147 aids acoustics..

Damien.
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I will find the engine blanket company I was thinking of going with, the blanket is designed to cancel out exactly the frequencies that distinguish a diesel from a petrol, if it works clack clack should be a thing of the past and replaced with a nice burble...
Was it these guys Joey?

Vehicle acoustic engine blankets - NK Group
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yup! exactly the Guys..

look none of us are under the illusion that a 1.9 derv will ever sound as good as Busso but I think with some work its more than do-able that its not clear to anyone listening exactly what it is...I am a pro guitarist and have gone to some trouble designing speaker cabs for some of my valve amplifiers, and its amazing what can be achieved by cancelling out or enhancing particular frequencies in order to achieve a desired result..

what we are trying to get rid off is top end knock, treble frequencies are so much more easy to cancel/diminish than low down stuff , so in my mind its a relatively easy thing to do if you so desire...as the Clack comes from the front of the car and the ''growl'' comes from the exhaust its a simple case of turning the volume down on one and up on the other...open up the exhaust and dampen the engine bay.



the only other bits are the problematic 0-60 time vs a Busso or similar petrol engine.. IMO by the time you have enough power, traction will be an issue due to the torque and the front wheel drive, on top of that the ridiculously short 1st gear doesn't help..I think the best that be achieved from the Derv is high 6's to low 7's..I have the quaife diff and a map worth around 180ish BHP and its already a problem, some practice will be required with the left foot and 1st to 2nd gear change to get it properly smooth and rapid.

other than that judging by Damien's car a 1.9 derv as rapid as a Busso in all but 0-60 is easily do-able, and as there is so much torque the power is more usable for the less skilled driver as it soaks up mistakes and sloppy gear changes.


mine is down to Loz next month for the FMIC and he has a 200BHP clover map we will dial back a bit and try with the standard turbo... I expect a gain on the current set up of around 15-20 BHP I have a stage one clutch which is rated to 200HP so it should all hang together fine...

I hope!

I inherit Damien's lovely Hybrid in the next few months so worst comes to worst I can wait till then for the POWER!..
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Contrary to what some of you are trying to achieve here, I actually wouldn't like to disguise the fact that my 147 is a diesel.

Ok, I have fitted a straight through exhaust with no cats, just a back box on, to make it sound a bit beefier, but I actually have enjoyed the fact that after a blat against some technically 'better' cars (Focus ST, older Golf R32 amongst a few) and they haven't got the better of the little 147, I find the look on their faces priceless when they hear the diesel engine clattering away.

Just my perspective on things and obviously everyone has there own goals, otherwise the world would be a very dull place.
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Hold up.. These guys are hawking magic magnets to clip on to your fuel supply lines : E MAG Fuel Saving Device - NK Group

Surprised they didn't claim that the magnets cure cancer a well...
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Hold up.. These guys are hawking magic magnets to clip on to your fuel supply lines : E MAG Fuel Saving Device - NK Group

Surprised they didn't claim that the magnets cure cancer a well...
More power, lower emissions, and they make you irresistible to the opposite sex.

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So looking forward to tackling the steering wheel tomorrow. I have found another mint cloverleaf wheel this time with rare red stitching, as it came off a red cloverleaf. My wheel is with black stitching. So will fit this while my wheel and gear knob top is being sent away to be redone in Alcantara. And will be nice to have it as a second option..lol. A man can never have too many wheels right! I was wondering about maybe having green stitching with the red, to honour the cloverleaf aspect of the car.
After talking with Joel about airbox designs, and he has researched the subject fully, it seems to me the best option would be to modify the original box giving it a larger intake mouth. JTD performance does a billet item that does just this.
Also " when" i go for the larger GTB turbo JTD performance does an adaptor that can be fitted to the airbox maf inlet so i can use the larger 2.4 jtd maf.
To be honest the way she is now does really properly impress me, so god only knows what another 50bhp will feel like? The efficiency and reliability balance of the car at the end of the day is important to me.
Joel has been running this GTB conversion for a good few years now and his car is still rock solid. So it all bodes well. All this needs planning properly, but its great to know my car is rock solid base now. I am having real fun having a proper Q car.

Damien.
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This one here?

Intake parts : Intake snorkel cold air 147

Looks cheap and easy to fit! Make sure to report back when you've tried it
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I think he means this maf adaptor
Intake parts : Airbox adapter 147/GT
you guys should have that type of intake snorkel to airbox standard already ?
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Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 147, 156 & GT

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