Alfa GT 1.9 16v Blackline Major Problems - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 35 Old 24-09-12 Thread Starter
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Alfa GT 1.9 16v Blackline Major Problems

Hello all.

This is my last and only hope before having a nervous fit.

I just bought an 2008 GT Blackline from a private owner in the UK. It's only got 30K miles on it.

I am now driving the car down to Malta which is where I live, and am currently in Rome however I have noticed these problems with the car:

1. Engine Jerking and hesitation between 1800 and 2300 rpm.
2. Black cloud of smoke from exhaust when punching the throttle down on any gear when below 2000 rpm.
3. In General pretty poor and flat engine performance until at least 3500 rpm.

This morning I stopped at an Alfa Dealer in South Switzerland, they checked both the top and bottom intake tubes and they said there were no cracks. They also connected to the ECU and ran an EGR diagnostic however it turned out to be "fine". The guy then took the car for a test drive and that's when I realised he had no idea what he was talking about as he did not feel any of the above issues. His excuse for charging me Ä150 was that it "could have been bad diesel".

Firstly, I need to know if I can keep driving it for the next two days, or whether I will damage it further.

Secondly... what the hell is going on? No warning lights, EGR diag was apparently good but there's definitely no damn power on the thing.

Please help me before I lose my mind and jump off the top of the Colosseum.

Thanks,

Jan
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no power up to 2500 revs is fairly typical of a stuck open ERG - been there myself.

The alternative is that the VNT vacumn line is holed/split.

The first thing to try is blanking off the ERG, you can make up a plate from any tin can and a set of snips and a drill.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 35 Old 24-09-12 Thread Starter
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I'm not that technical, but apparently the previous owner fitted some sort of plate with three holes in between the EGR and other thingy to apparently "help" it from getting clogged. This obviously didn't work.

Not sure if this helps, but it might be worth noting that:

a) The engine was remapped by a company in the UK called Angel Tuning - I check out their site and they seem legit
b) Yesterday while driving through the mountain roads there was a smell of burning when I was shifting gears a lot. It only happened a couple of times on the motorway when at a constant speed.

Could this be part of the black smoke issue?
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Black smoke is unburnt fuel, is the car still remapped or did they put it back to the factory map?

If it is the EGR valve, you should be able to drive it home, however it might not be the greatest driving experiance unfortunatly.
You might find an 'italian tune up' helps (a good thrash on a motorway basically). If you do find things improve after doing this, then the EGR is the most likely suspect
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Could it be the MAF? Low power, hesitation (jerkyness).
or I had a Volvo T4 turbo with similar symptoms (no black smoke though) and it was Turbo Boost Valve Sensor, which was a fairly cheap fix £65 plus £30 labour.
If black smoke though is it EVERY time you boot it or just after driving slow/not using for a good few hours? Do you still get the black smoke when engine is warm or after a few miles of +2000 revs? I'm no expert but black smoke could be a split turbo hose and it could also explain lack of power/big flat spot.

TBH it doesnt sound terminal. And as someone else said, is it still remapped?

EDIT: My Volvo fix was using 2nd hand sensor but bought from a recognised dealer.

2nd Edit: Just seen your in Malta, shame, I was there 10 days ago in St Julian, could have had a look!

2006-2008 156 2.0 TS Lusso
2011 - now GT 1.9Jtd
2015 GT 1.9 & 146 1.8 twinny
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You also say no warning lights, which would actually be the engine symbol MCSF (which can also come on when a sparrow breaths near it.. sensitive blooming thing). If the EGR is already blanked off, and its remapped, then the last owner may have had DPF delete (someone correct me if I'm talking rubbish at this point). Anyway, if its blanked and DPF deleted this could stop the sensor triggering the MCSF warning.
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(Post Link) post #7 of 35 Old 24-09-12 Thread Starter
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I've given it an Italian Tune up. The same thing happens whether the engine in warm, cold, high in the mountains or by the sea.

It's still remapped. I told the guys at the Swiss Alfa dealer and they didn't seem to think it was an issue.

I'll start off with the EGR and take it from there. I was really expecting more power out of this car though. At the moment, it just feels like there's an endless amount of turbo lag :-(
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With a non remapped car (i.e. mine..) there will be lag like any other diesel turbo but only from Standing for a second (though it will feel longer at a roundabout). If its EGR or any airflow issue, turbo hose, MAF, Turbo Boost Sensor etc. then longer lag is to be expected. Once its fixed you'll love the huge huge torque in all gears after 1st. Even non remapped have this and the remap should actually remove a lot of lag.

I guess its frustrating but it doesnt sound too expensive, but get an independent Alfa garage to put it on a laptop first.
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Angel know what they are doing so I would doubt that the remap is an issue - if you check the forum they get good write-ups from other users.

The plate that has been fitted to the ERG is an Alfa adption - the part number has been quoted on the forum a number of times, it restricts the exhaust gass flow back to the inlet, but if the ERG is stuck open it would still account for the lack of power even with the restrictor plate.

As I said before blank it of completely, also check your upper and lower turbo hoses - the lower one is know to get splits and holes.
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(Post Link) post #10 of 35 Old 24-09-12 Thread Starter
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Ok, so technically speaking if one were to blank off the EGR that would give you greater throttle response and less turbo lag, so why does it have the opposite effect when it's blocked with soot? Metal plate or gunk, blocked is blocked right? Am I missing something?
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When it is blocked it is normally held open which diverts the exhaust gasses into the inlet - the idea behind this is to reduce the ignition tempreture thus reducing the NOx production.
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check the 3mm vacumm hoses that control the turbo
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(Post Link) post #14 of 35 Old 03-10-12 Thread Starter
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Bought all the tools and EGR sprays and should be attempting to clean the EGR this weekend.

Can someone please explain to me the following:

1. If my EGR is indeed clogged up and kept open by all the carbon deposits, mechanically speaking why would this increase fuel consumption exactly? At the moment each time i really put my foot down for a couple of seconds I can actually see the fuel gauge needle moving mm by mm.

2. Apart from the obvious hesitation at 2000 rpm, at the same rev speeds on each gear I am hearing a very distinctive whooshing sound. So between 1800 and 2300 rpm you can hear a "whoosh.. whoosh.. whoosh" sort of like someone is brushing something. It happens at the same time as the hesitation period.. and only if I accelerate softly. I haven't been able to find any threads related to this noise, but do you think it could have something to do with the EGR being blocked?
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Sounds like the turbo hose has a spilt in (whooshing noise..) I think a hose replacement is fairly easy and don't think you have to remove the turbo itself.
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lower turbo hose check it if its got any gunk on it if it has its split, new one is £65 replace it easy job to do
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classic split turbo hose imho. Take both top and bottom hoses off, put surgical gloves (or similar) over the ends and stick em in the bath and watch for bubbles - even the smallest hole/split can create issues. Also, as mentioned, check the small bore pipes for splits. Cheap as chips to replace.
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(Post Link) post #18 of 35 Old 04-10-12 Thread Starter
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Oh Jesus, Jeremy and Clarkson.. I'm afraid I might have done a boo boo.

So I managed to remove the EGR... no blockage whatsoever but I sprayed the EGR cleaner anyway. I then also sprayed the cleaner into both pipes going in and out of the EGR valve.. which I guess was a mistake.

Now my poor baby is making this "FSHHHHHHHHHHH" sound each time the turbo kicks in.. especially on 1st and 2nd.... and she'll lost her power too :-(

WHAT HAVE I DONE!!?? I'm guessing I shouldn't have sprayed any of that **** into the the two hole things... Have I damaged her for good??
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you have a hole in your intercooler pipe/s or just tighten pipe clamps up that you have taken off
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ps are gaskets still in place??????????
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(Post Link) post #21 of 35 Old 04-10-12 Thread Starter
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Yes as far as I know I tightened everything back on properly and the gaskets are back on. I'll check tomorrow just to make sure, however don't you think it got something to do with all the Egr cleaner I sprayed into the two openings?
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whooshing noise is air escaping from a hose,a joint............
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Hey Dave.. I checked the EGR this morning and realised that I forgot to tighten the two central nuts that hold the bottom vulva-shaped pipe. All good now.

However, I still have this issue of the hesitation at 2000 rpm together with the intermittent "whoosh whoosh" (not a continuous whoosh like I had last night). It's more like a paint brushing moving back and fort against a wall. Fuel consumption also seems to be abnormally high

My mechanic test drove the car and said that he highly doubts that there is a hole in the upper of lower hoses as it would not be accelerating like it does. And it's definitely not the EGR so I'm running out of options.

Could the above three issues be related to the MAF?
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Think you might be overthinking this, is it pulling ok, do you have a good level of boost that you can feel building up.What kind hesitation is it slight or very noticeable .It could be an injector problem try putting some millers in with your diesel fuel instructions are in a full tank but for the first time double the dose it may sort your problem out.I use it all the time it will improve performance and consumption
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(Post Link) post #25 of 35 Old 05-10-12 Thread Starter
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This hesitation is not noticeable when accelerating heavily.

However when driving in town with slow acceleration, just before 2000 revs the brushing noise kicks in and there's a slight hesitation. It's the noise that's really getting to me though. There's definitely something off.
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