JTD/JTDM MCSF & other problems FIX - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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find a local alfa specialist i think LC Motors is the closest to you find it on google ring them up and ask. silicone pipes will be way over the price of rubber ones but the only thing is they will not split as easy. you will replace rubber ones every 40k miles on average but you can probs get both for around the £70 mark.
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im not sure on the vgt fault but i would guess it would be a turbo code or a mass air pressure sensor. i have never come across that so i would not like to comment
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MAF Sensor

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Originally Posted by carnon View Post
Hi, I'm having MCSF problems with my 2005 GT.
I had the classic MAF problems, including the petrol gauge bouncing up & down sowe changed the unit. The motor went back to full power but then the MCSF light came back on. Reluctantly I took the car to a dealer in Montpellier, France where I live and they discovered that the air temperature sensor was damaged too, so they changed that. The car has done almost 100,000 kms so it's not too surprising these units have come to the end of their life.
Unfortunately that is not the end of the story because the damn MCSF light keeps coming back on. The Alfa error code is P1102 but don't seem sure exactly what is the problem.
One probability is the turbo boost pressure sensor (capteur de pression de suralimentation!). Do you think I should change that & can anybody tell me how to do it?
I guess the other thing to do is to clean the EGR....
The thing is that the motor is running smoothly & there is no lack of power. It's tempting to just ignore the damn warning light until I feel a change in performance....

I have had same probs, no power till 2500 rpm, so had diagnosis, faulty MF sensor, had a Quinton Hazell fitted, so power restored, but Engine Control symbol appeared after 1 day, car goes Ok, no flat spots etc. So have had diagnostics by garage who fit the sensor & an independant Alfa specialist, who got same result the code is P0102 A MAF sensor signal I was told, & they both concluded the new MFS was faulty in some way, but I have hesitated to have an original MFS fitted due to cost. A Bosch I believe is what is needed, but having spoke to supplier of MFS they would be surprised if a new one was faulty. They are willing to take it back & return to QH, but that would leave me without a sensor till they test it.So any suggestions ,having read the list here it says for P0102 that the air mass is incorrect. so do I go for another Bosch fitting, or can it be due to another part of the system, say a cracked hose so not enough air getting to the sensor.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeneral View Post
I have had same probs, no power till 2500 rpm, so had diagnosis, faulty MF sensor, had a Quinton Hazell fitted, so power restored, but Engine Control symbol appeared after 1 day, car goes Ok, no flat spots etc. So have had diagnostics by garage who fit the sensor & an independant Alfa specialist, who got same result the code is P0102 A MAF sensor signal I was told, & they both concluded the new MFS was faulty in some way, but I have hesitated to have an original MFS fitted due to cost. A Bosch I believe is what is needed, but having spoke to supplier of MFS they would be surprised if a new one was faulty. They are willing to take it back & return to QH, but that would leave me without a sensor till they test it.So any suggestions ,having read the list here it says for P0102 that the air mass is incorrect. so do I go for another Bosch fitting, or can it be due to another part of the system, say a cracked hose so not enough air getting to the sensor.
Incorrect air quantity error could appear because of faulty EGR valve (stuck in open possition, or stuck in closed possition).
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Boxing

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Originally Posted by TheGeneral View Post
I have had same probs, no power till 2500 rpm, so had diagnosis, faulty MF sensor, had a Quinton Hazell fitted, so power restored, but Engine Control symbol appeared after 1 day, car goes Ok, no flat spots etc. So have had diagnostics by garage who fit the sensor & an independant Alfa specialist, who got same result the code is P0102 A MAF sensor signal I was told, & they both concluded the new MFS was faulty in some way, but I have hesitated to have an original MFS fitted due to cost. A Bosch I believe is what is needed, but having spoke to supplier of MFS they would be surprised if a new one was faulty. They are willing to take it back & return to QH, but that would leave me without a sensor till they test it.So any suggestions ,having read the list here it says for P0102 that the air mass is incorrect. so do I go for another Bosch fitting, or can it be due to another part of the system, say a cracked hose so not enough air getting to the sensor.
Sorry fault code is P0101 not 02.
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egr

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Incorrect air quantity error could appear because of faulty EGR valve (stuck in open possition, or stuck in closed possition).
I had the EGR stripped and cleaned, solenoid was NOT Stickin, so we dont think its that, as Ive added the fault code isP0101. No 0102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGeneral View Post
I have had same probs, no power till 2500 rpm, so had diagnosis, faulty MF sensor, had a Quinton Hazell fitted, so power restored, but Engine Control symbol appeared after 1 day, car goes Ok, no flat spots etc. So have had diagnostics by garage who fit the sensor & an independant Alfa specialist, who got same result the code is P0102 A MAF sensor signal I was told, & they both concluded the new MFS was faulty in some way, but I have hesitated to have an original MFS fitted due to cost. A Bosch I believe is what is needed, but having spoke to supplier of MFS they would be surprised if a new one was faulty. They are willing to take it back & return to QH, but that would leave me without a sensor till they test it.So any suggestions ,having read the list here it says for P0102 that the air mass is incorrect. so do I go for another Bosch fitting, or can it be due to another part of the system, say a cracked hose so not enough air getting to the sensor.
BOSCH SYSTEM READS BOSCH SENSOR anything else wont do
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Bosch system

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BOSCH SYSTEM READS BOSCH SENSOR anything else wont do
Thanks for your time replying, just to clarify are you saying that the Bosch system will not be able to read the signals from the Quinton Hazell MAF sensor, if so then I need the correct Bosch MAf sensor fitting, just so Ive got you clear before I splash another £170 + fitting!
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yes he is right they will only accept bosch sensors i have tried an insert before and just caused me problems.seems ok but error comes up. maf to high normally
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QH sensor

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yes he is right they will only accept bosch sensors i have tried an insert before and just caused me problems.seems ok but error comes up. maf to high normally
Many thanks, I do then wonder why quinton hazell bother to sell em, surely nthey should know it aint gonna work

So great to have this team of guys who know lots,
Thanks to all
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bet they wont give you a refund tho. the company i got my maf insert from would not give me a refund as their maf works fine its just the comp does not like it
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MAF refund

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bet they wont give you a refund tho. the company i got my maf insert from would not give me a refund as their maf works fine its just the comp does not like it
Hi Dave
Premier auto parts say they will certainly return to QH and I will get a refund, we shall see.

You wouldnt think any company would want bad publicity on forums etc.

Thanks again
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trust me they dont really car. most companies dont even think of alfa romeo as a proper brand.
oh guys check out the new 4c car its amazing if you have not already seen it
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4C.... oh my god! Love it!
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What happens if you blank off the EGR valve?
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Hi all,
Just my 2p worth... I too am having the "Motor Control Failure - Go To Dealer" error - can come on anywhere over 2500rpm with wide throttle openings on my 04 2.4JTDm 20V 156. Engine goes into limp home mode. On restarting, power is OK but no cruise control. Restart again and cruise is allowed. A few more restarts and MCSF goes off. Error code is P0238 - the turbo pressure circuit A high warning. Plugging in my diagnostic tool, looks like MAP is changing appropriately (reads 254/255 on wide throttle openings - looks like 255 is the max of the sensor) and have cleaned that sensor. Disconnecting the vac from the VGT solenoid yields much lower MAPs (very low at low revs) and it's almost impossible to get the MAP to go over about 160, even floored in 3rd/4th at 4500rpm... so I guess my turbo vanes are not stuck. I did take the VGT solenoid off and remove the little black box (carefully!) that looks like a relay on it. Then prise the cap off. There's a very fine mesh air filter in there, which I have cleaned out, as it was full of crap. The car runs much better since I've done that, and MCSF errors are much rarer, but still occur occasionally.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is there an easy fix? I would say that sometimes acceleration isn't smooth - it feels like there's a 'step' in the boost. Has anyone had a slightly "sticky" VGT solenoid? If there's anyone out there that has had a confirmed solenoid issue, I'd love to hear from you, with a description of how your car behaved before it was replaced.

Cheers!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch106 View Post
Hi all,
Just my 2p worth... I too am having the "Motor Control Failure - Go To Dealer" error - can come on anywhere over 2500rpm with wide throttle openings on my 04 2.4JTDm 20V 156. Engine goes into limp home mode. On restarting, power is OK but no cruise control. Restart again and cruise is allowed. A few more restarts and MCSF goes off. Error code is P0238 - the turbo pressure circuit A high warning. Plugging in my diagnostic tool, looks like MAP is changing appropriately (reads 254/255 on wide throttle openings - looks like 255 is the max of the sensor) and have cleaned that sensor. Disconnecting the vac from the VGT solenoid yields much lower MAPs (very low at low revs) and it's almost impossible to get the MAP to go over about 160, even floored in 3rd/4th at 4500rpm... so I guess my turbo vanes are not stuck. I did take the VGT solenoid off and remove the little black box (carefully!) that looks like a relay on it. Then prise the cap off. There's a very fine mesh air filter in there, which I have cleaned out, as it was full of crap. The car runs much better since I've done that, and MCSF errors are much rarer, but still occur occasionally.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is there an easy fix? I would say that sometimes acceleration isn't smooth - it feels like there's a 'step' in the boost. Has anyone had a slightly "sticky" VGT solenoid? If there's anyone out there that has had a confirmed solenoid issue, I'd love to hear from you, with a description of how your car behaved before it was replaced.

Cheers!
Look on page 1.
Might be:
- jammed VGT mechanism inside turbo (but looks like you have excluded it)
- faulty Pierburg VGT selenoid (try cleanign it: Elektrozawór VGT (overboost) - operation manual)
- blocked MAP sensor on intake manifold (try cleaning it: Astra H: 1.9 CDTi: HOW TO: Clean your MAP Sensor - Astra Owners Network Forum | MK1 - MK6 | VXR | T8 | T9 | Zafira | Astra Van)
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Thanks for that - but I'm still no further forward.

P0238 keeps coming up. Likes to come on between 2500 and 3000 rpm when I'm booting it.

** Disconnecting the VGT solenoid vac pipe to the turbo yields no boost (both when driving the car, and on FIAT ECUScan when tested stationary - stays at around 1000mBar)

** The MAP sensor gives reasonable values - at idle it reads atmospheric, and during driving the readings go up (and when the MCSF light comes on, are around 2800-2900 mBar). I have cleaned the sensor - no benefit.

** I have stripped and cleaned the VGT solenoid, and when tested in ECUScan it appears to be working

** I have cleaned the electrical connections to the MAP and VGT solenoid, including the multiplug that sits just in front of the battery


None of this has made any difference.

I've had a run with FIAT ECUScan connected. The VGT solenoid opening starts at 75% (at idle) but only goes as low as about 53% at higher revs. I assume this figure is the ECU "command" to the VGT solenoid as there are no 'feedback' sensors on the VGT solenoid to tell me what the "actual response" to the ECU command is.
While all this is going on, at idle, Desired boost and Actual boost are the same. As the revs rise, Actual boost starts to part from Desired boost, such that by aabout 3000 rpm the Actual boost is some 800mBar higher than desired. This seems to be what is triggering the MCSF warning light.

My question is this... is there anyone out there with a 20V JTDm who has had exactly the same problem and has successfully fixed it (both on the road, and on Fiat ECUScan graphing). I don't want to just start buying components in the hope they will work. It seems to me that: turbo is OK (with no vac, it produces minimal boost, as it should, so vanes not stuck), MAP OK (reads atmospheric OK and varies smartly with changes in engine speed - can these fail by "reading high"? - anyone know?), VGT solenoid - seems to be moving OK (but is it moving enough? - are the seals leaking a bit? - I don't know).

Anyone out there with a 20V that's been hooked up - what sort of readings do you get on a 'healthy' car?

Thanks for reading chaps/chapesses!
 
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I I took my car garage last week after MCSF light came on and it was diagnosed with the following:

P1175: Mulitplicative mixture correction Bank 2,

Engine speed 4120 1/min
Engine load 48%
Coolant Temp 67 C
Throttle Valve position 23%
Battery voltage 13.3V

P1172: Multiplicative mixture correction Bank 1

Engine speed 1680 1/min
Engine load 37%
Coolant temp 67 C
Throttle Valve position 10%


P0420: Catalyst system Bank 1

Too low

Engine speed 2040 1/min
Engine load 20%
Coolant Temp 59C
Throttle Valve pos 5%


Anyway he told me my exhust was blowing and I needed a new flexi pipe fitting off the Manafold, He reset Fuel mixture and we took it to a garage who fitted anew flexi pipe, Car appeared to now be running great, but yesterday warning light came back on, Took it this morning to have light turned off and he turned it off but car now running very lumpy,

Don't know what to do with car now as I don't know what is up with it, or what its going to cost to fix it, He told me when he did Diagnostics that the Lamda sensors were working as they were giving off a reading,

Any suggestions to problem and cost would be much appreciated
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Losa: Do you have any idea what might cause the temperature gauge on a 147 (1.6) to report in an absurd maner? The temperature gauge reports that the car is up to 90 in less than 1 km driving and then sits there like everything is fine, and then pegs at 130 randomly? I pull over, the car does not appear hot, and temperature is back down to 90 when I restart the car. The diagnostic suggested that the sensor was shot, so I replaced it with an after market. It is still doing the same thing! So, a mechanic replaced the thermostat, still same problem. He thought it might be water pump, but that does not really make sense and the diagnostic is still pointing to the sensor. Could it be wiring, gauge, or a faulty replacement sensor...?
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Hi to all,

I bit bullett and bought the Bosch MAF for £169 inc vat & postage, which is best I could find, and now its fitted, all is well, the car pulls even better than with the Quinton Hazell MAF, so it seems that you have to fit the matching MAF, if its a Bosch engine management system, it will only read a Bosch MAF
I got mine from Paul at Airmassmeters, helpfull guy.
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Hi all,
Update to let you all know that Premier car parts did take the Quinton Hazell MAF back, and a few weeks later I received full credit even refunded the return postage, so they are No1 in my book. GT fine still but now for sale with 52k on clock, as I just got a Brera S, 09, with 14,700 on, Alfa Red, the business, after one week Im very happy.
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Still pulling my hair out with P0238 (boost pressure high).

Disconnecting vac to my turbo has the car in 'no boost' mode, and it drives like it, so I guess the VGT vanes are not stuck.

Have renewed the MAP.

Have renewed the VGT solenoid.

Actual boost is still exceeding desired boost on ECUScan, especially as 3000rpm is approached. Does anyone know of any potential other causes of P0238? I guess boost really is too high, so the ECU is not controlling the VGT solenoid properly. I have cleaned the multiplug next to the rad that feeds the VGT solenoid, just in case.

What sensors does the ECU rely on to produce the control output voltage to the VGT solenoid? Any other sensors I should check or do folks think the turbo is just "stiff" and not altering as quick as it should. I really don't want to pay for turbo cleaning unless it really is required. Also I read something about cleaning the throttle body... anyone benefit from this?

Ta for your ideas!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch106 View Post
Still pulling my hair out with P0238 (boost pressure high).

Disconnecting vac to my turbo has the car in 'no boost' mode, and it drives like it, so I guess the VGT vanes are not stuck.

Have renewed the MAP.

Have renewed the VGT solenoid.

Actual boost is still exceeding desired boost on ECUScan, especially as 3000rpm is approached. Does anyone know of any potential other causes of P0238? I guess boost really is too high, so the ECU is not controlling the VGT solenoid properly. I have cleaned the multiplug next to the rad that feeds the VGT solenoid, just in case.

What sensors does the ECU rely on to produce the control output voltage to the VGT solenoid? Any other sensors I should check or do folks think the turbo is just "stiff" and not altering as quick as it should. I really don't want to pay for turbo cleaning unless it really is required. Also I read something about cleaning the throttle body... anyone benefit from this?

Ta for your ideas!
variable vanes sticking usually diagnosis
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The solution is so simple that I am afraid to mention it !
Use V- Power diesel or any other brand with <10 ppm sulphur

All EGR failures are due to sooth building up...
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